stupid UAC rules (1 Viewer)

[TheKey]

I reserve the right to be corrected!

Anyway, it seems that UAC allows you to enter some preferences for University courses way back, months before you even do your HSC exams, back before you even know what the hell UAI is, not to mention what the courses are about and how university is structured.

So if you fail to apply to get your UAC number ID thing and make a few random, or at best uninformed choices in choosing a few courses by 7th December (as arbitrary as anything as far as I can see) your choices will be disregarded in the Main Round of Offers. Now my question is why the hell is that?

If a person who made random choices before doing their exams is allowed to change their preferences by early January why should their application be considered for the main round of offers while the person who waited till they got their HSC results and their UAI before applying wont be considered?

It seems absurd, so I hope I am wrong and someone can correct me here. Otherwise what possible reason would UAC have for doing this? Money comes to mind.

Why not simply issue everyone the right to select and choose their preferences for free and with a closing date that is after the UAI comes out. Then, simply charge those that wish to apply to University an administration fee. Why the hell are they allowed to implement this stupid system to make money with these seemingly random late application dates, which thereby force everyone to pay some "Processing" fee to enter random preferences months before you even do the HSC exams. The result is that this forces everyone to pay that $22 in order to have the choice to enter a university because if one should wait till they got their UAI before they apply they have to pay 7 times that and yes, the best part is their application wont even be considered in the main round.

As I said, I hope I am wrong and that someone could point this out, otherwise one must ask whether this system is about making money or enabling students to enter into a university. If its the former, why the hell is nothing being done about this?

 

[o.bi.sess]

Eh, mostly because UAC is not a government body. They are a privately owned corporation who converts HSC marks into a rank that universities base the entrances into their programs on. And they sure as hell aren't going to do it free.

*helpless shrug*

What can you do? It's the way the world works these days.

 

[anallah!!!]

Anyway, it seems that UAC allows you to enter some preferences for University courses way back, months before you even do your HSC exams, back before you even know what the hell UAI is, not to mention what the courses are about and how university is structured.

Ignorance is bliss.

INSHALLAH!

 

[MortImmortelle]

I agree with you about the processing fee..It should be a admissions fee if anything. But i guess they get more money this way

Still i dunno, not like we can do anything about it -.-'

 

[TheKey]

What can you do? It's the way the world works these days.

Still i dunno, not like we can do anything about it -.-'

Well we probably wont have to do anything about it anyway. It seems that universities themselves are slowly trying to implement systems to enable students to enter into courses below the "official" UAI cutoff with those bonus UAI point schemes for performing well in certain HSC subjects.

Its only a matter of time before the UAI becomes irrelevant and universities choose students according to their individual HSC marks in specific subjects and not UAI. Looking further ahead, HSC may itself become irrelevant. Maybe we should just go to the old European system where each university will make you do an exam for the course your applying for and make offers to the first X number of students.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

I reserve the right to be corrected!

Anyway, it seems that UAC allows you to enter some preferences for University courses way back, months before you even do your HSC exams, back before you even know what the hell UAI is, not to mention what the courses are about and how university is structured.

So if you fail to apply to get your UAC number ID thing and make a few random, or at best uninformed choices in choosing a few courses by 7th December (as arbitrary as anything as far as I can see) your choices will be disregarded in the Main Round of Offers. Now my question is why the hell is that?

If a person who made random choices before doing their exams is allowed to change their preferences by early January why should their application be considered for the main round of offers while the person who waited till they got their HSC results and their UAI before applying wont be considered?

It seems absurd, so I hope I am wrong and someone can correct me here. Otherwise what possible reason would UAC have for doing this? Money comes to mind.

Why not simply issue everyone the right to select and choose their preferences for free and with a closing date that is after the UAI comes out. Then, simply charge those that wish to apply to University an administration fee. Why the hell are they allowed to implement this stupid system to make money with these seemingly random late application dates, which thereby force everyone to pay some "Processing" fee to enter random preferences months before you even do the HSC exams. The result is that this forces everyone to pay that $22 in order to have the choice to enter a university because if one should wait till they got their UAI before they apply they have to pay 7 times that and yes, the best part is their application wont even be considered in the main round.

As I said, I hope I am wrong and that someone could point this out, otherwise one must ask whether this system is about making money or enabling students to enter into a university. If its the former, why the hell is nothing being done about this?

