Should chaplaincy continue ? (1 Viewer)

[goliwog]

Ok, so chaplains have been in schools now for a few years under the howard chaplaincy programe. A recent survey shows that 83% of principles are highly satisfied with the work that chaplains have done in their schools (Hughes & Cowan, 27, 2009). Another recent survey shows that 97% of principles are in support of the program ( Murphy & Harrison, 1, 2009). Although the AEU totally rejects the program. (they feel money can be spent better elswhere)

So what do you think. Should the school chaplaincy program continue ?

 

[SylviaB]

LOL

At my recent year 12 dinner, when we were sitting at our tables waiting for the evenings events to commence, the principle came around and told us they were getting rid of chaplains in schools and gave us petitions to fill out.

I read it, and it sounded reasonable but then started with all this crap about how "their strong Christian beliefs underpin their helping ability in our schools and our community"

and yeah i was feeling like a bit of an arsehole so i "accidentally" spilt my glass of water on the sheet after everyone, including myself to help prevent suspicion, had signed it, ruining the sheet.

LOL

 

[goliwog]

Lol

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Religion has no place within institutions of learning, just as facts and reason have no place within a church.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Ok, so chaplains have been in schools now for a few years under the howard chaplaincy programe. A recent survey shows that 83% of principles are highly satisfied with the work that chaplains have done in their schools (Hughes & Cowan, 27, 2009). Another recent survey shows that 97% of principles are in support of the program ( Murphy & Harrison, 1, 2009). Although the AEU totally rejects the program. (they feel money can be spent better elswhere)

So what do you think. Should the school chaplaincy program continue ?

I don't see why principals are the best judge.

They are bureaucrats that get paid according to their ability to fellate the bureaucrats above them. They are not selected or promoted on the basis of how satisfied the students and parents at their schools are.

Someone should ask the students and the parents what they want, not to mention the taxpayers who are being forced to pay for it.

 

[loquasagacious]

Insofar as the state exists the church should be separate to it. This means no chaplains in schools.

If however the state did not fund schools then perhaps private institutions could chose to provide a chaplaincy service to their students. I am interested in what the libertarian perspective on this is. When does the right of the child to receive accurate information over-rule the right of a parent to chose their child's schooling? Should privately funded schools be allowed to write their own curriculum and not teach evolution or contraception? What about not teaching science at all? Is there a point at which the state intervenes?

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

If however the state did not fund schools then perhaps private institutions could chose to provide a chaplaincy service to their students. I am interested in what the libertarian perspective on this is. When does the right of the child to receive accurate information over-rule the right of a parent to chose their child's schooling? Should privately funded schools be allowed to write their own curriculum and not teach evolution or contraception? What about not teaching science at all? Is there a point at which the state intervenes?

The libertarian perspective is that its totally up to the parents or the student if they are able to support them self.

Not only should schools not have to teach science, children should not even have to go to school.

 

[goliwog]

I don't see why principals are the best judge.

They are bureaucrats that get paid according to their ability to fellate the bureaucrats above them. They are not selected or promoted on the basis of how satisfied the students and parents at their schools are.

Someone should ask the students and the parents what they want, not to mention the taxpayers who are being forced to pay for it.

Parents were interviewed

45 % gave "strong positive feedback" while 38% gave "mostly positive feedback'

only 0.3% gave negative feedback

students where also surveyed and 76% felt chaplaincy was of high importance

the data however for parents and students was more by case study then whole scale surveys

 

[goliwog]

hmm random fact ... as of august 2009 there were 38 chaplains in nsw public schools (while there are 1874 in australian public schools) apparently if you dont want a chaplain nsw is the place to be

 

[Fish Tank]

I don't see any harm in the program tbh

 

[HumanDichotomy]

Yes, it should be continued. At my school, I thought both chaplains were great during the times that shit stuff happened. But I think there should be a standard they have to meet, maybe do a counselling course, and be especially experienced in working with young people. I also believe that they should not be considered a substitute for other forms of counselling at a school, and that if there are going to be chaplains at a school for spiritual/emotional guidance, they should be open-minded and able to accept people of all religions, not be there to convert people. Also, there should be leaders from other religions too, imams and rabbis, who are also open-minded and meet the same standards. That way, the students can choose

