Suicide (2 Viewers)

[luscious-llama]

Sigh. Close thread Moderator. PLEASE!
Start a new one for dedications of sympathy towards this girls family and friends...without the discussions of the ethics behind suicide and talk of depression.... there's too much vulgarity in this one.

 

[dagwoman]

You're wrong. Often the causes of depression aren't direct and preventable, and if we were going to go by that line of reasoning you could say skin cancer isn't a disease because it's preventable.

While you're correct that a lot of treatment for depression is based on therapy etc., that's just because you're working with the brain, a very different organ to say, skin or a muscle. However, the best combination in terms of dealing with depression is antidepressants and cognitive therapy, and like you said, cancer involves more than medicine too. While some antidepressants can have side effects, almost all drugs are capable of having side effects. Antidepressants don't act as placebo: (usually) they increase the amount of serotonin in your brain, which is a chemical that makes you feel calm and have a sense of wellbeing.

And lastly, why do you refer to me by name? For that matter, how do you know my name?

 

[webby234]

Why do you insist on being an ass? You are being incredibly insensitive. Those of us saying that "you don't know Lil" are telling you to shut up. We are saying that because you don't know her, you have no idea of her situation and therefore no right to comment on her suicide.

I agree to a certain extent - which is why, while the thread was made with the kindest of intentions, I don't think it should be here.

Because you don't know the whole story, you cannot decide that anyone who commits suicide is wrong.

I think you can - you don't need to know the details of every case. Would you argue that she was right to commit suicide? Because that's what the sentence seems to suggest.

Apart from that, spare a thought for Lil's friends and family members who may come along this thread and read your comments. How do you think they'd feel with you calling Lil selfish. Imagine if it was your friend or relative?
Lil is dead, please have some respect for her and those that knew her. I suggest that if you want to continue talking about the politics of suicide, do it somewhere else. This thread really should be about sending condolences to Lil's family and friends. Please have some compassion and think about what they are going through right now.

I think the discussion has shifted off-topic, it seems to now be more about depression and suicide in general, rather than linking it to the single case. Again the intentions are good, an attempt to prevent others from committing such a tragic act. However, I accept your view and will not comment on her case apart from to give my condolences to her friends and family.

 

[syper]

Lil is dead, please have some respect for her and those that knew her. I suggest that if you want to continue talking about the politics of suicide, do it somewhere else. This thread really should be about sending condolences to Lil's family and friends. Please have some compassion and think about what they are going through right now.

QFT.

What's the point in arguing about depression when we don't even know if she had it...

R.I.P Lil

My deepest condolences go out to her family and friends.

 

[Bookie]

Why do you insist on being an ass? You are being incredibly insensitive. Those of us saying that "you don't know Lil" are telling you to shut up. We are saying that because you don't know her, you have no idea of her situation and therefore no right to comment on her suicide. Because you don't know the whole story, you cannot decide that anyone who commits suicide is wrong.

yes i can. suicide is wrong. it doesn't matter what anyone is going through - they CAN talk to people. and that message needs to get out before anyone [including you or I] starts feeling the blues later on in our lives. everyone should know that people will talk.

Apart from that, spare a thought for Lil's friends and family members who may come along this thread and read your comments. How do you think they'd feel with you calling Lil selfish. Imagine if it was your friend or relative?

I never called it selfish - quote me somehwere, i beg you.
I called it stupid - but I'll say that to all sucides in general.
I have spared a thought. I know what they would be going through would be the absolute pits. I said it in my first post on this thread, I said it on my blog - don't call me insensitive - I'm just being rational. I havent started arguments against some of those comments on my blog because of the emotional state of mind some of those people would be in. Dont judge me in that way please, I explore all the possible consequences of stuff before I say it.

Lil is dead, please have some respect for her and those that knew her. I suggest that if you want to continue talking about the politics of suicide, do it somewhere else. This thread really should be about sending condolences to Lil's family and friends. Please have some compassion and think about what they are going through right now.

Now this may sound insensitive - butthe thread subject is 'suicide', and its in the General Dicussion of the HSC. I think what I'm saying here is within the parameters of what it's about. If you're going to start a condolences thread, byall means do. I've already passed on my condolences, but this is aforum and people have started discussing.

You're wrong. Often the causes of depression aren't direct and preventable, and if we were going to go by that line of reasoning you could say skin cancer isn't a disease because it's preventable.

While you're correct that a lot of treatment for depression is based on therapy etc., that's just because you're working with the brain, a very different organ to say, skin or a muscle. However, the best combination in terms of dealing with depression is antidepressants and cognitive therapy, and like you said, cancer involves more than medicine too. While some antidepressants can have side effects, almost all drugs are capable of having side effects. Antidepressants don't act as placebo: (usually) they increase the amount of serotonin in your brain, which is a chemical that makes you feel calm and have a sense of wellbeing.

