So, will YOU be donating money to the richest economy in the world? (1 Viewer)

[Not-That-Bright]

Yes New Orleans has been lobbying for a stronger system for a long time now and they have recieved nothing. This has been an ongoing battle for them for at least the past decade (saw former mayor talking about how it was an issue he pressed, and his father who was the mayor before him pressed).

 

[nwatts]

They made it very clear that u had to leave nwatts...



Why should a country have jets that can match those of Australia if they cannot feed their own people?

Yea... because they'd rather spend it on their military.

So it seems. Stupid people for not leaving. I guess it's the selfish, "individualistic" American mentality I despise more than the actual Americans!

 

[supercharged]

Why should a country have jets that can match those of Australia if they cannot feed their own people?

Yea... because they'd rather spend it on their military.

What's with all these unsubstanciated claims? What jets? Indonesia has a pretty small cheapo airforce. And most people in Indonesia may be poor but they can feed themselves, it isn't Rwanda for fuck sakes.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

.... The indonesian air force has F-16's.. not some "small cheapo airforce". You need to apply your logic "america spends money on military shit that could have been used for this disaster" to other countries. i.e. "indonesia spends money on military shit that could have been used for this disaster".

But you're not going to do that because you just hate America.

 

[supercharged]

.... The indonesian air force has F-16's.. not some "small cheapo airforce". You need to apply your logic "america spends money on military shit that could have been used for this disaster" to other countries. i.e. "indonesia spends money on military shit that could have been used for this disaster".

But you're not going to do that because you just hate America.

Indonesia military spending:
Military expenditures
Dollar figure $1 billion (FY98/99)
Percent of GDP 1.3% (FY98/99)


American military spending:

Total $437.111 Billion
3.7% of GDP (2003)

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2003 the United States spent approximately 47% of the world's total military spending of US$956,000,000,000

The current 2005 United States military budget is larger than the military budgets of the next twenty biggest spenders combined.


So $431.111 Billion Vs $1 Billion in defence, who has more money to spare for aid?

 

[Generator]

Update your figures, supercharged.

 

[nwatts]

"So $431.111 Billion Vs $1 Billion in defence, who has more money to spare for aid?"

You must consider the size of each nation's economy.

Ie, you're completely off the track.

 

[supercharged]

U.S. Military Spending

The United States, being the most formidable military power, it is worth looking at their spending.

The U.S. military budget request for Fiscal Year 2006 is $441.6 billion. (This includes the Defence Department budget and funding for nuclear weapons activity of the Department of Energy Budget. It does not include other items such as money for the Afghan and Iraq wars ($49.1 billion for Fiscal Year 2006), or Homeland Security funding ($41.1 billion for Fiscal Year 2006), for example.)

For Fiscal Year 2005 it was $420.7 billion
For Fiscal Year 2004 it was $399.1 billion.
For Fiscal Year 2003 it was $396.1 billion.
For Fiscal Year 2002 it was $343.2 billion.
For Fiscal Year 2001 it was $305 billion. And Congress had increased that budget request to $310 billion.

This was up from approximately $288.8 billion, in 2000.
Compared to the rest of the world, these numbers are indeed staggering.

In Context: U.S. Military Spending Versus Rest of the WorldConsider the following:

The above sources compare the given fiscal year budget request with the latest figures for other countries, which are sometimes two years old. Still using those statistics for other countries, however, a comparison can be made here of the US Fiscal Year 2004 spending against other equivalent data:

The US military budget was almost as much as the rest of the world’s.
The US military budget was more than 6 times larger than the Russian budget, the second largest spender.
The US military budget was more than 30 times as large as the combined spending of the seven “rogue” states (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) who spent $13 billion.

It was more than the combined spending of the next fourteen nations.
The United States and its close allies accounted for some two thirds to three-quarters of all military spending, depending on who you count as close allies (typically NATO countries, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan and South Korea)
The seven potential “enemies,” Russia, and China together spent $134.2 billion, 34% of the U.S. military budget.

Some of the above statistics come from organizations such as the Center for Defence Information, and the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation. This second one, for example has a section on Highlights for fiscal year 2006 budget request. It includes a tabulation of top 55 countries in terms of their spending, which has been produced as a graph here:

Military spending in 2004 ($ Billions, and percent of total) Country Dollars (billions) Percentage of total
Source: U.S. Military Spending vs. the World, Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliefration, February 7, 2005

Notes:

Figures are for latest year available, usually 2004. Expenditures are used in a few cases where official budgets are significantly lower than actual spending.
* 2003 Figure.
** Joined NATO in March 2004.
Source uses FY 2006 for US figure. I have used 2004 to try and keep in line with other countries listed.
Due to rounding, some percentages may appear as zero.
If you are viewing this table on another site, please see http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp for further details.