By the time you get to the end of year twelve, it's pretty much assumed that A) you know what you want to do at university and B) you're smart enough to plan ahead get your preferences in early. If you haven't done either by the date, you don't belong at university.

 

[TheKey]

By the time you get to the end of year twelve, it's pretty much assumed that A) you know what you want to do at university and B) you're smart enough to plan ahead get your preferences in early. If you haven't done either by the date, you don't belong at university.

Don't be stupid. Who assumes what is not even relevant. To say that you have to be "smart" to get your preferences early just illustrates your ignorance and no doubt enables this stupid system to go on.

My point is that we are ALL pressured to get our preferences in early by UAC and by doing so we are all pressured to think that we MUST go to uni and ultimately feel like failures if we cant make it into the desired course or uni in general. The result is not only $$$ to UAC but many people going to uni that shouldn't and probably why so many people fail in their first year and drop out and end up feeling like losers.

BTW, I went from engineering/science -> engineering/arts -> engineering/commerce, I didn't know what i wanted to do when i entered into my first course. I continued to search for what interests me for several years while at uni and many people I know that went through uni became interested in their respective fields/majors only after they elected to try them.

Another point, not all schools are the same. In mine they explained nothing about the UAI or the HSC. This information was assumed i suppose. When my friend asked our school career adviser about doing medicine just prior to the HSC exams he was told that if he was really interested in doing medicine at uni he would have known that he had to do some UMAT exam or something several months earlier and therefore now cannot apply for medicine.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

Don't be stupid. Who assumes what is not even relevant. To say that you have to be "smart" to get your preferences early just illustrates your ignorance and no doubt enables this stupid system to go on.

It's not a case of being "smart", it's a case of using common sense, which - based on my experiences so far in this thread - is remarkably uncommon. Tell me why you wouldn't want to get your preferences in early?

My point is that we are ALL pressured to get our preferences in early by UAC and by doing so we are all pressured to think that we MUST go to uni and ultimately feel like failures if we cant make it into the desired course or uni in general. The result is not only $$$ to UAC but many people going to uni that shouldn't and probably why so many people fail in their first year and drop out and end up feeling like losers.

UAC process tens of thousands of university applications each year. It was in the neighbourhood of 66,000 back when I did mine in 2004 and has pobably risen. Can you really blame UAC for asking everyone to get their preferences in as soon as possible to make their job easier so the can make offers? And yes, it's getting increasingly important to go to university, even if the value of a degree is getting less and less. A degree shows you're both competent and capable at your chosen field.

BTW, I went from engineering/science -> engineering/arts -> engineering/commerce, I didn't know what i wanted to do when i entered into my first course. I continued to search for what interests me for several years while at uni and many people I know that went through uni became interested in their respective fields/majors only after they elected to try them. The sheer virtue of the fact that you've gone through three degree changes in your four years at uni seaks volumes for itself.

If you're arguing that people don't know what they're going to do until they get to university, you're in a Catch-22. You can't get into university without some idea of what you want to do, but you won't know what to do until you get to university.

Another point, not all schools are the same. In mine they explained nothing about the UAI or the HSC. This information was assumed i suppose. When my friend asked our school career adviser about doing medicine just prior to the HSC exams he was told that if he was really interested in doing medicine at uni he would have known that he had to do some UMAT exam or something several months earlier and therefore now cannot apply for medicine.

The onus is on YOU to take the initative. You're sixteen and seventeen years old when you're in year twelve. The school cannot run around rying to make you happy. You should go to them and ask and yes, common sense dictates that you ask months in advance. But you're arguing that this should all happen at the business end of the year just before exams which not only puts pressure on people who are trying to study, but makes it impossible to absorb all the information and make an informed decision in the month or so between exams and the closing date for preferences.

What is your problem with thinking ahead a little? You know you have to make some major choices, you know there's a lot of information out there and you know there isn't much time to make the right decision? Tell me how thinking ahead is a bad thing here. You have more time to work out your options, more time to find out as much as you an and mre time to think about what you're doing, where you're going and how you're going to get there. If you can't work that much out on your own, honestly, why bother even going through year eleven and twelve? People who aren't thinking about ther future usually end up as the thirty-something day manager down at Burger King who cleans the floors and asks "Hey, kids, where are all the cool parties this weekend?"

