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Rudd to ban thin models (1 Viewer)

Nebuchanezzar

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cd said:
Oh for heaven's sake. Skinny does not mean unhealthy
Nor did I say that it always did. I merely implied a correlation. Please read my posts in the future.

You're still not getting it though. Unhealthy or not in the original model is a moot point. What matters is that inspires others to leave their own healthy body for an unhealthy one. Ergo:

Healthy person
Sees skinny person
Becomes skinner
NOT GOOD!

Pretty simple, my dear.

The modelling industry promotes a certain kind of body image. This is a fact of life which I wish people would just get over, tbh...
o_0

You're also talking about emulation like everyone who reads a fashion magazine or watches a runway show is going to go and starve themselves. It's a deluded minority who do this; again I should point out that it's rarely the only thing behind an eating disorder, if it contributes at all.
It's the deluded minority who we look after in mental health institutions too, you dunce. And I would argue that it is the deluded minority who need the most care, who need to be protected, who Kevin Rudd is looking out for (regardless of the practicality of his proposal, which is another matter entirely).

You're an expert on causes of anorexia and bullimia now? Can you outline the actual reasons that people succumb to these illnesses, Professor?

As for your last statement, we're talking about people's personal health choices. It's got nothing to do with the good of the majority. A model chooses to not eat enough = personal choice. Someone sees what she looks like and decides to do the same thing = personal choice.
NO NO! DIVIDE BY ZERO!

The person in your last sentence is a function of the society that raised them. It is the responsibility of the government, above everything I would say, to ensure that people can grow up in a healthy and safe manner. Encouraging unhealthy behaviour (in aspiring to an unachievable image) is not safe nor healthy, and it is the responsibility of the government to maximise their chance at health and prosperity.

I mean, unless there's a better function of a government that I'm not aware of. IS THERE!?!?!? I was under the impression that the government was there to promote (cliche alert) the greater good? No no. They're there to look pretty. Tee hee hee!
 

^CoSMic DoRiS^^

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Nebuchanezzar said:
Nor did I say that it always did. I merely implied a correlation. Please read my posts in the future.

You're still not getting it though. Unhealthy or not in the original model is a moot point. What matters is that inspires others to leave their own healthy body for an unhealthy one. Ergo:

Healthy person
Sees skinny person
Becomes skinner
NOT GOOD!

Pretty simple, my dear.



o_0



It's the deluded minority who we look after in mental health institutions too, you dunce. And I would argue that it is the deluded minority who need the most care, who need to be protected, who Kevin Rudd is looking out for (regardless of the practicality of his proposal, which is another matter entirely).

You're an expert on causes of anorexia and bullimia now? Can you outline the actual reasons that people succumb to these illnesses, Professor?



NO NO! DIVIDE BY ZERO!

The person in your last sentence is a function of the society that raised them. It is the responsibility of the government, above everything I would say, to ensure that people can grow up in a healthy and safe manner. Encouraging unhealthy behaviour (in aspiring to an unachievable image) is not safe nor healthy, and it is the responsibility of the government to maximise their chance at health and prosperity.

I mean, unless there's a better function of a government that I'm not aware of. IS THERE!?!?!? I was under the impression that the government was there to promote (cliche alert) the greater good? No no. They're there to look pretty. Tee hee hee!
Lol what's with the sarcasm. We don't have to agree.

Seeing skinny people is not necessarily going to make you want to become skinnier yourself. Note that I am not denying there are people who do. It is also not ALWAYS a bad thing. Take a fat person, show them a skinny person and watch them try to lose weight. Is this bad? For their self image, maybe. For their physical health? No.

I would also argue that the health of the model is an entirely relevant point. If a model looks "too skinny" but is physically healthy, we have no reason to say that she shouldn't model other than that some people are trying to attain her image for themselves. Which is not her fault. Why does it have to be up to the model to portray a supposedly "healthy" image based on what the government says it should be? People should have to take responsibility for their OWN health at some point, honestly. Sheltering people from everything because it might be a bad influence on them is just bullshit. Oh no, skinny models. Oh no, violent video games. Oh dear, alcohol advertising. Where are we going to draw the line with this stuff? I don't think the majority of us who have our heads screwed on should have to pay for the idiocy of the few who don't. Go starve yourself and shoot people and binge drink if you want, but don't take things away from the people who are smart enough to know better. This is what annoys me. That the government wants to ban skinny models because some people are missing a few brain cells.

Also, condemning one particular body type as bad is just as detrimental as hailing it as perfection. What about naturally really thin girls? "Yeah sorry, you're heaps unrealistic, eat something and become a real woman". Bullshit. As long as your weight is healthy FOR YOU, it does not and should not matter whether you're 35 kilos or 100. For sure, put bigger women on the catwalk. Do it, it'd be fantastic. But don't remove the skinny ones, they have every right to be there too.

