Save sex? (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

The word "actually"? Did you mean "already"?

yeah

Jesus brought up the issue of adultery in the heart because he wanted to emphasize that lusting is the same as commiting adultery in real life, as in, has the same immorrality

But he's already explained that all sin are equal. Why couldn't he have been bringing it up to emphasize that lusting is the same as commiting adultery in real life, as in, the same act in the eyes of the lord ? It depends whether you believe that the lines "adultery in the heart" mean that it's a different act in the eyes of the lord and not that it is seen as the same thing by him.

Anyway, plausible interpretation but I see no reason why it should be taken as any better than mine. So yeah, enough bible talk for me on this matter.

 

[BradCube]

To me it seems that he is explaining that by lusting you have already committed adultery - basically that whether it be physical or in your mind, it is the same sin.

That is exactly what I am saying. It is the same sin, as in both are adultery. However committing this sin one way, ie lusting, does not make it okay to go and commit the act by actually sleeping with someone as well.

To go back more to the main question here, why is it that this sin (if all sins are equal) is the one where people tell others so vehermently to not break? If all sins are equal should not there be threads such as 'Don't lie?' popping up all around the place? The fact that this particular sin is such a point of contention, to me, further proves that this is much more of a social thing than it is religious matter.

I think that there are a few reasons here. The first is that it is in the "Love and Relationships" category so naturally there will be threads dealing with these issues. The second is that the consequences of sex are far more complicated then that of lying. The last point I think is that most people agree on some level that lying is wrong whereas most do not believe that sex before marriage is.

 

[BradCube]

You're assuming sin exists.

Yeah, of course. As I mentioned in a previous post, if there is no such thing as absolute morailty which would give reason to the possibilty of sin, then much of this is pointless.

But I'm not trying to make an argument for whether sin exists or not, rather discussing what implications there are if it does exist.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't want to get into that, because all I'm trying to do is play it down at the threadstarter's level to help her resolve her problem, as much as (as far as debate is concerned) it's a boring place to argue from. I don't think challenging the core of her religious belief will really help her in the short term.

The first is that it is in the "Love and Relationships" category so naturally there will be threads dealing with these issues.

I used the forum as an example (which does in fact have many different categories) but essentially out there in the wider world the issue of sex before marriage is a hot topic nowadays

The second is that the consequences of sex are far more complicated then that of lying.

I disagree, lying in it's most terrible forms is perhaps the worst thing that goes on in the world.

Your last point I agree with, but the contention is not because of any issue with the scripture - it is a social issue.

 

[live.fast]

woah....you all must really wanna be priests or something huh...

 

[BradCube]

I don't want to get into that, because all I'm trying to do is play it down at the threadstarter's level to help her resolve her problem, as much as (as far as debate is concerned) it's a boring place to argue from. I don't think challenging the core of her religious belief will really help her in the short term.

Me too, lol. That debate belongs more in the "Does God Exist" thread and as you pointed out NTB, it's not really going to help our threadstarter at all.

I used the forum as an example (which does in fact have many different categories) but essentially out there in the wider world the issue of sex before marriage is a hot topic nowadays

kk, no problem and agreed.

The second is that the consequences of sex are far more complicated then that of lying.

I disagree, lying in it's most terrible forms is perhaps the worst thing that goes on in the world.

I didn't say lying was any worse, rather that its consequences are more clear cut.

Your last point I agree with, but the contention is not because of any issue with the scripture - it is a social issue.

In many cases it would seem to me that the contention does come from scripture or rather morals that people hold to because of what they believe. Does that make sense? I'm not quite sure I interpretted what you meant correctly.

Anyway, I have to go out for dinner now. It's been great chatting NTB, thanks for the convo

 

[Serius]

I am abit concerned over a few points that have been raised. To throw in my 2cents adultery of the heart is the same as real adultery but does not make it ok to commit real adultery.
In the world of today it is illegal to attempt to commit terrorist acts, if I make a plan to blow up my school, or even write about it my diary or make a fictional story about it, the police will want to talk to me and i might be charged with something. This does then not make it ok to actually blow up the school.

As for the issue of "jesus forgave our sins anyway so why not do them" its not intended as a malicious argument. If i robbed a bank and shot a teller, then God my judge and jesus my lawyer decided to pull some strings and i got let off, would i then walk out and go shoot another teller? no.

But the issue isnt as straight forward as that. Humans are inherently flawed. God understands this and the church understands this. It is impossible to ever be free of sin because of who we are.

Why then is it so wrong to give in to our instincts? it is understandable to, and we are merely human. God has never distinguished between sins either. Sin is sin, just because everyone lies at some point in their life does not make lieing a worse sin than murder.
Wearing two blends of material in one peice of clothing is a sin, just as stealing is.
I beleive that if we live our lives according to our own moral compass, beleive in god and are not bad people than God would be more than happy.

And no, i have no idea why sex before marriage is so wrong. The only thing i can come accross is that God intended sex to be between two people only, a static couple. This does not explain why sex between two people who do not sleep with anyone else and then get married is so wrong.

