Should Australia Develop Nuclear Weapons (1 Viewer)

[Iron]

I’m not going to deeply get involved in this. Just a matter of opinion.

We have the basic resources, and given a series of unfortunate Asian events, shouldn’t completely place our fate in American hands. The technology seems appropriate to our vulnerability. Also, Britain got away with it fine.

Thoughts?

 

[Iron]

Simply as a deterent. We should trust ourselves to not elect somoeone with a first strike policy

 

[_dhj_]

I think ideally we ought to develop nuclear weapons but realistically it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. The U.S. would not allow us to develop them, and given their historical influence on Australian politics and actual military presence in Australia, it would be difficult for a Prime Minister promote a nuclear armament policy without getting deposed by the CIA.

 

[jb_nc]

For me, the key difference is on Australian identity.

Labor has always pushed for an independent Australia, acting on its own accord and in its own interests. They see Australia as distinct from the source cultures of UK/USA. They see Australia's defence and engagement in the region, in accordance with global governance, as the key to foreign policy. They see the world for what it is; full of losers which humanity can and should help. They're the party of nation building. They are always hated by those in power - always opposed. They're the underdogs who can only win when exemplary. They're the party of ideals, the party of hope, compassion and the people.

The Liberal party have never really believed in Australia. They were never aggressively Australian. Their foreign policy has always shown no faith in this land or its people to truly advance Australia. Their idea of Australia and Australians does not exist. Our past and present cannot be distinguished from that of our powerful Anglo allies. They have it easy because they are born into powerful networks which act as cupid to their aristocratic expectations. They fight to protect a past and present which favours them and their children. They are petty men who are both humiliated slaves and cruel masters. They are the party of hate and greed, of lies and mediocrity.

But enough of that.

 

[Iron]

I think ideally we ought to develop nuclear weapons but realistically it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. The U.S. would not allow us to develop them, and given their historical influence on Australian politics and actual military presence in Australia, it would be difficult for a Prime Minister promote a nuclear armament policy without getting deposed by the CIA.

True, but the question partly goes to the American alliance. Our justification for it is basically defence, partly cultural. But there's no assurance of support and ANZUS is pretty vague. Some of our current defence equipment relys on American technology that we have no access to. For instance, during Vietnam, certain parts for the airforce werent being delivered because Australia's needs came no where close to America's own, in fighting their war. But there's also the possibility that America could simply deny supply if they dissaproved of our war, and we'd be utterly stuffed.
Nuclear weapons would essentially give us more independece

 

[lengy]

I say, why not?

 

[_dhj_]

True, but the question partly goes to the American alliance. Our justification for it is basically defence, partly cultural. But there's no assurance of support and ANZUS is pretty vague. Some of our current defence equipment relys on American technology that we have no access to. For instance, during Vietnam, certain parts for the airforce werent being delivered because Australia's needs came no where close to America's own, in fighting their war. But there's also the possibility that America could simply deny supply if they dissaproved of our war, and we'd be utterly stuffed.
Nuclear weapons would essentially give us more independece

Well I don't think the A-US is beneficial for Australia either. Unlike 'liberal' western nations, the Asian nations within our region respect power first and foremost. That is an aspect of its culture. For example, while Australians and Europeans tend to be 'anti-american', Asians regard the U.S. as a benchmark (indeed my anti-american comments did not go down too well in china). To be taken serious by Asian countries - especially the south-eastern asian countries like Malaysia and Singapore, we need to weld real power. As we all know the only countries that weld real power are those with nuclear weapons, not those with 'powerful allies'. But I think Australian cooperation, particularly in intelligence gathering for American military operations is of too great strategic significance for the U.S. They will not risk allowing us to develop nuclear weapons and in the event of our attempt to do so, they will intervene.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't want us to develop nuclear weapons because that will just make our regional opponents want nuclear weapons and I fear nuclear weapons in their hands would be less than secure.

As we all know the only countries that weld real power are those with nuclear weapons, not those with 'powerful allies'.

I disagree, countries that wield economic power (particularly these days in the form of resources) are ones that wield 'real' power as well.