United States 399.1 43%
Russia* 65.2 7%
China* 56 6%
United Kingdom 49 5%
Japan 45.1 5%
France 40 4%
Germany 29.7 3%
Saudi Arabia 19.3 2%
India 19.1 2%
Italy 17.5 2%
South Korea 16.4 2%
Australia 11.7 1%
Turkey* 11.7 1%
Israel* 10.8 1%
Canada 10.1 1%
Spain* 9.9 1%
Brazil 9.2 1%
Netherlands 7.6 1%
Taiwan 7.5 1%
Greece* 7.2 1%
Indonesia* 6.4 1%
Sweden 5.9 1%
North Korea* 5.5 1%
Ukraine* 5.5 1%
Singapore 5 1%
Poland 4.4 0%
Norway 4.2 0%
Kuwait 4 0%
Iran 3.5 0%
Belgium 3.3 0%
Pakistan 3.3 0%
Colombia* 3.2 0%
Portugal* 3.2 0%
Vietnam 3.2 0%
Denmark 2.9 0%
Mexico 2.8 0%
Egypt* 2.7 0%
Czech Republic 1.9 0%
Hungary 1.7 0%
Syria 1.6 0%
Argentina 1.6 0%
Rumania** 1.5 0%
Cuba* 1.2 0%
Philippines 0.8 0%
Libya* 0.7 0%
Serbia-Montenegro 0.7 0%
Slovakia** 0.7 0%
Bulgaria** 0.6 0%
Slovenia** 0.5 0%
Sudan* 0.5 0%
Lithuania** 0.3 0%
Luxembourg 0.3 0%
Estonia** 0.2 0%
Latvia** 0.2 0%

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopoli...ContextUSMilitarySpendingVersusRestoftheWorld

 

[supercharged]

"So $431.111 Billion Vs $1 Billion in defence, who has more money to spare for aid?"

You must consider the size of each nation's economy.

Ie, you're completely off the track.

No, take a look at the percentage of GDP figures then

 

[ogmzergrush]

Bearing in mind

Indonesia's armed forces (Indonesian: Tentara Nasional Indonesia, or TNI, formerly ABRI) total about 250,000 members, including the army, navy, marines, and air force. The army is by far the largest, with about 196,000 active-duty personnel. Defence spending in the national budget is only 1.8% of GDP but is supplemented by revenue from many military-run businesses and foundations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Indonesia

I'm sure the same is true to an extent in the US, so either way a direct comparison is difficult (Or at least, an accurate direct comparison).

Amusingly enough, also

Only about twenty-five to thirty percent of the budget of the Indonesian military actually comes from the government. The exact figures are impossible because nobody is allowed to audit the military budget. Each of the services has their own foundation, where they get their money from. These foundations operate all kinds of businesses -- legal and illegal businesses -- some of them involve poaching, smuggling, oil smuggling, all kinds of different things. This encourages business activities among the soldiers. And the soldiers are grossly underpaid. An Indonesian general makes only about four hundred dollars a month, and an Indonesian enlisted man makes considerably less. They have to earn a living somehow, and almost always ends up being some sort of activity, such as setting up a roadblock and stopping drivers coming through and shaking them down for money or something.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/indonesia/abri.htm

Which may or may not seem credible depending on how you look at it, but the site looks at least as worthy of trust as globalissues.org. It does tend towards sounding a bit over the top, but I wouldn't really know, and I'm sure there's at least an element of truth in it.

 

[Soma]

It doesn't matter whether the US as a nation is rich New Orleans as a state is very poor.

From Wikipedia:

The per capita income for the city is $17,258. 27.9% of the population and 23.7% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 40.3% of those under the age of 18 and 19.3% of those 65 and older are living below the poverty line.

A lot of these people were poverty stricken to begin with and now have nothing. I have no qualms with donating.

 

[supercharged]

It doesn't matter whether the US as a nation is rich New Orleans as a state is very poor.

From Wikipedia:

The per capita income for the city is $17,258. 27.9% of the population and 23.7% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 40.3% of those under the age of 18 and 19.3% of those 65 and older are living below the poverty line.

A lot of these people were poverty stricken to begin with and now have nothing. I have no qualms with donating.

They may be relatively poor but the US government is damn richest in the world, let them help their own people...

 

[ogmzergrush]

It doesn't matter whether the US as a nation is rich New Orleans as a state is very poor.

From Wikipedia:

The per capita income for the city is $17,258. 27.9% of the population and 23.7% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 40.3% of those under the age of 18 and 19.3% of those 65 and older are living below the poverty line.

A lot of these people were poverty stricken to begin with and now have nothing. I have no qualms with donating.

Exactly, not to mention the earlier points about how the donations don't go to the government. Even if we ignore those though, as rich as they apparently are, if people aren't getting helped out and a bit more money can help, who can really begrudge them that (Edit: given post above, supercharged obviously, lol)? I don't really think the blame game, or a mercenary attitude, is appropriate at times like this, if people need help they should get it, one way or the other.

 

[bitchgirl]

most of the hardest hit areas are black communities and the government dont give a shit about the black society, they never had, never did and probably never will..
who gives a fuck if its america or not, yes the bush government are brainwashed media fish bowl heads, but think outside of the square and think of the community and the families and people there who are left homeless and have no where to go and everyone knows the government wont do jack shit, 80% of the area is already underwater..