But, no! You want to tear down the establishment just to make you happy an probably because other people figured it out when you didn't. It's like penis envy, but their common sense is the object of your jealousy. Down with UAC! Down with the establishment! We'll hold a rally in the Domain next Tuesday. You go print off the flyers and I'll contact Rage Against the Machine.

 

[TheKey]

Tell me why you wouldn't want to get your preferences in early?

Because you may not wish to be under that pressure to now have to live up to the expectations of getting into a course that you randomly choose 3 months before you even sit for the HSC exam. Because maybe one would like to take some time AFTER the HSC results come out to assess what one wanted to do with ones life and whether or not one even wished to go to a University.

UAC process tens of thousands of university applications each year. It was in the neighbourhood of 66,000 back when I did mine in 2004

I wonder why, thousands * $22 = money in their pocket. Maybe there wont be that many people if they allowed people to apply after the results are known.

Can you really blame UAC for asking everyone to get their preferences in as soon as possible to make their job easier so the can make offers

Yes I can. Why the hell should I worry about making their job easier? We are not here for their benefit, UAC is meant ot be here for our benefit, namely students who wish to extend their university education. Not ALL students.

If you're arguing that people don't know what they're going to do until they get to university, you're in a Catch-22.

I wasn't, I was saying that MOST people (in my experience) don't have a full 100% picture of what they want to do before they choose their course. Even if the course is known, exact major, and ultimate path is not determined till later.

But you're arguing that this should all happen at the business end of the year just before exams which not only puts pressure on people who are trying to study, but makes it impossible to absorb all the information and make an informed decision in the month or so between exams and the closing date for preferences.

I never said this! I propose (and its nothing more than an opinion) that you make your preferences and decisions AFTER you get you results, not before or in between exams. Thats just stupid and I never said that.

What is your problem with thinking ahead a little? You know you have to make some major choices, you know there's a lot of information out there and you know there isn't much time to make the right decision? Tell me how thinking ahead is a bad thing here.

I am starting to think your completely misunderstanding everything as you are now repeatedly making false representations of what I was saying.

Once again I never said thinking ahead is bad where the hell did you get that from? There is PLENTY of time to work out what you want to do after your HSC exams. Thats the time you research everything and think ahead. Finally after you get your results you just asses those options you researched and make your course selection if you choose to go to a university or you search for a job.

If you recall I was against UAC FORCING YOU TO ENTER RANDOM COURSE SELECTIONS MONTHS BEFORE YOUR HSC EXAMS IF YOU WANTED TO LATER HAVE THAT OPTION TO GO TO A UNIVERSITY.

You want to tear down the establishment just to make you happy.

[other student's] common sense is the object of your jealousy

UAC makes me feel angry, ignorant people like you make me sad. So no, this thread is mostly bringing me down...but I am glad you brought up common sense!


Mary is in year 12. Her parents feel that Mary should achieve the best she can in her HSC and hopefully get into a university into a course she likes. They are good intentioned and do not pressure Mary to get X UAI points.

Mary does not know yet what she would like to do but everyone around her is entering some sort of "wish list" of preferences. She decides that she doesn't know whether she should even pursue University let alone which course to decide on and ultimately resolves to put this process on hold so as not to distract her from doing her best on her HSC.

She doesn't want the added pressure of having to live up to reaching the UAI required of some randomly chosen course that merely sounds like something she might be interested in but wont know for sure until she researches more. And she doesn't want to waste time researching this now as the HSC exams are looming in just a few months, and she knows that the subsequent holidays will be long and universities will host those open days much later as well.

Mary does the HSC and expects that she will do well. She starts researching courses of various universities and finally has a rough idea of what she wishes to do. The UAI is out! Mary did well, she is 10 UAI points above the last years cutoff for the course she wants to do.

She tells her family and they are all excited unitil they discover that:

1. UAC requires you to pay >$100 to apply now, but fine she pays and applies.
2. Its too late to be considered in the main round of offers, despite the fact that Marys friends still have time to change their preferences to whatever they wish.

I guess this must be the common sense all you students posses, the fact that YOU wont get an offer in the main round if you apply to university after you receive your UAI, when it is the UAI which is the determining factor in you getting the offer in the first place.

