Should there be an Aboriginal voice to parliament? (4 Viewers)

[year10studentpreparin]

the solution isn’t going to come through every single aboriginal person in the country somehow coming to some sudden introspection about the problems of their parenting and ‘activities’, that’s just clearly not realistic. the problem isn’t the aboriginal people themselves nor is it the culture, the problem is the friction between their culture and our Western society, and the culture isn’t going to suddenly change so we are going to have to play our part of that puzzle. the aboriginal people as a whole did introspect, and came to the conclusion that a constitutional voice was the best course of action to reduce this friction, and given they know their situation best, it seems quite logical to accept their proposal

"It has improved quite a bit, but we are still not on an equal footing with the rest of Australia," Miller said. "Aboriginal people still have one foot on the ground, and it seems that we can't lift it. All we're needing is some sort of chance to get on that socio-eco ladder so we can start our climb."
an aboriginal woman themselves legit said it, they just need or want more money and funding. Guess what is that they already get more funding than the average Australian and there are also towns in australia who are like 75km away from a grocery store but dont get funding just because they are white

 

[year10studentpreparin]

over 80% of aboriginals support the voice

sigh.
thats a very misleading statistic
that statistic excludes the people of northern territory etc you know where the majority of aboriginals are??

 

[carrotsss]

I thought you were still undecided and wanted advice on how to vote, you seem pretty damn deadset on voting no, no matter how many topics I explain

 

[synthesisFR]

personally im doing a coin toss on the day

 

[synthesisFR]

im jk im not 18 yet so yeah

 

[carrotsss]

im jk im not 18 yet so yeah

same

 

[kingpalindrome]

"It has improved quite a bit, but we are still not on an equal footing with the rest of Australia," Miller said. "Aboriginal people still have one foot on the ground, and it seems that we can't lift it. All we're needing is some sort of chance to get on that socio-eco ladder so we can start our climb."
an aboriginal woman themselves legit said it, they just need or want more money and funding. Guess what is that they already get more funding than the average Australian and there are also towns in australia who are like 75km away from a grocery store but dont get funding just because they are white

Exactly - the Voice provides that chance to "get on the socio-eco ladder" by allowing a means for Indigenous people to have a say on issues that affect them.

There's a difference between equality and equity - equality provides everyone with the exact same resources and opportunity, but due to the ingrained disadvantages that have been inflicted on so many Indigenous communities, equality does not lead to equal outcomes.

Equity, on the other hand, provides different resources to different groups to achieve the equal outcome. Think of it this way - if you were 1.5m tall and needed to reach a 3m shelf, you'd need a different sized ladder than someone who was 2.2m tall.

The voice provides a means for equity to be achieved. If you're not Indigenous, literally nothing will change for you, you will still be able to reach the proverbial 'shelf', it's just that the shelf will now become somewhat more accessible for others.

And it's not a new concept- similar advisory bodies exist in Norway, New Zealand, Canada etc, and they have shown to have benefits.

 

[kingpalindrome]

im jk im not 18 yet so yeah

ditto, wish I was born just two months earlier haha

 

[Rattlehead15]

im jk im not 18 yet so yeah

This is an adults only zone

 

[year10studentpreparin]

Exactly - the Voice provides that chance to "get on the socio-eco ladder" by allowing a means for Indigenous people to have a say on issues that affect them.

There's a difference between equality and equity - equality provides everyone with the exact same resources and opportunity, but due to the ingrained disadvantages that have been inflicted on so many Indigenous communities, equality does not lead to equal outcomes.

Equity, on the other hand, provides different resources to different groups to achieve the equal outcome. Think of it this way - if you were 1.5m tall and needed to reach a 3m shelf, you'd need a different sized ladder than someone who was 2.2m tall.

The voice provides a means for equity to be achieved. If you're not Indigenous, literally nothing will change for you, you will still be able to reach the proverbial 'shelf', it's just that the shelf will now become somewhat more accessible for others.

And it's not a new concept- similar advisory bodies exist in Norway, New Zealand, Canada etc, and they have shown to have benefits.

lmao im sorry but when u say ingrained disadvantages it just sounds like you are really treating them like they are disadvantaged disabled people and that there is a gene in them that makes them less socioeconomic lol.
I am not saying we ignore their disadvantages but gosh lmao
like surely you believe an aboriginal who grows up in the city is way better off than a white person living in alice springs?

 

[carrotsss]

lmao im sorry but when u say ingrained disadvantages it just sounds like you are really treating them like they are disadvantaged disabled people and that there is a gene in them that makes them less socioeconomic lol.
like surely you believe an aboriginal who grows up in the city is way better off than a white person living in alice springs?

they aren’t ‘disabled’, but as I said their culture has frictions with western society. aiming to reduce this frictions doesn’t mean we’re belittling than, we’re just identifying the problems they face.