Did I say I was an expert? For fucks sake, yes seeing skinny fashion models IS a contributor to eating disorders, I have said this before. I do not believe it is the only cause, nor do I believe that in a typical single case of an eating disorder that it will be the ONLY thing.

Of course we should look after the vulnerable in our society. I never said we shouldn't. But I do not think the right way to go about doing so is to ban skinny models. Why not let the skinny ones stay and chuck some bigger ones in there too. It doesn't have to be Skinny v. Big. We don't have to single out a particular body type to hold up as healthy or unhealthy. We should be showing that you can be just about any size and still be fine (bearing in mind that it comes down to the individual and what is personally best for them)

Now as for unachieveable image...prove to me that it's unattainable. Models already do it, with hard work yes, but its not unattainable and it certainly does not have to be unhealthy. Most of us will never look like that. So what? Genetics certainly has to play a part, try to find me a catwalk model who went from a size 20 to whatever size most models tend to be, and maintained it. They're that skinny partly because they were born that way and partly because they maintain it with diet and exercise which I see no problem with.

Hahaha, yes the government is there to promote the greater good and bla bla bla. Is there anything wrong with saying that I think in this instance they're going about it the wrong way?
 
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Why not simply ban ugly/or fat chicks?

That way we can force all chicks to be hot and nobody feels inadequate

Everyone wins
 

pink-hickup

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This is the first I've heard of Rudd banning skinny models, and quite frankly I think he's focusing on the wrong issue altogether.
Australia now has the largest percentage of obese people. This, to me, is just as bad as anorexia/bulimia if not worse. Obesity has become acceptable within our society - it is seen as politically incorrect to call someone 'fat' because it might hurt their feelings.
Well boo-hoo.
Skinny people (women in particular) see it as acceptable to label someone 'too thin' but not 'too fat'. I myself have been approached and told I am too skinny and to eat something. I told them to fuck off because I do eat, and I'm a healthy size 8 and 50kg at 5"8. I don't diet, hell I don't exercise. I eat what I want, when I want. And I probably am unhealthy but not because I'm 'too thin' but because I don't care enough to look after myself - and thats my perogative and as mentioned previously - MY lifestyle choice.
Imo, Rudd should be focusing on the obese people in our society because heart attacks, strokes, high cholestorol etc are killing more people on a broader age scale and across both sexes.
But hey, lets tell the now skinny minority to also get fat. Why don't we just have a whole nation of fat people? With any luck we might kill ourselves off and then the rest of the world won't have to deal with our idiocy.:)
 

mattchis

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Rudd should be focusing on the obese people in our society because heart attacks, strokes, high cholestorol etc are killing more people on a broader age scale and across both sexes.
But hey, lets tell the now skinny minority to also get fat. Why don't we just have a whole nation of fat people? With any luck we might kill ourselves off and then the rest of the world won't have to deal with our idiocy
to fucking true.
 

Mothers

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I think the media is part of the problem. I mean, they're not doing a good enough job because I still see fatty boom-booms walking around. They should really step their game up.
 

staticsiscool

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The media is to blame for everything. I can't get over how scummy the media in this country has become. If i hear one more story about gen ys being rich and spending lots im going to kill the entire 60 minutes cast.
 

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pink-hickup said:
Obesity has become acceptable within our society - it is seen as politically incorrect to call someone 'fat' because it might hurt their feelings.
Well boo-hoo.
I don't think people should call others anything nasty, really. Calling someone fat doesn't exactly inspire the self confidence needed to hit a local gym and get healthy.
You just said yourself that you took offense to someone who called you too thin, and it's the same with being too fat.
And if obesity was accepted in society, little kids wouldn't still get teased for being a bit over weight.

Although I will admit lots of magazines and whatnot are going for the 'real girl' approach (what is that anyway? like a skinny person isn't real?) they're also not encouraging people to be fat. Just healthy in general. Which I think is fine. If you're healthy for you or happy how you are, everyone else should probably just back the fuck off, imo.

I personally think people shouldn't be told they're too fat or too skinny. If its a real problem, someone close to them should get them some sort of help? Teasing only makes things worse.
 

Hollieee

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staticsiscool said:
The media is to blame for everything. I can't get over how scummy the media in this country has become. If i hear one more story about gen ys being rich and spending lots im going to kill the entire 60 minutes cast.
Ahhahahaa yes! -Gets gun ready-
 

pink-hickup

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staticsiscool said:
The media is to blame for everything. I can't get over how scummy the media in this country has become. If i hear one more story about gen ys being rich and spending lots im going to kill the entire 60 minutes cast.
Agreed. The media play a negative role in just about everything. They've stopped simply informing people of current events and now change around every story to suit their own agendas.

