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Should marijuana be legalised? (2 Viewers)

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ladyknight said:
İ believe that smoking tobacco is at least as harmful as marijuana, and that if one is illegal than the other should be too.
That's what it comes down to. The only thing that people lay back on in saying that marijuana should be kept illegal is that it is harmful.

Not the governments role - its not illegal to possess a rope merely because you can hang yourself with it. Even if it is harmful, it's up to the individual to decide whether they want to *harm* themselves.

Though, when it comes to drugs like Heroin, then thats a bit too far, because then other factors come in like its very potent and very difficult to get off - one injection and your life goes down hill. If this injection is done through peer pressure, then that isn't fair, so Heroin should be kept illegal. One joint of marijuana isn't going to send your life down hill though.
 

townie

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i'm in support of all drugs being legalised, but sale and supply controlled by the government
 

ladyknight

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townie said:
i'm in support of all drugs being legalised, but sale and supply controlled by the government
Huge black market potential that way, though- at least now its more or less out in the open...
 

mr_brightside

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Captain� Obvious said:
That creates liability.
Sif it does.

What about cigs and alcohol?
do you see people suing the government for being addicted?
 
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katie_tully

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I'm not sure it's even worth debating about anymore. I know 8th graders that grow their own supply in their cupboards. I can't imagine it is of high quality, but it's marijuana and it's more accessable than most legal drugs, even alcohol.

Who cares, just don't try and operate heavy machinery and we'll all be happy.
 

Justin

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8th graders?

How many?

Is this a case of you've heard them saying that they own a plant and you actually believe it? :eek:
 

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Marijuana not a soft drug: UN

Marijuana not a soft drug: UN
PM - Wednesday, 28 June , 2006 18:35:00
Reporter: Michael Edwards



MARK COLVIN: The United Nations has waded into the long-running debate over whether marijuana is a soft drug.

It's not, says the UN, in fact, cannabis use has turned into a major pandemic, which is causing as much harm as cocaine and heroin.

The UN report also takes a swipe at countries that have liberalised their drug policies.

Doctors agree that marijuana is a problem but drug researchers in Australia say the report misses the point.

Michael Edwards has this report.

[continued - see link]
 

Optophobia

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I'm not seeing what the UN has said in that article. If it's greatest harm is causing cancer, then that is no reason to keep it illegal, as previously mentioned many times on this thread, so to does Tobacco cause cancer.

the use of hydroponic equipment, which produces more potent strains.
Potent? I don't think that's the right word. They aren't really stating their point (if this article is anything to go by). It's like they have an irrational fear of it to an extent.
 

Optophobia

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http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6912

Cannabis Smoking Not Linked To Lung Cancer, Case-Control Study Says

May 24, 2006 - San Diego, CA, USA



San Diego, CA: Smoking cannabis, even long-term, is not positively associated with increased incidence of lung-cancer, according to the findings of the largest population-based case-control study performed to date. Lead investigator Donald Tashkin of the David Geffen School of Medicine, Division of Pulmonary and Critical Care Medicine, at the University of California-Los Angeles, presented the results this week at the 2006 International Conference of the American Thoracic Society in San Diego.

Investigators assessed the possible association between cannabis use and the risk of lung cancer in middle-aged adults (ages 18-59) living in Los Angeles. Researchers conducted interviews with 611 subjects with lung cancer and 1,040 controls matched for age, gender and neighborhood. Data was collected on lifetime marijuana use, as well as subjects' use of alcohol, tobacco and other drugs, diet, occupation, and family history of cancer. Investigators used a logistical regression model to estimate the effect of cannabis smoking on lung cancer risk, adjusting for age, gender, ethnicity, education, and cumulative tobacco smoking and alcohol use...........
 
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katie_tully

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No, I've seen them. It was a well known fact they had their own little plantations. They supplied kids at school. The transactions at lunch time were evident, I don't know how many times you can pass over a silver foil package to the same person before people stop believing it's a ham sandwhich.
 

Jonathan A

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It should remain illegal! The problem we often see with the "Medical studies have shown...." argument is that a week later, another scientest contradicts and so on and so forth.

Drug Laws are a big problem. And for prohibitionists like myself, I am tossed into a barrell of perspectives and stereotypes that I support mandatory life sentences, refusal of bail, etc... However, being a prohibitionist, I am in strong support of proportionality as to the seriousness of the offence.

Smoking weed, etc... is a very small offence. In some respects, it's not even an offence and even if it were, one which police may not even pursue. The focus is often on trafficking.

There is some strange theory developing that if we ban something, it will create an underground market that's more dangerous. That was actually shown to be wrong. Sure there is an underground market (as there is for illegal items such as gunds through to legal items such as a computer), but a prohibitionist policy is by far a much safer stance for the purposes of harm minimisation than legalising the substance.

One has to ask, why target marijuana? Why do people smoke it in the first place? Some of those issues need to be addressed as well.
 

Not-That-Bright

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It should remain illegal! The problem we often see with the "Medical studies have shown...." argument is that a week later, another scientest contradicts and so on and so forth.
We should use the best medical knowledge we have available at the time. The safety of marijuana is also not something that is up for debate in the medical community, it's simply just not that dangerous, especially in comparison with alcohol/cigarettes.
 
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Optophobia

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http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060703/full/060703-9.html

Rats taking cannabis get taste for heroin

- Study suggests cannabis-users may be vulnerable to harder drugs.

Neuroscientists have found that rats are more likely to get hooked on heroin if they have previously been given cannabis. The studies suggest a biological mechanism — at least in rats — for the much-publicized effect of cannabis as a 'gateway' to harder drugs.

