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Steve Irwin dead (2 Viewers)

ihavenothing

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I can see where Germaine is coming from but FFS the guy just died, she is such a spiteful cunt to this nation doesn't she know all countries have their good and bad and that he was such an icon to children. She is a clever woman but uses her mind for all the wrong reasons.
 

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NO.... Germaine Greer is a fuckin disgrace.

She had no credibility prior to Irwins death, and with comments like all those who left floral tributes to him at Australia zoo are idiots or states that his death was revenge from the animal world... you continue to lack any form of credibility. I enjoyed the final paragraph in the newspaper on her:

"Australians loved [Irwin]. Who will mourn Greer when she keels over in her mud-brick cottage in West Buggeryshire?"
 

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Germaine's generally considered to be a bit nutty, to put it as mildly and politely as possible. If you've ever read any of her books, you can probably see why she's considered to be that way.

But, do youse think that her points - that he really didn't seem to give the animals space, that he really shouldn't have had his baby in the croc enclosure (and that he bloody well should have ADMITTED after the fact that he was wrong), and that he was getting perks from Howard - make any sense?

I do think the last implication is distasteful, although the first has been raised on this very thread already.
 

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Personally, I thought Germaine Greer's article was warranted and I agree with it.

I don't think it was appropriate releasing it so soon after Irwin's death though, because the family is still going through very recent grief.
 

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Well all I can say is that the male world will get their revenge upon Greer one day...

She epitomises the arrogant and self-indulged world of academia.. she is entitled to her views, but to convey them following the passing of the respective person is not only distasteful but is highly disrespectful.

Any man would have been able to voice the issues to Irwin himself, and provided him with the ability not only to explain his actions, but to validate his points. However, I did forget one minor detail here. Greer is not male, will never be male, and the hair underneath her armpits won't get her any closer..
 

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frog12986 said:
Well all I can say is that the male world will get their revenge upon Greer one day...

She epitomises the arrogant and self-indulged world of academia.. she is entitled to her views, but to convey them following the passing of the respective person is not only distasteful but is highly disrespectful.

Any man would have been able to voice the issues to Irwin himself, and provided him with the ability not only to explain his actions, but to validate his points. However, I did forget one minor detail here. Greer is not male, will never be male, and the hair underneath her armpits won't get her any closer..
Well I'm not sure about the male world getting its revenge but I think the world might have got its revenge already. She's 60 + alone, childless and very, very bitter.
 

Jiga

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Personally, I thought Germaine Greer's article was warranted and I agree with it.
No it wasnt at all. The man is gone now, those comments arent constructive, spiteful people have had 15 years or so of his career to nitpick his actions... get over it and remember him for the many many many good things he did during his life, not the few mistakes that everyone makes in their lives. You would have to be an absolute disgrace of a human being to kick someone when their down like she essentially has.

But, do youse think that her points - that he really didn't seem to give the animals space, that he really shouldn't have had his baby in the croc enclosure (and that he bloody well should have ADMITTED after the fact that he was wrong)
Like I said above, he did so much more... of course at times he got close to animals, unfortunately thats what he had to do to spark interest in animals and increase the profile of conservation... which in turn would help those particular animals! As for the baby incident, it wasnt his best moment, but its widely agreed that the camera angle made it look alot worse... he was the best part of 5m away from the animal most of the time, and as a professional who dealt with crocodiles for most of his life I think I will trust his judgement over people like Ms Greer or other media commentators.
 
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Schoolies_2004 said:
No it wasnt at all. The man is gone now, those comments arent constructive, spiteful people have had 15 years or so of his career to nitpick his actions... get over it and remember him for the many many many good things he did during his life, not the few mistakes that everyone makes in their lives. You would have to be an absolute disgrace of a human being to kick someone when their down like she essentially has.
Death doesn't wipe a person's slate of faults clean, and as others have said (in the non-school threads) Germaine Greer has long been critical of the notion of Australia that Steve Irwin supposedly represented.