Just to mention - I still can't believe Australia voted in the Labor Govt and Rudd. How utterly pathetic. When the time comes for my vote, I cringe at the thought of making a similar mistake.
 

Hollieee

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pink-hickup said:
Agreed. The media play a negative role in just about everything. They've stopped simply informing people of current events and now change around every story to suit their own agendas.

Just to mention - I still can't believe Australia voted in the Labor Govt and Rudd. How utterly pathetic. When the time comes for my vote, I cringe at the thought of making a similar mistake.
Seconded X 549025843085405843890.
I especially loved during the Olympics when they did the list of the hottest athletes. That was especially helpful.

Poop to the Labour Govt. Good work everyone! -twitches-
 

Nebuchanezzar

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^CoSMic DoRiS^^ said:
Seeing skinny people is not necessarily going to make you want to become skinnier yourself. Note that I am not denying there are people who do.
:)

It is also not ALWAYS a bad thing. Take a fat person, show them a skinny person and watch them try to lose weight. Is this bad? For their self image, maybe. For their physical health? No.
:)

Fat people don't aspire to become models though cuz they're fat and hopeless.

However this is a good point. If this happened a lot, my view would change quite a bit. You know your mission then. Allow me to join the dark side!

I would also argue that the health of the model is an entirely relevant point. If a model looks "too skinny" but is physically healthy, we have no reason to say that she shouldn't model other than that some people are trying to attain her image for themselves. Which is not her fault.
It's not her fault, no, but I believe that the government has a responsibility to promote that which is good for the most. Bad for the model? Yeah. Good for lots of mentally retarded folks? Yes! So therefore good for the majority. That is key. If I believed that there were more skinny models than those ready to slip into anorexia, or if I believed that not getting a modelling job was somehow a LIFE THREATENING CONDITION!!! then I would change my mind. Neither of those situations looks probable though.

Why does it have to be up to the model to portray a supposedly "healthy" image based on what the government says it should be? People should have to take responsibility for their OWN health at some point, honestly. Sheltering people from everything because it might be a bad influence on them is just bullshit. Oh no, skinny models. Oh no, violent video games. Oh dear, alcohol advertising. Where are we going to draw the line with this stuff? I don't think the majority of us who have our heads screwed on should have to pay for the idiocy of the few who don't. Go starve yourself and shoot people and binge drink if you want, but don't take things away from the people who are smart enough to know better. This is what annoys me. That the government wants to ban skinny models because some people are missing a few brain cells.
What is the logic behind this liberty? If violent video games, for example, lead to a great evil in society (which they don't), then why should they not be banned? A weighted approach is necessary in all situations, and that's where the line is drawn.

Also, condemning one particular body type as bad is just as detrimental as hailing it as perfection. What about naturally really thin girls? "Yeah sorry, you're heaps unrealistic, eat something and become a real woman". Bullshit. As long as your weight is healthy FOR YOU, it does not and should not matter whether you're 35 kilos or 100. For sure, put bigger women on the catwalk.
Yes I agree with all this and have said so...

Do it, it'd be fantastic. But don't remove the skinny ones, they have every right to be there too.
Not if there are no benefits to this. Perhaps an analogy (I'll use Hitler to please that dude who I think is Zimmerman?): Should Hitler have a right to be out there, promoting his promotion (which happened to be a not cool thing). Point: If it's not cool, it shouldn't be there. Comrade Rudd and I have the view that not a lot of good can come from skinny models, and that their liberty does not outweigh a dead anorexic girl. Extrapolate to big numbers and enjoy.

Now as for unachieveable image...prove to me that it's unattainable. Models already do it, with hard work yes, but its not unattainable and it certainly does not have to be unhealthy. Most of us will never look like that. So what? Genetics certainly has to play a part, try to find me a catwalk model who went from a size 20 to whatever size most models tend to be, and maintained it. They're that skinny partly because they were born that way and partly because they maintain it with diet and exercise which I see no problem with.
I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. Take a moderately sized woman, who has always been that size and is healthy. She tries to lose a lot of weight to become skinny. THIS is what I meant by unachievable, in the sense that is is not natural. Like me being fat. I could do it...maybe, but it sure as hell wouldn't be healthy.