The discovery hints that the brain system that produces pleasurable sensations when exposed to heroin may be 'primed' by earlier exposure to cannabis, say researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, who carried out the study.

There has long been a debate about whether exposure to drugs such as nicotine or marijuana might lead to harder habits. Many argue that the most important factors in the equation are social ones: people who get one drug from a dealer are probably more inclined to try another. But researchers are still interested to know whether there is any physiological effect that might additionally predispose users of so-called soft drugs to harder-drug addiction.

To rule out social factors, the researchers turned to an animal model. They dosed some rats with the active ingredient of cannabis and others with a neutral compound during their adolescence (when they were about four to six weeks old). After that, they gave the rats intermittent access to heroin for several weeks, obtained by pressing a lever.

Although all rats helped themselves to heroin, the ones given cannabis's key compound, called -9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), during their formative years showed a greater escalation in their self-dosing during the experiment. By the end, rats that'd had cannabis in their 'teens' were pressing the lever that delivered heroin about 1.5 times more than the rats that had previously been drug-free.
We now know that these drugs have an impact on behaviour later in life.

Yasmin Hurd,
Mount Sinai School of Medicine, New York




The researchers report the findings in the journal Neuropsychopharmacology1.

Hard to kick

"It's a nice study, although somewhat preliminary," comments Ian Stolerman, a psychopharmacologist at Kings College London. "It's too early to say there's a consensus, but a small number of studies like this suggest that there is a physiological basis for this effect."

The rat results may be due to the fact that both THC and heroin act on a pleasure pathway in the brain called the opioid system, explains study leader Yasmin Hurd, now at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York. Exposure to opiates such as heroin triggers the release of chemical messengers in the brain called opioids that stimulate pleasant sensations.

The receptor molecule to which THC binds is also found on brain cells in the opioid system, Hurd adds. Over-stimulation of these receptors through exposure to cannabis may alter these cells so that the brain either feels intensely rewarded by subsequent heroin exposure, or needs an ever-increasing dose to feel the same pleasure — both of which could lead to addiction.

If so, a similar effect may be seen with drugs such as cocaine and amphetamines, which involve another brain pathway called the dopaminergic system, Stolerman adds. Cells involved in this pathway also have THC receptors, possibly indicating that they could also be modified by cannabis exposure.

A slippery slope

But even if the gateway effect is one day found to also have a biological basis in humans, the effect is undoubtedly complicated by social factors. Some social commentators have ascribed the perceived gateway effect to the simple fact that cannabis is cheaper than many other illegal drugs, meaning that adolescents are more likely to use it before graduating to other substances.

Hurd, however, feels that softening the law against marijuana at this point would be "ridiculous", given the number of unknowns about its effects. She adds that two other drugs that also stimulate opioid cells, and could therefore also feasibly cause a gateway effect, are nicotine and alcohol. "If we turned back the clock with the knowledge we have now, these two drugs would never have been legalized," Hurd says.

The discovery also warns against complacency that cannabis does not have any lasting effect in young people who use the drug. "Lots of mothers say 'oh well, at least it's not cocaine'," Hurd says. "But this is not about the short-term effects. For adults to do it is one thing, but we have to consider the effects on children."
 

Not-That-Bright

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Neuroscientists have found that rats are more likely to get hooked on heroin if they have previously been given cannabis. The studies suggest a biological mechanism — at least in rats — for the much-publicized effect of cannabis as a 'gateway' to harder drugs.

The discovery hints that the brain system that produces pleasurable sensations when exposed to heroin may be 'primed' by earlier exposure to cannabis, say researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, who carried out the study.

There has long been a debate about whether exposure to drugs such as nicotine or marijuana might lead to harder habits. Many argue that the most important factors in the equation are social ones: people who get one drug from a dealer are probably more inclined to try another. But researchers are still interested to know whether there is any physiological effect that might additionally predispose users of so-called soft drugs to harder-drug addiction.

To rule out social factors, the researchers turned to an animal model. They dosed some rats with the active ingredient of cannabis and others with a neutral compound during their adolescence (when they were about four to six weeks old). After that, they gave the rats intermittent access to heroin for several weeks, obtained by pressing a lever.

Although all rats helped themselves to heroin, the ones given cannabis's key compound, called -9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), during their formative years showed a greater escalation in their self-dosing during the experiment. By the end, rats that'd had cannabis in their 'teens' were pressing the lever that delivered heroin about 1.5 times more than the rats that had previously been drug-free.
We now know that these drugs have an impact on behaviour later in life.
Did they give the rats cigarettes? Did they give the rats alcohol? I think you'd find the same sort of results. I also don't think this sort of experiment is good for things like this, it's better to look at the stats of what is actually happening (edit: as the article I just noticed does point out, there are social factors). Again you can justify claiming marijuana as a 'gateway' drug, but I'm afriad you'll find that alcohol/cigarettes are just as much of a gateway drug.

Anyway, if one study showing that marijuana is a gateway drug to others, is the worst thing you can find about it (do a bit of a search on alcohol/cigarettes) that tells me it's not as dangerous as alot of other legal substances.
 

Jonathan A

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Not-That-Bright said:
We should use the best medical knowledge we have available at the time. The safety of marijuana is also not something that is up for debate in the medical community, it's simply just not that dangerous, especially in comparison with alcohol/cigarettes.

The medical knowledge is very clear. Excessive use can have harsh side effects. Alcohol and Tobacco doesn't have an attachment of full acceptance. We are constantly cracking down on those activities. It would be completely backward thinking to allow another drug in the mix for sake a logical sequence of: if other drugs are allowed, then this should be. Medical knowledge at the time keeps changing and making laws will simply be very difficult to continually pass after the completion of new studies.
 

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