 

[_dhj_]

I disagree, countries that wield economic power (particularly these days in the form of resources) are ones that wield 'real' power as well.

Well having resources induce others to take them. In that case there is a greater need to defend oneself. Just look at the Middle East. Economic power is important but so is military bargaining power. The two go hand in hand, and military bargaining power affords a country license for its 'peaceful rising'.

 

[Iron]

I think we've been a good ally and they didnt mind Britain getting the bomb - not even the French, who dragged them into a huge shit fight in se asia.
The arms race is an area i'd be a bit reluctant about too. I think if we did it with US sanctioning (i.e. make them accept its inevitability), then it would be fine. But at any rate, if Indonesia subsequently acquired it, it could promote territorial stability at least - in that neither would ever consider ground war with eachother.

 

[P_Dilemma]

I say, why not?

And everyone else says, why?

To be srs, tho, i don't think we need nukes.

-P_D

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't think our opposition would come from the US at all, in fact I imagine they'd be rather supportive and probably be the country that veto's any UN attempts to stop australia developing them.

Well having resources induce others to take them. In that case there is a greater need to defend oneself. Just look at the Middle East. Economic power is important but so is military bargaining power. The two go hand in hand, and military bargaining power affords a country license for its 'peaceful rising'.

I agree it does induce others to take them, however that's only a real occurance in a time of crisis imo (oil shortage or some such thing). I don't see a 'coal shortage' or anything around the corner too soon.

 

[banco55]

I don't think our opposition would come from the US at all, in fact I imagine they'd be rather supportive and probably be the country that veto's any UN attempts to stop australia developing them.

No they would't be. Firstly we'd have to withdraw from nuclear non-proliferation treaty and that would set a bad precedent as far as the US is concerned.

If we really needed them we could build them quite quickly ie 6-12 months. We're not a 3rd world backwater like Pakistan or Iran where it takes them years to get the technoloy right.

 

[sam04u]

I say, why not?

Exactly what I was thinking.

I don't think I've seen a single politician or any promising young libs/labs, who seem to be the "Use nuke, ask later" type. It'd mainly be as a defence mechanism, and a detterent.

 

[Testpilot]

We've already got a WMD

Yes, but she's xenophobic, so she wouldn't be useful when required to attack foreign countries.

 

[sam04u]

Positives for Nuclear Weapons -

Amplify military capability
Create more jobs for scientists
Decrease reliance on foreign countries to defend Australia
Achieve "nuclear" milestone. (Which could usher the way for Nuclear Power, and desalinastion plants.) Which will secure Australia's future.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

For me, the key difference is on Australian identity.

Labor has always pushed for an independent Australia, acting on its own accord and in its own interests. They see Australia as distinct from the source cultures of UK/USA. They see Australia's defence and engagement in the region, in accordance with global governance, as the key to foreign policy. They see the world for what it is; full of losers which humanity can and should help. They're the party of nation building. They are always hated by those in power - always opposed. They're the underdogs who can only win when exemplary. They're the party of ideals, the party of hope, compassion and the people.

The Liberal party have never really believed in Australia. They were never aggressively Australian. Their foreign policy has always shown no faith in this land or its people to truly advance Australia. Their idea of Australia and Australians does not exist. Our past and present cannot be distinguished from that of our powerful Anglo allies. They have it easy because they are born into powerful networks which act as cupid to their aristocratic expectations. They fight to protect a past and present which favours them and their children. They are petty men who are both humiliated slaves and cruel masters. They are the party of hate and greed, of lies and mediocrity.

But enough of that.

Pretty lame attempt at one of these "parody posts", my son.

Um, and my answer is no. Obvious reasoning, really.

 

[sam04u]

Why do we give that woman so much attention? She's such a fucking idiot, if we had listened to what she said, there would be no doctors in Australia. I shit you not. Anything which she says now, will probably again be proven to be wrong in less than a decade.

 

[Testpilot]

WRONG.

She'd rhomp those fuckers. To get rid of them obviously. Go$h, yewz your brane d00d.

Xenophobia is a fear or contempt of foreigners or strangers.

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Why?

 

[the pospinator]

no, no nuclear weapons