And lastly, why do you refer to me by name? For that matter, how do you know my name?

- But they are direct. Unless of course someone gets depressed over factors way outside their control [ie. someone being cut over bombings in South America], but most cases, ie abuse as it seems to be - can be handled somewhat. And I know they dont feel safe to talk about it because they may be receiving threats from the abuser - but still, they have to realise people will listen if it is serious enough to trigger depression. I see where you're coming from, but it needs to be prevented from before my people having it locked in their subconcious that they CAN talk to people.

- I didn't say antidepressants were the placebo. I said the notion of describing depression was the placebo - suggesting to the sufferer that it was a medical condition and it could be fixed through medical treatment. And if it works, go for gold.

- I do it to everyone I find names out of. Screen names sound ultra gay. And Myspace.

 

[dagwoman]

Some people don't like their information being put on public sites, but yeh, my first name's fine.

I had really bad depression earlier this year for no apparent reason other than that I had chemicals out of balance, and put up with it until my mother dragged me to the doctor. Now I'm on antidepressants and all is sweet. After the HSC I'll be going off them, because I don't think I need them any more.

I do generally agree with a lot of what you say though, not regarding your views on suicide, but hey.

 

[Bookie]

but was there a cause for your depression [no details required, just a yes/no]
because if it was no, i dont think you could class it as depression could you?

 

[madcat939]

I just dont understand the "you dont know lil" comments.

No, I did not know Lil, and I'm sure she was an awesome girl.

That still doesn't change the fact she committed suicide. Anyone who commits suicide is wrong. Those of you claiming that I/anyone else "didnt know lil" - what are you trying to say? Suicide was the right way out?

Well done fucknuts.

Complain on my blog thank you.



oh my

edit: off topic - but this lolzors deserves to get pWn3d.
1. you will see him. wont be hard.
2. you will not smack the shit out of him.
3. your use of grammar even with abbreviations is really bad.
4. russia's developing, columbians been takin them lines, afghanistan and usa were best mates and they still are
5. world is full of hatred because of your attitude.
6. oh wait, he did infact get a source which has sources of its own - unlike your invalid statement from your arse.
7. his name is ashton jones.
8. for some reason, a guy like you typing about aguy with an iq around 150 who actually makes politically correct comments backing them up with sources some reason seems to make me smell iron.
9. not anyone can edit wikipedia. i was told i don't have an account so i cant.

lets slow down here.
ure basically dragging on the issue. no i'm not going to argue back because i'm not the going to be the one spreading hatred clearly like u just did. Making ure personal opinions.
what the hell is pWn3d? r we playing chess?
we're on the wrong topic.
From the start i think we should recongnise the death of this fellow hsc student someway?
any suggestions apart from mine

 

[Bookie]

lets slow down here.
ure basically dragging on the issue. no i'm not going to argue back because i'm not the going to be the one spreading hatred clearly like u just did. Making ure personal opinions.
what the hell is pWn3d? r we playing chess?
we're on the wrong topic.
From the start i think we should recongnise the death of this fellow hsc student someway?
any suggestions apart from mine

No, we are playing internets and we are discussing on a forum the subject of suicide. If thats not how you want it, Go incessantly look at her myspace which you're publicising for no apparent reason and fill yourself up with emotions for no other reason than to burden yourself more.

fake edit: oh wait, brogan already said that.

 

[yal14h]

Personally, I find the other student who passed away due to cancer as a real tragedy, because they stood no chance. This chick could've done anything and everything to solve her problems, but she disregarded the preciousness of life and threw it all away. She stood a chance- the cancer patient didn't.


The above was the only comment I made on Lil, the rest were on suicide in general.

I still stand by what I said. I have suffered depression and managed to pull myself out of it, with the help of a close friend.
I have no sympathy for anyone that commits suicide, as I said, it's the easy way out. If I empathise with anyone here, it's the people that cared about her.
She hurt them more than anyone else, and that's why suicide is a selfish fucking act.

 

[sasquatch]

Look to those that i have pissed off:
I appogilize to an extent, because what enranged me was that chick comparing depression to cancer...

To those who keep refering to depression as a "chemical inbalance":

Clinical depression was originally considered to be a chemical imbalance in transmitters in the brain, a theory based on observations made in the 1950s of the effects of reserpine and isoniazid in altering monoamine neurotransmitter levels and affecting depressive symptoms.[1] Since these suggestions, many other causes for clinical depression have been proposed.