 

[SylviaB]

why the fuck do kids need "spiritual guidance" at school for

wtf go to church or something idk

 

[goliwog]

well there is a lot of research out there that sugguests a well grounded spirituality is needed for a healthy lifestyle and for effective learning. Students who have not developed spirituality or are at lower order spirituality will be disadvantaged. Dont confuse spirituality with religion though , spirituality is far more abstract , everyong , even atheists have spirituality. Look into moral development (kohlberg) and faith development (fowler) for a start. there is a lot of scholarly debates over the importance of spirituality and how it effects or can effect learning and the best way to teach, enhance or implement it.

 

[dieburndie]

well there is a lot of research out there that sugguests a well grounded spirituality is needed for a healthy lifestyle and for effective learning. Students who have not developed spirituality or are at lower order spirituality will be disadvantaged. Dont confuse spirituality with religion though , spirituality is far more abstract , everyong , even atheists have spirituality. Look into moral development (kohlberg) and faith development (fowler) for a start. there is a lot of scholarly debates over the importance of spirituality and how it effects or can effect learning and the best way to teach, enhance or implement it.

Spirituality is the culturally approved term for what is essentially just superstition and/or hallucinations.

There is not a "whole lot" of credible research "out there" that suggests this is needed for a healthy lifestyle or effective learning.
Moral development is possible entirely seperate from supernatural beliefs. Faith is belief without evidence, so "faith development" is effectively anti-learning and has no place in any educational institution.

There is also no such thing as well grounded spirituality.

What a bunch of fucking retarded hippie bullshit.

 

[Rafy]

No. Religion has no place in schools. Certainly not if it is to be taxpayer funded. Revolting policy.

 

[goliwog]

Moral development is possible entirely seperate from supernatural beliefs. Faith is belief without evidence, so "faith development" is effectively anti-learning and has no place in any educational institution.

fiath development does not refer to the christian understanding of the word faith. Here faith is seen as how one responds to the world for the greater good. This is similar to moral development but focuses more on motivations for example a young child will do anything there parents tell them because as of yet they only have faith in their parents. And they do good because of their parents. I wont bore you with any phscological stuff if you cant be bothered reading it for yourself though

the arguements over spirituality is hard because everyone has a different definition of what spirituality is. For example consumerism can be seen as a spirituality by some pschologists.

What a bunch of fucking retarded hippie bullshit.

i thought religious people were meant to be disrespectful and closed minded ... I dont care if you agree with me , and in fact i respect you for stating what you think, but do you really need to be disrespectful ?

 

[SylviaB]

well there is a lot of research out there that sugguests a well grounded spirituality is needed for a healthy lifestyle and for effective learning. Students who have not developed spirituality or are at lower order spirituality will be disadvantaged. Dont confuse spirituality with religion though , spirituality is far more abstract , everyong , even atheists have spirituality. Look into moral development (kohlberg) and faith development (fowler) for a start. there is a lot of scholarly debates over the importance of spirituality and how it effects or can effect learning and the best way to teach, enhance or implement it.

lmao what a load of shit

 

[will-anal]

well there is a lot of research out there that sugguests a well grounded spirituality is needed for a healthy lifestyle and for effective learning. Students who have not developed spirituality or are at lower order spirituality will be disadvantaged. Dont confuse spirituality with religion though , spirituality is far more abstract , everyong , even atheists have spirituality. Look into moral development (kohlberg) and faith development (fowler) for a start. there is a lot of scholarly debates over the importance of spirituality and how it effects or can effect learning and the best way to teach, enhance or implement it.

Citation needed.

Studies preferably not funded by any Church organisations

 

[Planck]

Fuck no shut it down fuck the churches burn them down

 

[Fish Tank]

It would be good to have the option for people to take it. Sure, the taxpayer may foot the bill, but I'm paying for infrastructure on the coast and I won't need that.

Then again this doesn't affect me, so whatever happens happens.


P.S. I'm not religious.