Rock Sucks - alternative?? (2 Viewers)

[MouNtY]

I personally think that it's the classical musicians with the 'holier than thou' complex. It's like 'OMG, you're a rock musician? I'm so much better than you because i don't play mainstream, therefore making me different, making me better'

Classical musicians have this hoity toity act that goes with their music, and it's just as bad as how you guys think the ‘rockers’ act.

I myself am a singer and whilst I may not be able to read music as well as some musicians, and it may take me a while to learn things on other instruments. But I KNOW that you'll find that many singers can perform with as much heart and soul as any other type of musician, and at the end of the day, music is all about how well you perform, and how you can 'feel' music. It's all well and good to be able to read music like it's your favourite book, but if you can't perform it with feeling, then there's no point is there?

 

[oskarthestudent]

Bunk bunk.

 

[petrucci_dude]

oh god. you really SUCK dude. mm, i could give u an accumulation of all the famous rock bands i've gone to seen. i'm in a rock band myself silly boy..and hella yeh they are fixated on their looks. BEING a rockstar is half about how u rock it wit ur instrument.

we're talking about the STUDENTS here at school that think they can just rock up to school one day and sing some silly pop song and expecting they'd get full marks, and more often than not, they DO get full marks.

i'm not bothered picking up some argument about this..cos i know what i'm talking about, and u probably do too.

x

I don't suck and I'm sure none of the people on this forum do. However, some are lost.

I suggested you tear yourself away from MTV/Channel V, etc. and look into REAL rock bands. The rock bands and musicians that do it for the music. They are just as valid in the real world as a classical musician is. I'm not going to bother anymore. I got my point across, that's all that matters to me.

 

[oskarthestudent]

""""""Examiners are JUST LIKE YOU when it comes to the HSC, they are biased and they GENERALISE us rock musicians. As soon as they see a drummer with a huge kit and a guitarist with a Marshall stack they immediately jump to the conclusion that they're going to be shit to watch and ultimately, mark in the HSC."""""""

why do you think they jump to this (yes, unfair) conclusion?? - EXPERIENCE. So many kids pick up their instrument in year 11, adopt an unclean, unkempt look and play rock works in the hsc, is it any wonder the examiners jump to conclusions. THESE are the rockers im opposed to. If you can play vals venozalono 2 thats great, and I hope you use your technical abilities to do something about the standard of rock performance in the hsc, and get into uni. I have nothing whatsoever against a rocker who works hard at their instrument - my issue is with the fact that my school music faculty puts the 'fad' and 'poser' rockers before the serious classical players.

So far Ive been backing off more than arguing. But I cannot and will never aggree that rock music is as technically challenging. It may have escaped your notice, but, while being pretty hard technically, Vals Venozolano 2 does not represent the peak of guitar virtuosity. You don't say "yep, played vals venezolano 2 - thats the guitar mastered". Most would call the Lauro waltzes 'intermediate' at the hardest. There is no way on earth that Jimmi hendrix could play something like the Bach Chaccone 1004, or that paganini caprice transcription. Whereas John Williams has shown with his brief electric phase that even if he doesn't get the style right, he is at least just as technically acomplished on an electric. (no he didnt set it on fire, but is that really technical mastery or mastery of pyrotechnics?). There is just no way that the best of rock musicians can compare technically with the best of classics. I believe occasionally a soft cock rock band uses a 'key board'. Now are you going to argue that the rock 'keyboarder' is as technically accomplished as say, even my grandma on a keyboard? Same with guitar - It's not possible for a rocker to develop a technique as good as that of a classical guitarist. Rockers bairly even use the right hand - They ussuallu just 'pluck' with the first finger held clumsily against their thumb. This is because the electric guitar does not need a right hand technique. Once a string is sounded it continues to sound whatever notes the left hand 'fingers'. And even the left hand is simpler in some ways - you don't have to do technical slurs on a rock instrument. You just lift the finger off the string and it slurs. And don't say rockers play much faster either - of course they give the appearence of this: they don't have to use their right hand anywhere near as much. And don't say music isn't all technical, because classical musicians spend a lot of time considering interpretation, and as the music is more complex they have more complex ideas to interpret. Please don't say rock music is just as complex. To do so would just confirm that you really are dumb. I hold you in relativly high esteem as you gave the only descent argument in favour of rock, but if you say rock music is more complex, your stock will go down sharply.

 

[oskarthestudent]

I personally think that it's the classical musicians with the 'holier than thou' complex. It's like 'OMG, you're a rock musician? I'm so much better than you because i don't play mainstream, therefore making me different, making me better'

Classical musicians have this hoity toity act that goes with their music, and it's just as bad as how you guys think the ‘rockers’ act.

I myself am a singer and whilst I may not be able to read music as well as some musicians, and it may take me a while to learn things on other instruments. But I KNOW that you'll find that many singers can perform with as much heart and soul as any other type of musician, and at the end of the day, music is all about how well you perform, and how you can 'feel' music. It's all well and good to be able to read music like it's your favourite book, but if you can't perform it with feeling, then there's no point is there?

true. No point at all. When you say 'hoiti toity' I think you are reffering to the starched collar, well dressed, silent and apparantly 'stuck up' look of a classical musician. Let me tell you that the reason for dressing in a conservative way is nothing to do with class (many of the best classical composers were poor), nor does it have anything to do with a 'stuck up' holier than thou attitute. Think of this: if you turn up to perform a concert wearing something ''inncorrect'', 50% of the classical music audience (who are stuffy of course) will be more concerned with the clothing of the performer than the MUSIC. Therefore in dressing in a manner thats 'expected of them' classical musicians aim to ensure that the MUSIC is whats noticed.