 

[year10studentpreparin]

I’m voting no, why on earth do you need a referendum to just make a committee. The amount of money I’ve seen politicians spend out of their own pocket for this campaign is not convincing either.

yeah

 

[year10studentpreparin]

they aren’t ‘disabled’, but as I said their culture has frictions with western society. aiming to reduce this frictions doesn’t mean we’re belittling than, we’re just identifying the problems they face.

do you agree that not all cultures are good or better that every culture has something bad with it others worse? that some aspects of culture should be erased if harmful?

 

[kingpalindrome]

lmao im sorry but when u say ingrained disadvantages it just sounds like you are really treating them like they are disadvantaged disabled people and that there is a gene in them that makes them less socioeconomic lol.
like surely you believe an aboriginal who grows up in the city is way better off than a white person living in alice springs?

For sure! Location has a massive role in socioeconomic disadvantage, there's no way I'm discounting that. One person's difficulties does not mean someone else's difficulties are any less valid. But it has been proven over and over again that the life expectancy, educational access, health inequality etc etc are statistically less positive for Indigenous people in Australia than non-Indigenous people in Australia.

It's not a 'gene' at all, it's the way the (largely white and urban) government for the past 200 years has made laws that do not have the best interests of Indigenous people in mind - which, again, is what the Voice seeks to remedy.

Have a read of some of the stats from the Australian Institute of Statistics: //www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-welfare/australias-welfare-2017-in-brief/contents/indigenous-australians

 

[year10studentpreparin]

to be honest I dont think you can say that voice advisories particularly in new zealand have particularly gone well
especially when this is the result of such things
'A new algorithm used in some New Zealand hospitals means Māori and Pacific patients for elective surgery will be pushed higher on waiting lists than those of other ethnicities with identical other factors like level of sickness, location and time on a waitlist.'

 

[carrotsss]

do you agree that not all cultures are good or better that every culture has something bad with it others worse? that some aspects of culture should be erased if harmful?

you’re being ridiculous now lol I’ve literally said countless times that we should be aiming to minimise the friction from our side and provide assistance, not once did I say that there is a problem with them or their culture or that we should erase a drop it, in fact I’ve said quite the opposite numerous times.

 

[kingpalindrome]

I’m voting no, why on earth do you need a referendum to just make a committee. The amount of money I’ve seen politicians spend out of their own pocket for this campaign is not convincing either.

yeah I do agree that this campaign has become wayyyy overinflated with political bias. Unfortunately though committees have been formed in the past, but as soon as they reach an issue where the government can't be bothered to solve it, the committee has been disbanded, for example the National Aboriginal Consultative Committee established by the Whitlam government in 1973, disbanded when the Liberals came to power. The Voice enshrines the committee in the constitution so that can't happen.

 

[year10studentpreparin]

For sure! Location has a massive role in socioeconomic disadvantage, there's no way I'm discounting that. One person's difficulties does not mean someone else's difficulties are any less valid. But it has been proven over and over again that the life expectancy, educational access, health inequality etc etc are statistically less positive for Indigenous people in Australia than non-Indigenous people in Australia.

It's not a 'gene' at all, it's the way the (largely white and urban) government for the past 200 years has made laws that do not have the best interests of Indigenous people in mind - which, again, is what the Voice seeks to remedy.

Have a read of some of the stats from the Australian Institute of Statistics: //www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-welfare/australias-welfare-2017-in-brief/contents/indigenous-australians

yes but the issues they face arent just specific to Australians you get what I mean?
A lot of these issues are just caused due to bad access to food and health clinics etc as well as rampant alcohol abuse, violence and a lot of crime.
Its almost like poorer areas and communities around australia who arent aboriginal also suffer the same problems...

 

[year10studentpreparin]

you’re being ridiculous now lol I’ve literally said countless times that we should be aiming to minimise the friction from our side and provide assistance, not once did I say that there is a problem with them or their culture or that we should erase a drop it, in fact I’ve said quite the opposite numerous times.

Define their culture then. Its safe to say a lot of them have assimilated into western culture, dont tell me ur one of the white people and yes voters who still think aboriginals in rural towns and communities wear G strings and paint their hands white everyday? thats just ceremonial and for fun

 

[kingpalindrome]

yes but the issues they face arent just specific to Australians you get what I mean?
A lot of these issues are just caused due to bad access to food and health clinics etc as well as rampant alcohol abuse, violence and a lot of crime.
Its almost like poorer areas and communities around australia who arent aboriginal also suffer the same problems...

again, not discounting this. But if the Voice passes, some (not all! we're never going to live in a utopia) of these issues have the potential to be remedied. I don't get why an advisory body for Indigenous people is being treated like it will pose a threat to non-Indigenous people - surely some steps towards fixing these problems, by benefiting some people in those communities, will then benefit others via a trickle-down approach. Some change is better than no change at all!