Its really like Poker, where you pay the small blind before receiving your cards. When did UAC become the dealer who can now prevent you from entering a university unless you pay the small blind. If you cant see that then theres really no point in arguing with you.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

Because you may not wish to be under that pressure to now have to live up to the expectations of getting into a course that you randomly choose 3 months before you even sit for the HSC exam. Because maybe one would like to take some time AFTER the HSC results come out to assess what one wanted to do with ones life and whether or not one even wished to go to a University.

I'm still failing to see how you think enrolling early is a bad thing. Thinking about it before the exams is as good a time as any. Sure, it might not work out; if it doesn't, you can always withdraw or decline the offer or whatever the hell it is you want to do. The point is that you've been in school for the past thirteen years. If you haven't made up your mind about what you want to be doing before crunch time comes around, you've got some serious issues. Why is this even of any concern to you? You're a fourth-year university student!

I wonder why, thousands * $22 = money in their pocket. Maybe there wont be that many people if they allowed people to apply after the results are known.

If people were allowed to apply after their results are known, it will bring the system to a halt because everything will have to be set back a few months to accomodate the newcomers. The current system may be flawed, but it is better than your proposal: this way, people have something to aim for. They know what they need to get done and they'll be able to do it. Under your system, people will think "whatever will be, will be" and leave it at that. They'll decide afterwards. But the time taken for the decision process will be the sae as it is now, putting everything back by months. The universities, on the other hand wouldn't be wanting to adjust their academic year and so people would end up finding out if they're even going to university two weeks in advance. And while that might not sound like a problem to Sydney students, it is for places like UNE where people stay on-campus: that kind of arrangement often takes months to sort out. Months that the colleges won't have.

Yes I can. Why the hell should I worry about making their job easier? We are not here for their benefit, UAC is meant ot be here for our benefit, namely students who wish to extend their university education. Not ALL students.

Why should you worry about making their job easier? Because it makes your life easier. The sooner you send your preferences off, the sooner they process them and the sooner they get back to you which means you'll know exactly what you're doing. Again, as a fourth year uni student, why is this of any concern to you?

I wasn't, I was saying that MOST people (in my experience) don't have a full 100% picture of what they want to do before they choose their course. Even if the course is known, exact major, and ultimate path is not determined till later.

You have absolutely no idea as to how the world works, do you? If you wait to get every last shred on information before you make a decision, the problem is going to blow right by you. Yes, you have to make that kind of decision regarding uni preferences. But you also have to makethem in everyday life. In the workplace, at home, everywhere. The ability to quickly assess a situation and pass judegment on it is invaulable and one of the things that makes you more employable. You apparently don't have it - odd, considering that you're doing both engineering and commerce - which means you're royally fucked.

I never said this! I propose (and its nothing more than an opinion) that you make your preferences and decisions AFTER you get you results, not before or in between exams. Thats just stupid and I never said that.

No, you didn't say it. But in this universe, cause follows effect. Under the current system, people will spend all year studying, with some of that time devoted to working out uni preference in time for the period when preferences are open. If you move the window of opportunity back, you'll naturally move the time in which people act with it. And the end result is that you're piling stress up on them right around the exas. No, they won't be able to choose until after exams, but that won't stop people. Right now, they're stressing over whether they'll get the marks they need. Under your system, thy won't even have a clue of what marks they need to do. Again, I'm a little concerned as to why you're whinging about this.

I am starting to think your completely misunderstanding everything as you are now repeatedly making false representations of what I was saying.

Once again I never said thinking ahead is bad where the hell did you get that from? There is PLENTY of time to work out what you want to do after your HSC exams. Thats the time you research everything and think ahead. Finally after you get your results you just asses those options you researched and make your course selection if you choose to go to a university or you search for a job.

Three months is not "plenty of time". It took me the better part of a year to work out what I wanted to do, not three months.

If you recall I was against UAC FORCING YOU TO ENTER RANDOM COURSE SELECTIONS MONTHS BEFORE YOUR HSC EXAMS IF YOU WANTED TO LATER HAVE THAT OPTION TO GO TO A UNIVERSITY.

IS IT REALLY SO DIFFICULT TO DO THAT!? IT TAKES FIVE MINUTES OF YOUR LIFE TO LOG ON AND SIGN UP FOR A RANDOM COURSE.

Mary is in year 12. Her parents feel that Mary should achieve the best she can in her HSC and hopefully get into a university into a course she likes. They are good intentioned and do not pressure Mary to get X UAI points.