In the end, women need to be told what size they should be by men. Deal with it, you bitch. :ninja:
 
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^CoSMic DoRiS^^

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Nebuchanezzar said:
:)
It's not her fault, no, but I believe that the government has a responsibility to promote that which is good for the most. Bad for the model? Yeah. Good for lots of mentally retarded folks? Yes! So therefore good for the majority. That is key. If I believed that there were more skinny models than those ready to slip into anorexia, or if I believed that not getting a modelling job was somehow a LIFE THREATENING CONDITION!!! then I would change my mind. Neither of those situations looks probable though.
Lol life threatening. Look I get what you're trying to say, and I'm probably being a bit harsh to people with eating disorders when I say harden the fuck up and stop obsessing, but I don't think I can agree with leaving skinny models out of a job because, well, obviously all the stuff I've been saying but also, there are other contributors to eating disorders which I don't think we've done much about targeting and this strikes me as another bandaid solution that isn't going to do much long term. If we're going to ban models who are supposedly too skinny then we should also be doing more to educate people about what a healthy self image and a healthy weight is - you only have to look at the number of people who are either way overweight or at risk of developing anorexia or whatever to realise anything we are doing is not working. It was more or less a footnote in PE at school (for me, I can't speak for anyone else), and if we're not even doing anything about it at that level what is getting rid of a few skeletons from a fashion show going to do?

(I'd also venture to say that if a girl is worried enough about her self image that she's going to develop an eating disorder, she's going to feel shit about herself even if the models she sees weigh a hundred kilos. Apparently anorexia has a way of distorting your view of reality that way :/)

Sorry if that's taking it off topic, but anyway.


What is the logic behind this liberty? If violent video games, for example, lead to a great evil in society (which they don't), then why should they not be banned? A weighted approach is necessary in all situations, and that's where the line is drawn.
I agree, but does the modelling industry lead to a great evil in society? I dunno man, guess it depends how you're gonna define evil.


Not if there are no benefits to this. Perhaps an analogy (I'll use Hitler to please that dude who I think is Zimmerman?): Should Hitler have a right to be out there, promoting his promotion (which happened to be a not cool thing). Point: If it's not cool, it shouldn't be there. Comrade Rudd and I have the view that not a lot of good can come from skinny models, and that their liberty does not outweigh a dead anorexic girl. Extrapolate to big numbers and enjoy.
This is probably where we're never going to agree. Free speech until death my friend. Lol. If Hitler wants to be out there saying all his crap, I'm not going to stop him.


I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. Take a moderately sized woman, who has always been that size and is healthy. She tries to lose a lot of weight to become skinny. THIS is what I meant by unachievable, in the sense that is is not natural. Like me being fat. I could do it...maybe, but it sure as hell wouldn't be healthy.

In the end, women need to be told what size they should be by men. Deal with it, you bitch. :ninja:
Hahahaha :p Yeah that's what I mean by unachieveable as well, but I guess I'm also saying that even though it's probably out of the reasonable reach of most people, even for them it is not impossible, so we shouldn't be treating it as such.
 

Nebuchanezzar

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cd said:
If we're going to ban models who are supposedly too skinny then we should also be doing more to educate people about what a healthy self image and a healthy weight is - you only have to look at the number of people who are either way overweight or at risk of developing anorexia or whatever to realise anything we are doing is not working.
Yes.

It was more or less a footnote in PE at school (for me, I can't speak for anyone else), and if we're not even doing anything about it at that level what is getting rid of a few skeletons from a fashion show going to do?
Let's see! I say something. You say nothing. Comrade Rudd is in charge and he knows all! All bow down to Comrade Rudd and join in the 20 million strong march on his road to glory, salvation and social goodness!

This is probably where we're never going to agree. Free speech until death my friend. Lol. If Hitler wants to be out there saying all his crap, I'm not going to stop him.
:cold:

Good grief woman!

Surely we should evaluate everything according to its utility in society at large. Weighing benefits and such no? If not then what? What? WHAT!?!?!?!
 
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Doris + Nebs,

You both have valid arguments but here's another question: why is Rudd going through the long process of law reform on what is really a non-issue? There's so many bigger issues out there which the government fails to deal with:
- Overpopulation of Sydney coupled with a lack of infastructure (could be argued as a state issue)
- High speed internet/cable still remaining largely inadaquate in most of the country
- Enormous rates of recidivism
- The low socio-economic status of many indigenous people
- The teacher shortage and poor quality second generation of teachers we're about to see pumped into our school system.

Whilst often these issues are bottomless pits and don't win lower class voters such things need to be dealt with. I have no idea why Rudd invests so much time into banning art, thin models and the internet because even with their desired effect these do little for the Australian population.
 

Nebuchanezzar

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I agree with that, sadly. His efforts, at least what's reported in the media (for all I know he could be striving to achieve big things elsewhere), seems to be focused completely in the wrong directions.

You reminded me to create a thread though. :)
 

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Hopefully this is just filler, and Rudd implements some serious reforms later in his term.
 

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