Then again, god didnt intend for adam to get his arse booted out of the garden either.

 

[KeypadSDM]

Hey,

Yea im a christian too and the Bible also says in Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral". So its saying that the bonds of marriage be honoured and if we shoulndt go against it by breaking it.

Im at the stance of saving myself. I went out with a girl for a year aswell and i didnt lose it. 6 months passed and i dont feel as i did about her anymore at all. Its a tough situation that you are in now but God also says in Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him".

So did you really need all that scripture to justify yourself? If what scripture said is so right, why quote it when trying to argue a point? Shouldn't the point be arguable from a logical standpoint?

By quoting scripture you're reducing the effectiveness of the argument of saving sex.

I say do it if you want to, it's a learning experience. Read up on safe sex, make sure you and your partner have no STI's, discuss what you will do if pregnancy ensues, and do it. That's all you can ask for.

That in itself is a much smarter alternative than bogan couples getting married for the purposes of sex and not worrying about the children.

Remember the bible was written in a time of great mysogyny and no knowledge of sex, practically every encounter resulted in the creation of children. This is why the bible must be treated in a contemporary light. Children should only be created between 2 partners who will love and care for the child, that should be the message.

And no, i have no idea why sex before marriage is so wrong. The only thing i can come accross is that God intended sex to be between two people only, a static couple. This does not explain why sex between two people who do not sleep with anyone else and then get married is so wrong.

It's because sex caused children, full stop. The bible writers clearly didn't want bastards, raised in a hating community.

 

[damnueconomics]

Remember the bible was written in a time of great mysogyny and no knowledge of sex, practically every encounter resulted in the creation of children. This is why the bible must be treated in a contemporary light. Children should only be created between 2 partners who will love and care for the child, that should be the message.It's because sex caused children, full stop. The bible writers clearly didn't want bastards, raised in a hating community.[/QUOTE]






yeh. plus i dont reckon you should at least until after they come back. i havent read all of these posts but i rerad your one and most of the 2st page but yeh my opinion is just wait because you can never know what might happen.

 

[KeypadSDM]

... my opinion is just wait because you can never know what might happen.

If there's no risk, there's no gain. Arguing along those lines leaves you in Clear Rivers state in Final Destination 2. That's no way to live.

I would say be precautious, and plan for any problems, but don't avoid the act simply because bad repercussions can occur.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I would say be precautious, and plan for any problems, but don't avoid the act simply because bad repercussions can occur.

Well if you're worried about problems, people whom pledge to not have sex before marriage usually end up doing so anyway and when they do they're less likely to wear a condom than someone who has not made such a pledge.

 

[BradCube]

Well if you're worried about problems, people whom pledge to not have sex before marriage usually end up doing so anyway and when they do they're less likely to wear a condom than someone who has not made such a pledge.

So are you suggesting that by deciding to not have sex before marriage, you are more likely to end up with STD's, conception ect?

 

[UnIqUe_PrInCeSs]

sex before marriage is fine by me. But ONLY if you are certain that you're doing it with the right person.

Like I would never have random sex or anything like that with a random person. I'd say dating a person for over 1.5 years is enough to know whether he's the right one for you.

well most of the time, anyway

 

[BradCube]

I beleive that if we live our lives according to our own moral compass, beleive in god and are not bad people than God would be more than happy.

If we live by our own moral compass, we have no basis to tell whether we are "good" or "bad" people other then that of our own selves. This means that it is not possible to make distinctions between good or bad people, because everyone runs on a different compass.

This does not explain why sex between two people who do not sleep with anyone else and then get married is so wrong.

This explanation may seem a bit odd, but I believe that God intented for a promise of life-long commitment to be there before sex. Not only this, but that there should be witnesses that agree with the decision.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If we live by our own moral compass, we have no basis to tell whether we are "good" or "bad" people other then that of our own selves. This means that it is not possible to make distinctions between good or bad people, because everyone runs on a different compass.

Why does there have to be 'good' and 'bad' people Brad? What a simplistic world you must live in. Am I one of the bad or am I good person?

 

[UnIqUe_PrInCeSs]

^'bad' person


or even a criminal :-O

 

[Darkening]

omg lol, I thought this thread was called "slave sex" >>><<< ....

 

[BradCube]

Why does there have to be 'good' and 'bad' people Brad? What a simplistic world you must live in. Am I one of the bad or am I good person?

Lol. Sorry, I was only using Serious' wording to make a point.

I believe in fact that we are all bad people, because we all sin. So in that regard you are a bad person just as I am. Bad really doesn't seem like correct terminology, but you know what I mean.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I believe in fact that we are all bad people, because we all sin.

Then how can you justify that some people go to prison whereas others go free? If we're all equally bad to you, why aren't we either all free or all in prison?

I think your moral compass is a little confused.

 

[UnIqUe_PrInCeSs]

lol Darkening. I thought it was called 'safe sex', until I read it twice. :-/

I believe in fact that we are all bad people, because we all sin.

no, I'm an angel.