Also to those who called me heartless:

Just because i got pissed at someone committing suicide, and said that they are selfish, etc, doesnt mean im heartless. How often do you hear about people dying on tv, the radio, from friends, etc. I bet at each instant you dont go "oh i express my condolances to her and her family". That also reinforces my point about "showing-off".. what need would anyone have to say "i express my condolances....blah blah" HERE in a fucken student forum.. It's quite unlikely that her family wont come here, and even if they did, it wouldnt mean much to them, having RANDOM people that don't even know her say they feel sorry for there death.

Also, if it is "unselfish" for a person to commit suicide - reason being that they were "mentally unaware" of the impact of their death, etc. Then can you say by the same ethical viewpoint that someone mentally unstable, who believes that say his family is trying to kill him, for him to act upon his "mental impression" and in a manner of self-defence, kill off his family? I'd bet if you all heard a news report: "A man believed to be suffering of clinical depression, murdered three of his family members today in a supposed act of self-defence, before committing suicide.It is believed that his clinical depression caused him to believe that his family was plotting to kill him.". I dont think any of you would go "I express my condolances to him and his family". That guys a fucken dickhead, and is responsible for the deaths of his family. I know plain suicide isnt as extreme as this, but you cant label someone "unselfish" just because they had a "mental condition", because if their mental instablity had altered their perception of reality, you could say that guy that i just talked about (saying if he didnt commit suicide), that he should be punished for his acts because he was "mentally instable" because of his depression. I know that he would get leaverage on his acts probably - maybe being commited to a mental hospital, rather than jail... but im sure alot of you would say "THATS FUCKEN BULLSHIT, FRY HIS MOTHER FUCKEN ASS", so any of you with bias views, please think about that carefully.

Also id like to reinforce that ok, i have no experienced things such as sexual abuse, i have been "physically abused" to an extent.. nothing really extreme though, ive suffered "a lowered state of mind" from experiencing rejection (ha ha i bet people will make fun of me..but thatd show how biased you are.. is MY suffering ok because i have said things that offeneded people..what if i decided to commit suicide, i bet nobody would care cuz i seem like an arsehole..i dont care if anybody would care anway..i know my family/friends/etc would..yeah whatever.. but that was along time ago anyway), experienced grieving, so yeah really i have not experienced anything "that" bad. But lets talk about my family history:

My grandfather was placed in a home in Italy from a very young age (about 5). His mother rejected his existance, some of his brothers/sisters were kept at home, others thrown in a home. To those who dont know what a home is, it is kinda like an orphanage, but its mainly for those whom parents dont want to look after their kids. Our family suspects he faced many forms of abuse their, because of my grandfather's "mental state". Also my grandfather had to deal with the loss of his mother, she was gased to death, by Nazi dickheads. His father was killed in World War 2. He saw his brother fall to his death, when climbing a mountain. My grandfather also severed as a mercenary in Africa to the various war things they had there - more specifically the congo war. Ok to those who say "thats nothing" - get fucked. Never did my grandfather ever contemplate suicide. In the end he was "blessed" with various instances of cancer throughout his body.. which resulted in him dying.

I could go on for other people in my family, what they have had to face, etc. But yeah i think you would all get the point. NOBODY ever in my family has committed suicide, regardless of the shit they have had to face. I'm not religious, but i still think that commiting suicide is bullshit.. and now i kinda forgot my point. Oh yeah..dont compare depression to cancer...

 

[9h4xe8s]

ok couples of things on this.

Yes, depression is a selfish choice due to the way it effects those around you, but can you really call it a selfish choice when the actual choice to commit suicide may not have come about rationally? Depression effects the calculations that occur in your head whenever you make a decision as you may be under the influence of heightened emotions due to a chemical imbalance etc, the actual rationalisation that you undergo to make the choice is completely different to a similar choice that you'd make if you were not depressed. It's like persecutin someone for their actions while there on the piss, except they never drank any alcohol, they were tied to a chair and had it poured down ther throat, they had no choice in the first place whether to get pissed or not.

You may say that she could talk to someone, but some people do not have a strong enough character to bring up the courage to actually do this. Opening up is not an easy thing for many people to do because their afraid. You could say that she was selfish for not helping herself and thus that leading to suicide and hurting those around her but if you look at this argument it's not really justified.

What other people have said about the pressures of the HSC coming from your environment is true, it is not the board of studies that is at fault so don't blame them, its society and its expectations of today's youth thats at fault. This, sadly, we can really do nothing about. Even if your direct environment(parents, friends etc) is controlled, the external environment of societies standards will still impact on you.

You guys have gotta stop all the negative bullshit about her being selfish because you really can't understand at all EXACTLY WHY she committed suicide. A young girl with plenty of life left in her is gone, and that is sad, but thats also life. My condolences go out to her family and friends.