Mary does not know yet what she would like to do but everyone around her is entering some sort of "wish list" of preferences. She decides that she doesn't know whether she should even pursue University let alone which course to decide on and ultimately resolves to put this process on hold so as not to distract her from doing her best on her HSC.

She doesn't want the added pressure of having to live up to reaching the UAI required of some randomly chosen course that merely sounds like something she might be interested in but wont know for sure until she researches more. And she doesn't want to waste time researching this now as the HSC exams are looming in just a few months, and she knows that the subsequent holidays will be long and universities will host those open days much later as well.

Mary does the HSC and expects that she will do well. She starts researching courses of various universities and finally has a rough idea of what she wishes to do. The UAI is out! Mary did well, she is 10 UAI points above the last years cutoff for the course she wants to do.

She tells her family and they are all excited unitil they discover that:

1. UAC requires you to pay >$100 to apply now, but fine she pays and applies.
2. Its too late to be considered in the main round of offers, despite the fact that Marys friends still have time to change their preferences to whatever they wish.

I guess this must be the common sense all you students posses, the fact that YOU wont get an offer in the main round if you apply to university after you receive your UAI, when it is the UAI which is the determining factor in you getting the offer in the first place.

Its really like Poker, where you pay the small blind before receiving your cards. When did UAC become the dealer who can now prevent you from entering a university unless you pay the small blind. If you cant see that then theres really no point in arguing with you.

You said it yourself: UAC only require you to "pay the small blind" if you don't sign up in the first place. I believe there is no fee required to sign up before the closing date in the first place. Think of it as an expression of interest; you're putting your hand up to say "yes, I'm considering university". Yes, most students are like this Mary of yours: they're still weighing up their options. But unlike Mary, they're keeping their option open by signing up before the due date. You can change your preferences at any time; when I did my sign-up, I opened the UAC guide and put down the first course that appeared alphabetically, something like Arts at ANU. I didn't want to go anywhere near ANU, but I wanted to let UAC know I was going to finalise my preferences later on.

Your signature says you're doing engineering/commerce at UNSW. I'm willing to bet you needed a decent UAI to get into that course. So unless you're blessed with incredible luck, you probably went to a decent school. And ifyour school is that good, they would have offered careers advice. Hell, I got it in years 10, 11 and 12 and my school was ranked in the low 120s in 2004. I find it hard to believe you didn't get it. Mary should have gotten it in the same way.

You are not "being forced" to do anything by UAC unless you make a mistake. And since this is real life, we pay for mistakes in some way. The system that is in place is designed to streamline everything at the business end. Imagine how much the system would slow down if UAC had to process the inundation of late applications free of charge at the same time as they're compiling the UAIs and issuing offers to universities. For someone doing engineering/commerce, you're displaying vast amounts of stupidity in not realising that this would simply slow the system down. You are only being penalised for being late. If you're caught speeding, you're issued a fine and you don't pay it on time, you usually have to pay more. It's the same here: if you're not in by the due date, you have to pay the fine.

You say there's not point arguing with me, but that's oly because you're arguing semantics. Your system does not work.

 

[TheKey]

I'm still failing to see how you think enrolling early is a bad thing.

Are you seriously retarded? Did I say its a bad thing? YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT AGAIN! If you have your whole life worked out please send a uni application ASAP, who is stopping you.

I am and always was ONLY talking about those who don't want to apply early, that is before their UAI comes out. Thats ALL. Under the current system, you CANT!

Why is this even of any concern to you? You're a fourth-year university student!

Because I was in this position some years ago and I cant honestly remember if this change came recently or not, but I do recall paying the late fee and wondering why this system is so fucked up. It should be a general concern to everyone.

The current system may be flawed, but it is better than your proposal: this way, people have something to aim for. They know what they need to get done and they'll be able to do it. Under your system, people will think "whatever will be, will be" and leave it at that. They'll decide afterwards.

You have to love that logic . Why do you need to pay and enter random courses to have something to aim for? Why not do the best you can. Or if you must have concrete aims, take 2 minutes and look at UAC guide, check out last years UAI cutoffs and there your aim. So wheres the need to pay money and enter random courses?

If you can, tell me what is so sinister with waiting for your UAI to come out before making your decision to apply to a University? And please, don't try and say its too hard for UAC to process everything.

You have absolutely no idea as to how the world works, do you?