The timing may have been poor and the dismissal slightly simplistic, but Greer's comments are still as valid as those from anyone else seeking to comment on Irwin's legacy in a time of rampant public grief.

---

Greer's sting in the tale: a true agent provocateur

Matt Price from the Australian on the above (with more to come this weekend).
 

Jiga

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Death doesn't wipe a person's slate of faults clean, and as others have said (in the non-school threads) Germaine Greer has long been critical of the notion of Australia that Steve Irwin supposedly represented.

The timing may have been poor and the dismissal slightly simplistic, but Greer's comments are still as valid as those from anyone else seeking to comment on Irwin's legacy in a time of rampant public grief.
Well I said previously... who cares about his faults, these were far outweighed by what he has done for Australia and the world in relation to conservation and even tourism. And her comments are not constructive, they are merely used so that she can get herself back in the spotlight... forgettting everything, a great Australian has died, using his mistakes in life as a medium by which to get into the spotlight is disgraceful... this is why people are having a go at her, not neccesarily because she has a go at a great man, but also because its obvious what her motives are!
 
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luscious-llama

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Schoolies_2004 said:
Well I said previously... who cares about his faults, these were far outweighed by what he has done for Australia and the world in relation to conservation and even tourism. And her comments are not constructive, they are merely used so that she can get herself back in the spotlight... forgettting everything, a great Australian has died, using his mistakes in life as a medium by which to get into the spotlight is disgraceful... this is why people are having a go at her, not neccesarily because she has a go at a great man, but also because its obvious what her motives are!
Exactly. I don't recall her saying anything to his face when she was alive, so why does she have to insult him posthumously?
 

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luscious-llama said:
Exactly. I don't recall her saying anything to his face when she was alive, so why does she have to insult him posthumously?
Because she is reacting to the completely over-the-top public reaction. It is largely the events that have transpired after his death (namely people painting him as some sort of quintessential Aussie icon or hero) which have irritated her, and some others.
 

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Schoolies_2004 said:
Well I said previously... who cares about his faults, these were far outweighed by what he has done for Australia and the world in relation to conservation and even tourism. And her comments are not constructive, they are merely used so that she can get herself back in the spotlight... forgettting everything, a great Australian has died, using his mistakes in life as a medium by which to get into the spotlight is disgraceful... this is why people are having a go at her, not neccesarily because she has a go at a great man, but also because its obvious what her motives are!
Her motives aren't really relevant. The real issue is whether there is any merit in the content of her assertions.
Schoolies_2004 said:
No it wasnt at all. The man is gone now, those comments arent constructive, spiteful people have had 15 years or so of his career to nitpick his actions... get over it and remember him for the many many many good things he did during his life, not the few mistakes that everyone makes in their lives. You would have to be an absolute disgrace of a human being to kick someone when their down like she essentially has.
Again, it is not a reaction merely to Irwin, but the placing of him on a pedestal to typify him as the ideal Australian. Hence it is the public sentiment which she is reacting to, and the ideas that that sentiment represents -- not merely Irwin's personal faults.
 

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MoonlightSonata said:
Because she is reacting to the completely over-the-top public reaction. It is largely the events that have transpired after his death (namely people painting him as some sort of quintessential Aussie icon or hero) which have irritated her, and some others.
You don't think he is a "quintessential Aussie icon"?

The guy's done a lot more than she has, I'm sure. Perhaps the media have stretched it rather but he was a true sentiment to Australian culture. An "icon", or so I reckon.
 

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runtlocks said:
You don't think he is a "quintessential Aussie icon"?

The guy's done a lot more than she has, I'm sure. Perhaps the media have stretched it rather but he was a true sentiment to Australian culture. An "icon", or so I reckon.

Well firstly, Germaine Greer is probably one of the most known feminists, accademics of our time. Whether you agree with her often or not (I don't), it shows more of your own ignorance to claim she has 'done less' than Steve Irwin.