 

[rickem]

http://community.boredofstudies.org/...ml#post2600641

Give it a break.

 

[tako]

Look to those that i have pissed off:
I appogilize to an extent, because what enranged me was that chick comparing depression to cancer...

To those who keep refering to depression as a "chemical inbalance":


Also to those who called me heartless:

Just because i got pissed at someone committing suicide, and said that they are selfish, etc, doesnt mean im heartless. How often do you hear about people dying on tv, the radio, from friends, etc. I bet at each instant you dont go "oh i express my condolances to her and her family". That also reinforces my point about "showing-off".. what need would anyone have to say "i express my condolances....blah blah" HERE in a fucken student forum.. It's quite unlikely that her family wont come here, and even if they did, it wouldnt mean much to them, having RANDOM people that don't even know her say they feel sorry for there death.

Also, if it is "unselfish" for a person to commit suicide - reason being that they were "mentally unaware" of the impact of their death, etc. Then can you say by the same ethical viewpoint that someone mentally unstable, who believes that say his family is trying to kill him, for him to act upon his "mental impression" and in a manner of self-defence, kill off his family? I'd bet if you all heard a news report: "A man believed to be suffering of clinical depression, murdered three of his family members today in a supposed act of self-defence, before committing suicide.It is believed that his clinical depression caused him to believe that his family was plotting to kill him.". I dont think any of you would go "I express my condolances to him and his family". That guys a fucken dickhead, and is responsible for the deaths of his family. I know plain suicide isnt as extreme as this, but you cant label someone "unselfish" just because they had a "mental condition", because if their mental instablity had altered their perception of reality, you could say that guy that i just talked about (saying if he didnt commit suicide), that he should be punished for his acts because he was "mentally instable" because of his depression. I know that he would get leaverage on his acts probably - maybe being commited to a mental hospital, rather than jail... but im sure alot of you would say "THATS FUCKEN BULLSHIT, FRY HIS MOTHER FUCKEN ASS", so any of you with bias views, please think about that carefully.

Also id like to reinforce that ok, i have no experienced things such as sexual abuse, i have been "physically abused" to an extent.. nothing really extreme though, ive suffered "a lowered state of mind" from experiencing rejection (ha ha i bet people will make fun of me..but thatd show how biased you are.. is MY suffering ok because i have said things that offeneded people..what if i decided to commit suicide, i bet nobody would care cuz i seem like an arsehole..i dont care if anybody would care anway..i know my family/friends/etc would..yeah whatever.. but that was along time ago anyway), experienced grieving, so yeah really i have not experienced anything "that" bad. But lets talk about my family history:

My grandfather was placed in a home in Italy from a very young age (about 5). His mother rejected his existance, some of his brothers/sisters were kept at home, others thrown in a home. To those who dont know what a home is, it is kinda like an orphanage, but its mainly for those whom parents dont want to look after their kids. Our family suspects he faced many forms of abuse their, because of my grandfather's "mental state". Also my grandfather had to deal with the loss of his mother, she was gased to death, by Nazi dickheads. His father was killed in World War 2. He saw his brother fall to his death, when climbing a mountain. My grandfather also severed as a mercenary in Africa to the various war things they had there - more specifically the congo war. Ok to those who say "thats nothing" - get fucked. Never did my grandfather ever contemplate suicide. In the end he was "blessed" with various instances of cancer throughout his body.. which resulted in him dying.

I could go on for other people in my family, what they have had to face, etc. But yeah i think you would all get the point. NOBODY ever in my family has committed suicide, regardless of the shit they have had to face. I'm not religious, but i still think that commiting suicide is bullshit.. and now i kinda forgot my point. Oh yeah..dont compare depression to cancer...

Hahahaha dickhead.

 

[Bookie]

good post sasquatch. your grandfathers a great example of why suicide is stupid.

 

[rickem]

uh... sorry thats the wrong link...

 

[rickem]

http://community.boredofstudies.org/3/non-school/124991/your-thoughts-suicide-tragedy-selfish.html

Please discuss this here, and leave Lil's thread alone...

 

[Bookie]

Hahahaha dickhead.

are you referring to yourself?

i just did a search of your 20 most recent posts and you seem to display the IQ of someone very intelligent but with an attitude of an absolute fuckwit.

 

[tako]

are you referring to yourself?

i just did a search of your 20 most recent posts and you seem to display the IQ of someone very intelligent but with an attitude of an absolute fuckwit.

Absolute fuckwit is an overstatement. I'm actually just fucking awesome.

 

[priesty]

http://community.boredofstudies.org/3/non-school/124991/your-thoughts-suicide-tragedy-selfish.html

Please discuss this here, and leave Lil's thread alone...

Listen to the man.
Have some respect please.