No but I'm sure your the expert, Il be sure to look you up when I need your expertise on this point.

IS IT REALLY SO DIFFICULT TO DO THAT!? IT TAKES FIVE MINUTES OF YOUR LIFE TO LOG ON AND SIGN UP FOR A RANDOM COURSE.

I wasn't sure, but I think its now safe to say that you are retarded and I don't know why you are committing so much energy to this thread when you are repeatedly missing the point.

One last time for the extra slow and this time lets ignore everything else so people dont get confused again:

UAC does not allow you to enter preferences for a University which will be counted in the main round of offers AFTER you get your UAI!​

Your signature says you're doing engineering/commerce at UNSW. I'm willing to bet you needed a decent UAI to get into that course. So unless you're blessed with incredible luck, you probably went to a decent school. And ifyour school is that good, they would have offered careers advice. Hell, I got it in years 10, 11 and 12 and my school was ranked in the low 120s in 2004.

No I went to a shit hole of a high school where my careers adviser did nothing. I didn't get the UAI I needed, I got into engineering @ UNSW and transfered later thanks to my university marks. But again this is totally missing the point.

Imagine the worst school, no adviser, no nothing! The worst case scenario. You are alone, you do your HSC, you get your UAI and find out you cant apply now, its too late, it wont count in the main round.

Thats the fundamental fault of the system I am concerned about.

I believe there is no fee required to sign up before the closing date in the first place.

Your belief system would be wrong then, cause there is a fee, called a "processing fee". I agree it should be there, but it should be the same after you get your UAI.

Imagine how much the system would slow down if UAC had to process the inundation of late applications free of charge at the same time as they're compiling the UAIs and issuing offers to universities.

Ok retard, where did I say this? When did I say it should be free of charge? Why bother arguing when you don't even know what argument your arguing against? I proposed just that after you get your UAI you can apply, obviously the processing charge would still apply. The problem for UAC is that it would need to be much larger for them to make profit as I imagine not as many people would be so keen to apply after their results are known.

If you're caught speeding, you're issued a fine and you don't pay it on time, you usually have to pay more. It's the same here: if you're not in by the due date, you have to pay the fine.

For arguments sake, lets say I agree with the fine that UAC imposes on people applying late...which I don't and we will come to that.

If you can answer this, lets say I pay the late fee, I enter my courses, and finalise them by 5th January like everyone else. Guess what, my application wont be in the main round while other who applied before will. WHY?

Now to your speeding analogy, if you break the speed limit you get a fine. Cause and effect. If you don't pay it on time, you pay more....well...that because YOU HAD TO PAY THE ORIGINAL FINE.

Thats my whole point with UAC, why the fuck are you FORCED to pay the original amount to enter random courses...and then if you don't your fined if you change your mind later. But then even you can can swallow that, not to be counted in the main round of offers is simply ridiculous.

You are not "being forced" to do anything by UAC unless you make a mistake.

Yes you are being forced...but I just cant repeat myself again, go look at the point of this whole thread...summarised nicely in the first post.

For someone doing engineering/commerce, you're displaying vast amounts of stupidity in not realising that this would simply slow the system down

Why is this even of any concern to you? You're a fourth-year university student!

Again, as a fourth year uni student, why is this of any concern to you?

The ability to quickly assess a situation and pass judegment on it is invaulable and one of the things that makes you more employable. You apparently don't have it - odd, considering that you're doing both engineering and commerce - which means you're royally fucked.

Again, I'm a little concerned as to why you're whinging about this.

On a more personal note...why do you feel the need to attack me for voicing my opinion and then argue against me when you seem to misunderstand the point I am arguing? You asked why this bothers me I am a 4th year student....why doesn't this bother you?

Maybe if you can step away from how the world and universe works, you could try and read what I actually wrote and then voice your opinion to the contrary or in agreement. I am not saying I am correct, I wanted more opinions, but you just oppose for the sake of it and without even understanding my argument. Hence my need to call you a retard out of frustration with your inability to read closely enough to understand the point.

The ability to quickly assess a situation and pass judegment on it is invaulable and one of the things that makes you more employable. You apparently don't have it

I have that ability, the trick is knowing when to use it. You obviously used it in reading my thread, read the title "Stupid UAC rules", thought this guy is whining about nothing, probably some loser who didn't get an offer and thought you'd swoop in for the kill.