He may now be an Icon, I don't think he was much of one before he died, I think it's true that (as Steve said) alot of Australians were embarassed by his antics. He actively promoted conservation and tourism for Australia, using his celebrity for positive things (as most celebrities do). But he also made a living filming himself harassing animals in their environment so that he can get the people watching excited, he effectively went out and harassed them much like they were in a circus, knowing that this was what would work effectively for the viewers instead of the usual... stand back and watch the animals from a distance. I think it's fair to say this might have given the wrong impression to people watching about how to treat animals.

He was also overly cocky, the stunt with his child (no matter how expert he was with crocodiles) was an irresponsible thing to show people and it showed imo a disrespect for what he was doing.

I personally think he was a nice bloke, I wouldn't claim to be at all better than him and attacks in the public arena aren't really what a nice person would do. But when you see such idolitry perhaps it is fair to make such swipes?
 

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Not-That-Bright said:
Well firstly, Germaine Greer is probably one of the most known feminists, accademics of our time. Whether you agree with her often or not (I don't), it shows more of your own ignorance to claim she has 'done less' than Steve Irwin.
My bad. Irwin was undoubtedly more important to the public than she was, if that counts as credibility for you. Though through this little stunt, she's probably worthless now to the vast majority of the Australian public, and more around the world.

He may now be an Icon, I don't think he was much of one before he died, I think it's true that (as Steve said) alot of Australians were embarassed by his antics. He actively promoted conservation and tourism for Australia, using his celebrity for positive things (as most celebrities do). But he also made a living filming himself harassing animals in their environment so that he can get the people watching excited, he effectively went out and harassed them much like they were in a circus, knowing that this was what would work effectively for the viewers instead of the usual... stand back and watch the animals from a distance. I think it's fair to say this might have given the wrong impression to people watching about how to treat animals.
Which is fair enough. Though can you, or anyone else make the claim that Steve did not love animals? He understood the risk of his work, he mingled "harrassingly" with potentially dangerous animals and in the end he was killed by one.
Steve was an Australian icon, full stop. Maybe we don't see him much on Australian tv, but he was widely popular in the United States, renowned for going on famous talk show programs like Jay Leno and Conan O' Brian. His national identity is what made him so widely popular. Not to mention that campaign that he did, was it G'Day LA or something like that?
He was also overly cocky, the stunt with his child (no matter how expert he was with crocodiles) was an irresponsible thing to show people and it showed imo a disrespect for what he was doing.
True
I personally think he was a nice bloke, I wouldn't claim to be at all better than him and attacks in the public arena aren't really what a nice person would do. But when you see such idolitry perhaps it is fair to make such swipes?
Absolutely not. She's going in it in such a silly way. How does attacking the man after he has died supposed to subvert the opinion of the public on him? I'd hate to bring up a tired old point, but let's not forget the grieving family and friends that cared for him. Through this "overbloated" media facade as Greer sees it to be, the deep feelings of the Australian public for Irwin as well as the outpour from the rest of the world have come out, we see how much the Australian public loved the man. This may be (probably is) manipulation by the media's behalf, but surely she knows by making these comments she would upset others and direct attention. Which she has done. Maybe she should've thought this through, as she is now going to be really, really unpopular
She chooses to have this opinion on Steve? Fair enough. My main quarrell is the timing she has used and the way she tries to ruin his name. She could've easily kept it for herself and left it after the media circus faded, which probably still would generate commotion, but there is a large base of grieving fans, a family, friends and politicians to consider.
Now, if her motif was to garner attention from such a tragedy as much of the public are saying then mission accomplished.
 

Not-That-Bright

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runtlocks said:
My bad. Irwin was undoubtedly more important to the public than she was, if that counts as credibility for you. Though through this little stunt, she's probably worthless now to the vast majority of the Australian public, and more around the world.
Well by that criteria paris hilton, jennifer lopez and 50 cent are some of the most important people in the world. As for it being a stunt, I don't see it. These comments seem in line with how she usually is, the current event was quite popular so she commented on it. The media made it into a big issue, she comments on many things.