 

[supercharged]

Headline
World
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coverages
2005 Hurricane Katrina
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Nation
U.S.
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New Orleans in Anarchy With Fights, Rapes

[LatelineNews: 2005-9-1] NEW ORLEANS - New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday as corpses lay abandoned in street medians, fights and fires broke out, cops turned in their badges and the governor declared war on looters who have made the city a menacing landscape of disorder and fear.
``They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded,'' Gov. Kathleen Blanco said of 300 National Guard troops who landed in New Orleans fresh from duty in Iraq. ``These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will.''

Four days after Hurricane Katrina roared in with a devastating blow that inflicted potentially thousands of deaths, the fear, anger and violence mounted Thursday.

``I'm not sure I'm going to get out of here alive,'' said Canadian tourist Larry Mitzel, who handed a reporter his business card in case he goes missing. ``I'm scared of riots. I'm scared of the locals. We might get caught in the crossfire.''

The chaos deepened despite the promise of 1,400 National Guardsmen a day to stop the looting, plans for a $10 billion recovery bill in Congress and a government relief effort President Bush called the biggest in U.S. history.

New Orleans' top emergency management official called that effort a ``national disgrace'' and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly lawless city.

About 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans convention center grew ever more hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead. Police Chief Eddie Compass said there was such a crush around a squad of 88 officers that they retreated when they went in to check out reports of assaults.

``We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten,'' Compass said. ``Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon.''

Col. Henry Whitehorn, chief of the Louisiana State Police, said he heard of numerous instances of New Orleans police officers - many of whom from flooded areas - turning in their badges.

``They indicated that they had lost everything and didn't feel that it was worth them going back to take fire from looters and losing their lives,'' Whitehorn said.

A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.

In hopes of defusing the situation at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they could find. But the bedlam made that difficult.

``This is a desperate SOS,'' Nagin said in a statement. ``Right now we are out of resources at the convention center and don't anticipate enough buses.''

At least seven bodies were scattered outside the convention center, a makeshift staging area for those rescued from rooftops, attics and highways. The sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement.

An old man in a chaise lounge lay dead in a grassy median as hungry babies wailed around him. Around the corner, an elderly woman lay dead in her wheelchair, covered up by a blanket, and another body lay beside her wrapped in a sheet.

``I don't treat my dog like that,'' 47-year-old Daniel Edwards said as he pointed at the woman in the wheelchair.

``You can do everything for other countries, but you can't do nothing for your own people,'' he added. ``You can go overseas with the military, but you can't get them down here.''

The street outside the center, above the floodwaters, smelled of urine and feces, and was choked with dirty diapers, old bottles and garbage.

``They've been teasing us with buses for four days,'' Edwards said. ``They're telling us they're going to come get us one day, and then they don't show up.''

Every so often, an armored state police vehicle cruised in front of the convention center with four or five officers in riot gear with automatic weapons. But there was no sign of help from the National Guard.

At one point the crowd began to chant ``We want help! We want help!'' Later, a woman, screaming, went on the front steps of the convention center and led the crowd in reciting the 23rd Psalm, ``The Lord is my shepherd .

Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, ``'Go to hell - it's every man for himself.'''

''

Looks like after natural disasters the Americans will just degrade into general anarchy and go out and gun down or rape each other like militias in a crazy banana republic. Makes Thailand or even Indonesia after the tsunami look like a relatively tranqil place.

Next time Johnnie Howard says "America and Australia share the same values", he may have a second thought.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

fuck you're a dumb racist bastard.
In indonesia you had a population with no weapons, that was already used to living a fairly shitty life, and the population was a general mix of people.

In New Orleans you generally have the poorer/more criminal people who hung around.

Honestly do you believe this shit you type?

 

[Generator]

Looks like after natural disasters the Americans will just degrade into general anarchy and go out and gun down or rape each other like militias in a crazy banana republic. Makes Thailand or even Indonesia after the tsunami look like a relatively tranqil place.

Next time Johnnie Howard says "America and Australia share the same values", he may have a second thought.

It is as though you never read what has already been posted at times.

 

[leetom]

I wonder if Al-Qaeda feels silly, being outdone by the weather.

 

[supercharged]

fuck you're a dumb racist bastard.
In indonesia you had a population with no weapons, that was already used to living a fairly shitty life, and the population was a general mix of people.

In New Orleans you generally have the poorer/more criminal people who hung around.

Honestly do you believe this shit you type?

You're in denial aren't you, New Orlean's population is poor so what, Thailand and Indonesia aren't exactly rich either are they? At least they didn't turn to anarchy and butchering each other in the aftermath (they might not have many guns but hey they could use knives). America on the other hand cough cough

Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, ``'Go to hell - it's every man for himself.'''

 

[...]

I wonder if Al-Qaeda feels silly, being outdone by the weather.

i was thinking bout that
maybe osama's next big thing would be a controlled cyclone...