Well I am already in uni, I am not doing this for me as hard as that may be for you to comprehend. This is meant to be a general thread to alert that UAC has become such an unquestionable force that it is able to preclude students from gaining an offer in the main round if they wait till they have their UAI results.

And lastly, I couldn't care less whether "my system" works or not. I thought of it on the go as I was writing, something that was logical to me. I'm not trying to invent a new system here...merely illustrate on the shortcomings of the current one.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

I see this is going nowhere. You're just arguing semantics, changing the wording of your sentences each time and putting words in my mouth which, by the way, I really don't appreciate you doing. I have given a counter-argument to every argument you have made, even if you cannot see it.

 

[TheKey]

I have never changed anything you wrote hence the use of a quote, you have however assumed something wrongly every time you tried to make a counter argument. You were making a counter argument to an argument that you misunderstood.

I wont bother trying to prove this to you as its obviously useless but if your willing read everything over and you will see it.

Yet in all your counter arguing...you haven't bothered to answer my simple question..which was the whole point of my initial post.

​

What do you have to say on UAC having become such an unquestionable force that it is able to preclude students from gaining an offer in the main round if they should choose to wait till they have their UAI results?


What then was your point in writing so much crap, just to disagree for the sake of it?

 

[Season]

UAC is only asking you to register and put down any random course, you can change those preferences up until whenever, they just need the time to process your details and put you in the system.

The reason why they won't consider you for the main round if you apply late is because that processing your specific application isn't on their priority list- all the people who applied on time are. They are busy processing admissions for all those people who did apply on time. They don't have the time to make sure the application is done properly in time for the main round. So they push it aside. Unfair, yeah but they have work to do, and there was plenty of warning.

Even if you did go to a crap school you would have recieved letters from UAC giving the UAC pin out and all that info that is given out. I moved from probably one of the worst schools to a nice private school and all those kids at this rural country time still applied on time. They had the info they knew what to do, so I have a very hard time believing that it was all the school's fault.

As for not knowing about the UMAT, I knew about the UMAT when I was in year 7 because that's how excited I was about medicine, one of the reasons medicine is so intricate is because its a test to see how interested you really are. The process for admission is absoutely insane and I truly believe it is a test to see how keen you are. The UMAT is only the beginning

 

[TheKey]

The reason why they won't consider you for the main round if you apply late is because that processing your specific application isn't on their priority list- all the people who applied on time are. They are busy processing admissions for all those people who did apply on time. They don't have the time to make sure the application is done properly in time for the main round. So they push it aside. Unfair, yeah but they have work to do, and there was plenty of warning.

I suppose that is fair, people who apply first can get their application processed before those applying later. But if person #1 registers on time and person #2 applies after receiving their UAI why does person #2 have to pay all those late fees? If you already charge person number #2 extra money shouldn't that go towards enabling that person to still be in the main round then? How do they excuse the late fee if it doesn't buy you anything extra on top of the normal processing charge? Its essentially a penalty for not applying early, you are effectively forced to apply early then...before your properly informed and ready in my opinion.

Even if you did go to a crap school you would have recieved letters from UAC giving the UAC pin out and all that info that is given out. I moved from probably one of the worst schools to a nice private school and all those kids at this rural country time still applied on time. They had the info they knew what to do, so I have a very hard time believing that it was all the school's fault.

Its not about placing blame on anyone for one being late or not knowing, simply that the system is designed to force university preferences onto you before you are ready for it. Well at least thats my opinion and from my own experience.

I mean isn't it logical that you do your exam, you get your result, you assess your options, you make a choice.
Not, you make a random choice now in order to subsequently have the option in the event that you have the necessary results to exercise and make use of that option.

As for not knowing about the UMAT, I knew about the UMAT when I was in year 7 because that's how excited I was about medicine, one of the reasons medicine is so intricate is because its a test to see how interested you really are. The process for admission is absoutely insane and I truly believe it is a test to see how keen you are. The UMAT is only the beginning

I guess thats expected, if your excited and keen you naturally find out by asking early. The career adviser wasn't wrong in principle that if your were serious about medicine you would have known about UMAT and what to do on your own. I was trying to say that it was nevertheless his job to inform us of this. After all what is the point of a career adviser if not to inform?