Which is fair enough. Though can you, or anyone else make the claim that Steve did not love animals?
No I'm sure he loved them, not that it matters.

He understood the risk of his work, he mingled "harrassingly" with potentially dangerous animals and in the end he was killed by one.
I don't think he did appreciate the risk or if he did, he didn't show it in his shows. He would harass these animals when he didn't need to in order to make his point, running around to make it very exciting for the viewers. Perhaps you could argue this was a means to an ends, but it doesn't change that the means was rather distasteful.

Absolutely not. She's going in it in such a silly way. How does attacking the man after he has died supposed to subvert the opinion of the public on him?
It's not necessarily a PR campaign to subvert public opinion, it is merely to be critical so that those of us willing to not be totally dismissive of other ideas have a different perspective. The only reason IMO that she 'attacked' him after his death was due to the idolitry, it is a response to a movement which she felt was wrong.


I'd hate to bring up a tired old point, but let's not forget the grieving family and friends that cared for him. Through this "overbloated" media facade as Greer sees it to be, the deep feelings of the Australian public for Irwin as well as the outpour from the rest of the world have come out, we see how much the Australian public loved the man.
I don't think it necessarily shows how much the Australian public loved him. When a celebrity dies it gives you a chance to be upset, even if you didn't care about them or know them/of them very well. It's a good excuse to let out your emotions.

This is not to say that people aren't genuinely upset, but I can think of an occasion when a teacher at my school died in an accident. Everyone in the school was crying, even those who had never met/heard of the person, it wasn't any real grief due to the person dying - more a chance for them to be upset about something, anything.


This may be (probably is) manipulation by the media's behalf, but surely she knows by making these comments she would upset others and direct attention. Which she has done. Maybe she should've thought this through, as she is now going to be really, really unpopular.
She has never been a popularist.


She chooses to have this opinion on Steve? Fair enough. My main quarrell is the timing she has used and the way she tries to ruin his name. She could've easily kept it for herself and left it after the media circus faded, which probably still would generate commotion, but there is a large base of grieving fans, a family, friends and politicians to consider.
It is directly because of the way the media circus has been, the way people have reacted, that I imagine she may have felt the need to be critical. There is little point being critical of someone after their death if they maybe didn't lead a perfect life, but there is no wide-spread PR campaign to make them look like an angel. If however, there is such a PR campaign, maybe it makes you think such an action is required.
 

runtlocks

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Not-That-Bright said:
Well by that criteria paris hilton, jennifer lopez and 50 cent are some of the most important people in the world. As for it being a stunt, I don't see it. These comments seem in line with how she usually is, the current event was quite popular so she commented on it. The media made it into a big issue, she comments on many things.
Important to the public, yes. Irrespective to what you or I think of these people, there are going to be those grieving for them, as well as those with that rolls-eyes good riddance kind of approach. Perhaps Greer is respected for her intellectual output and the work she did with feminism but admiration for her accomplishments and admiration from the general public for Irwin are completely different things. As for the stunt comment, figure of speech kind of thing :(

I admit I was never a true fan of Steve before he died, though I did recognise him as a true Aussie icon and I was glad someone like Steve would represent our country. At least he wasn't peddling the idea of gang warfare, drugs, alcohol as the rest of the "role models" (50 cent perhaps) were doing. I was genuwinely sad upon hearing of his death.
No I'm sure he loved them, not that it matters.
Indeed it does. His love for animals is part of his persona, exemplified in the way he would tussle and hassle animals.
I don't think he did appreciate the risk or if he did, he didn't show it in his shows. He would harass these animals when he didn't need to in order to make his point, running around to make it very exciting for the viewers. Perhaps you could argue this was a means to an ends, but it doesn't change that the means was rather distasteful.
The guy owned a zoo. He handled animals for a living. I'm not defending his antics but his zoo was well known all around the world. Cruelty to animals? I think it would be a bit of a stretch to call it that, wouldn't it? Like I said before, he loved animals and never meant any ill to them.
His technique may be over the top but that's just his way of teaching. The positive influence of his love for animals has and will continue to influence the children of today. Though I'm fully aware that Greer acknowledges this in her publication.
It's not necessarily a PR campaign to subvert public opinion, it is merely to be critical so that those of us willing to not be totally dismissive of other ideas have a different perspective. The only reason IMO that she 'attacked' him after his death was due to the idolitry, it is a response to a movement which she felt was wrong.
In this case I think she went to far, grieving Aussie community, family blahh blahh
I don't think it necessarily shows how much the Australian public loved him. When a celebrity dies it gives you a chance to be upset, even if you didn't care about them or know them/of them very well. It's a good excuse to let out your emotions.
Irwin gained the respect of the common Australian. What about the flowers and the notes left from the public at the zoo after he died? I think it's fair to say that the public saw Steve as the friendly going Australian larrakin, he was a good family man. Would you say the same kind of outpouring would happen if, say, Dave Hughes was to die tragically, nevermind the "media circus"?
It is directly because of the way the media circus has been, the way people have reacted, that I imagine she may have felt the need to be critical. There is little point being critical of someone after their death if they maybe didn't lead a perfect life, but there is no wide-spread PR campaign to make them look like an angel. If however, there is such a PR campaign, maybe it makes you think such an action is required.
What, do you think she's fearful of his influence? Perhaps she was never a popularist like you said, but is she the jealous type? Steve was nothing short of a hero in Australia, and as someone put bluntly before, no one will be crying when Greer passes on.
 

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The guy owned a zoo. He handled animals for a living. I'm not defending his antics but his zoo was well known all around the world. Cruelty to animals? I think it would be a bit of a stretch to call it that, wouldn't it? Like I said before, he loved animals and never meant any ill to them.
It doesn't detract from the fact that he did basically go around pissing off heaps of animals so he could get good footage for his tv show.

Irwin gained the respect of the common Australian. What about the flowers and the notes left from the public at the zoo after he died?
I don't really get that. How much did the common Australian know steve erwin? He was some guy who said crikey and handled alot of animals to most Australians. I really don't think pre-death he had the 'respect' of the common Australian at all, the respect which appears afterwards seems to be somewhat a revisioning about who he was and more-so a celebration of national pride, we've clung onto his death really although he was the most significant cultural icon modern Australian people had.
 

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Not-That-Bright said:
It doesn't detract from the fact that he did basically go around pissing off heaps of animals so he could get good footage for his tv show.
True, but I'lll defend this by saying what I said earlier. His method of teaching was very much rough and aggressive towards animals which he did bother, but his heart was with his love for them and the will to teach those and perhaps influence others with his passion. Animals would react appropriately, no doubt he has had injuries in the past by them but what really matters, to me anyway, is the fact that if Steve was to get hurt by an animal this way then he would'nt desire to hurt the animal back. He showed consent for the natural order and mechanisms of the animals he handled and was surrounded by. In turn by dealing with potentially dangerous animals he got killed by one, I think people should've seen it comming but it does come as a shock because of the abruptness of the event.
I don't really get that. How much did the common Australian know steve erwin? He was some guy who said crikey and handled alot of animals to most Australians. I really don't think pre-death he had the 'respect' of the common Australian at all, the respect which appears afterwards seems to be somewhat a revisioning about who he was and more-so a celebration of national pride, we've clung onto his death really although he was the most significant cultural icon modern Australian people had.
True, but isn't the loss of one of our great ambassadors sad for you as well? Aside from his ridiculous "stunt" with the crocodile and his child, Irwin was known to be a great family man, his children and his wife loved him, which is something the Australian public could relate to.
 