I am annoyed that I cant remember in my time whether or not you could apply after you obtain your UAI and still be considered in the main round. I think you could have and this is a recent thing by UAC...but I cant remember for sure. If it is a recent thing its just inexcusable.

 

[Season]

I suppose that is fair, people who apply first can get their application processed before those applying later. But if person #1 registers on time and person #2 applies after receiving their UAI why does person #2 have to pay all those late fees? If you already charge person number #2 extra money shouldn't that go towards enabling that person to still be in the main round then? How do they excuse the late fee if it doesn't buy you anything extra on top of the normal processing charge? Its essentially a penalty for not applying early, you are effectively forced to apply early then...before your properly informed and ready in my opinion.

I see what you're getting but even processing your application for the second round is work for them, they have more time at that stage- but not much, and they definitely don't have much time to process extra applications. So they are taking on extra work in an extremly busy period. That is what the late fee is for, the fact that you aren't eligible for the main round is just simply because they don't have the time. If it was just one or two applications it probably wouldn't matter but I'm guessing it would be more like a hundred or two.

From the talks we got earlier this year I also got the impression the late fee was meant to be a deterrent to not apply late as well.

Its not about placing blame on anyone for one being late or not knowing, simply that the system is designed to force university preferences onto you before you are ready for it. Well at least thats my opinion and from my own experience.

I see what you're getting at but I still disagree. Applying early is only asking you whether you might like to go to university next year, or the year afterwards. That's all its asking, its not asking for preferences, a career changing decision or any of that nosense, just some vague idea whether you think you might like to go to university. These days getting into university isn't actually that hard, I've heard of people getting 47 and getting in. I truly believe that anybody could get a 75, and thats enough to get you into an arts course at a decent university.


You can change your preferences as soon as you get your UAI, there is a 3 week window in which to do that, in that time there is lots of people you can talk to about your options. My brother thought he was going to get a UAI of 75, he ended up getting 94 and accordingly he changed his preferences, it was actually really easy for him.

I mean isn't it logical that you do your exam, you get your result, you assess your options, you make a choice.
Not, you make a random choice now in order to subsequently have the option in the event that you have the necessary results to exercise and make use of that option.

That would be nice, but its simply not practical, there isn't enough time for that to happen. All you have to assess before your results is whether you might like to go to university in this year or next, I don't think that's a difficult decision. If in doubt- apply.

 

[TheKey]

Thanks for replying finally theres a normal conversation in here.

I agree with everything you said but I still just would like to see this system be able to accommodate those that apply after your UAI is available. You said it yourself, your brother thought he got 75 but ended up with 94...thats sounds pretty extreme but he still had some options with 75. Would he have applied if he told you he thought he would get 40 UAI?

If a person expects 40 and ends up with 60 they go from virtually no chance to some chance. It is that person who then might not apply at all initially and then will end up disappointed when they discover they could have made it if they applied earlier when they though they had no chance.

As irrational as it may be, I think most of us will try to underestimate ourselves in the eyes of others when we do exams so that we get "pleasantly surprised" in the eyes of others when we get higher marks than we thought. I guess I do that sometimes, I think your brother did that too (no way could he honestly expect so little and achieve so much). But people expecting in the 40UAI range would try to get the HSC pressure off their backs by arguing how they'll do TAFE and its all worked out, how they wont "need their HSC results" for that but secretly would be wishing for the best they can achieve. So as not to contradict their argument they then wont apply to uni early and will subsequently find out the hard way that once the result is known, when they are "allowed" to show their true intention and their aim to go to uni, they dont have that option anymore. (As this is what happened to someone I know I guess its what prompted me to start this thread)

I see now that in a way I am asking the system to accommodate irrational people, but this would be only if UAC did the early applications free of charge, which it does not, so its not entirely clean here. If time really is such a problem for UAC, open the applications 2 years ahead, after all many people choosing to do years 11 and 12 are aiming for University. Enable everyone to apply for free and then charge a fee to those that actually decide not to withdraw their application and decide to proceed to get the offer. I guess I just cant accept that this is the best system that we can have as long as people who have the sufficient marks can be blocked from entering uni.

I agree with you that given the way the system is designed here it seems unreasonable that one would wait to enter some random course earlier to save all this trouble later. But is it not even more unreasonable that one does not have the option to apply after the marks are determined?

 

[jaaaaay]

i don't see what all the fuss is about. it takes 5 minutes to log in and do your thing.