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Someone had the guts to say it:
Death becomes an excuse to savage 'elites' - now that's nasty

SMH - September 8, 2006
By Clive Hamilton


THE extraordinary reaction to Steve Irwin's death suggests he occupied a special place in the Australian psyche. But it's not the one his eulogisers imagine. It's hard to see how Irwin's approach to wildlife can help to foster respect for the natural environment and its animal inhabitants when the latter are treated as a spectacle for public amusement.

The contrast with David Attenborough, who approaches creatures with an attitude of respect verging on reverence, is striking. Always as unobtrusive as possible, Attenborough communicates a quiet sense of wonder that makes viewers feel humble.

If we can imagine Attenborough making a documentary titled Ocean's Deadliest, Irwin's last project, he would have kept a respectful and prudent distance from every creature he encountered, deadly or otherwise.

With Irwin's high-octane clowning the creatures became stage props for gee-whizzery. It's the difference between an old-fashioned zoo, like the one Irwin owned, where the animals are poked, prodded and laughed at, and a wildlife reserve in which animals blend with their natural environment and humans are kept at a distance.

Irwin created a new genre of documentary called "nature nasty" which rejects attempts to portray animals in their natural environment going about their usual activities. Instead, it goes in search of the most dangerous, poisonous and bizarre and provokes animals into extreme behaviour.

It's hard to see how presenting a sort of freak show can cultivate a conservation ethic; indeed, it promotes an oddly 19th-century view of an alien world of dangerous beasts, one that, when I was a boy, led red-blooded Australians to believe that swerving to run over a snake on the side of the road was a public duty.

Irwin's death provided a trigger for a gratuitous outpouring of hatred directed at the "elites" who found his antics embarrassing, especially when they were represented as authentically Australian. In the present political climate every event is turned by right-wing cultural warriors into an excuse to attack the imagined enemies of John Howard.

But, if we are honest, the vitriolic attacks on Irwin's real and imagined critics are rooted in guilt. Whenever Irwin provoked a croc to open its jaws and lunge we were all excited by the prospect that the beast would get him, just as we watch car races anticipating a crash. The filmmakers understand that it is the frisson of danger that makes these shows popular. The close call is the money shot and any real injury would be replayed over and over.

Now Irwin has met the grisly end that excited us, we feel responsible.

In this turmoil of guilt and grief, what a relief it was to find a real target for bitterness in the form of Germaine Greer, whose only mistake was poor timing. Along with a thousand letter writers, the author John Birmingham went into a frenzy of abuse in a newspaper article, calling Greer a bitchslapping, "poorly sketched caricature of a harridan", "an unwashed and wretched bag lady" and a "feral hag". Oh, and worst of all, "childless".

Infected by Irwin's enthusiasm, Birmingham seriously compared his death to the assassination of John F. Kennedy, suggesting he now sits on a cloud with the late president and Princess Di.

It makes one wonder what our country has come to when an accomplished author can compare a slapstick TV celebrity to one of America's greatest presidents. It's the new face of the cultural cringe - we canonise anybody who makes it in the US or Britain no matter how lowbrow the performer.

For years the owners of Irwin's TV programs, which were highly successful in the US, would not show them in Australia because they believed Australians would ridicule him and turn off in droves. They were right then, but Australia has changed.

Although his antics would have taught few of his fans a conservation ethic, Irwin was generous in using the wealth he accumulated for private conservation purposes. And for all of his popularity he apparently was not struck by the star virus.

Irwin's brand of conservation is one that conservative governments feel comfortable with. His emphasis on individual responsibility takes the pressure off government. And no powerful interests are threatened by it. Only public ignorance, solved by watching Irwin's TV programs, stands in the way of saving the animals.

This is why Howard has been so full of praise for his work. The Irwin circus distracts us from the otherwise conspicuous failures of environmental policy over the past decade.

Dr Clive Hamilton is the executive director of the Australia Institute.
 

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