Now turn your attention to Delta Goodrem for example. When she performs wearing, hmm, say, NOTHING - what are we focusing on - her appearence or the music?

Now look at the rockers. Do they draw attention to their appearence, or the music- Well, I think decapitating chickens, struting, and holding ones crotch contributes to the former.

 

[oskarthestudent]

I don't suck and I'm sure none of the people on this forum do. However, some are lost.

I suggested you tear yourself away from MTV/Channel V, etc. and look into REAL rock bands. The rock bands and musicians that do it for the music. They are just as valid in the real world as a classical musician is. I'm not going to bother anymore. I got my point across, that's all that matters to me.[/QUOTE']

'Just as valid'. Sure, artistically their just as valid.

So will all the rock musicians in the world accept to reduce their wages to that of their classical counterparts, who, working in the average symphony orchestra won't make much more than 30 thousand a year, despite playing more demanding music for longer hours???????

Or is this too much strain on their creative genius. I think the classical artist, who lives in anonymity and with less money, is the more valid artist, as they accept the crap money but do it anyway.

 

[petrucci_dude]

why do you think they jump to this (yes, unfair) conclusion?? - EXPERIENCE. So many kids pick up their instrument in year 11, adopt an unclean, unkempt look and play rock works in the hsc, is it any wonder the examiners jump to conclusions. THESE are the rockers im opposed to. If you can play vals venozalono 2 thats great, and I hope you use your technical abilities to do something about the standard of rock performance in the hsc, and get into uni. I have nothing whatsoever against a rocker who works hard at their instrument - my issue is with the fact that my school music faculty puts the 'fad' and 'poser' rockers before the serious classical players.

Good.

But I cannot and will never aggree that rock music is as technically challenging. It may have escaped your notice, but, while being pretty hard technically, Vals Venozolano 2 does not represent the peak of guitar virtuosity. You don't say "yep, played vals venezolano 2 - thats the guitar mastered".

I know. I haven't mastered any aspect of the guitar. I don't think anyone ever has mastered the guitar. There is ALWAYS something to be learnt.

Like I said, please tear yourself away from MTV/Mainstream Music channels. The Technically proficient rock guitar is out there, you just haven't seen it yet!

There is just no way that the best of rock musicians can compare technically with the best of classics.

But they do. You just haven't heard them because you are being ignorant. I agree also I haven't heard THE BEST classical musicians. But I have heard VERY extremely talented ones.

Same with guitar - It's not possible for a rocker to develop a technique as good as that of a classical guitarist. Rockers bairly even use the right hand - They ussuallu just 'pluck' with the first finger held clumsily against their thumb. This is because the electric guitar does not need a right hand technique. Once a string is sounded it continues to sound whatever notes the left hand 'fingers'. And even the left hand is simpler in some ways - you don't have to do technical slurs on a rock instrument. You just lift the finger off the string and it slurs. And don't say rockers play much faster either - of course they give the appearence of this: they don't have to use their right hand anywhere near as much. And don't say music isn't all technical, because classical musicians spend a lot of time considering interpretation, and as the music is more complex they have more complex ideas to interpret. Please don't say rock music is just as complex. To do so would just confirm that you really are dumb. I hold you in relativly high esteem as you gave the only descent argument in favour of rock, but if you say rock music is more complex, your stock will go down sharply.

Rock (which has many branches and this is what I am taking into consideration) is just as complex. If not, more complex at times. Depends what 'style' of Rock you are playing.

Strict alternate picking for example, requires more right hand co-ordination for Rock guitarists. Legato doesn't use much right hand at all, but to be able to control the left hand and make it smooth sounding, as the greats can do, requires as much practice as a classical musician would spend learning proper articulation techniques in a piece. Also, take into consideration that I am getting into the more "virtuosic rock" side of things, because you generalised, so I'm picking a genre to help back me in my opinions.

Here are some examples of GOOD Rock music. I know you are opposed to wannabee's but PLEASE take the time to listen to these very short samples of technique at it's absolute best on Rock guitar.

Firstly, open up any downloading programs you may have (and although I am against this and it's my favourite band) download a song by Dream Theater called "The Dance of Eternity". They don't use samples instead of real instruments either. It's all very real playing, I've seen them do it on DVD.

Angra - Angels and Demons - Only the guitar solos. I'm playing this for my HSC, almost exactly the same. And yes, it's very hard, but I'm used to it.
Dream Theater - Lie - 2nd guitar solo.
Nevermore - The River Dragon Has Come - guitar solo.
Dream Theater - Under a Glass Moon - The "who's who of guitar solos".
Liquid Tension Experiment - When the Water Breaks - A very short segment of a 17 minute song, showing a lovely Keyboard and Guitar unison. THIS IS HOW REAL ROCK MUSIC IS. MUSIC THAT IS MADE FOR THE SAKE OF THE MUSIC, NOT THE MONEY OR IMAGHE. LISTEN TO MEEEE!

 

[oskarthestudent]

I will listen - i'm tolerant (and pragmatic like Xerxes), just not now, im going to bed early after those killer trials I thought I argued well but ive never bothered to include downloadable musical examples, I only ever bother to name reccordings of top of head. thanks indeed for the effort.

 

[petrucci_dude]

Well I'm just trying to let everyone know that there IS rock out there where the musicians are unbelievably well trained and talented! Thanks if you do download them. They are all under 1mb each. I made them for you, so it's my personal selection from my CD collection. Hahaha...

 

[GoshuaBuff]

for those "classical" players out there,maybe its time u respected the "rockas" and for those "rockas" out there maybe its time u started to respect the "classical" players. All musicians have to respect each other no matter what instrument you play,what style of music you enjoy and what style of music you like to play.And lets please not forget the other musicians out there who dont classify themselves in either of those groups such as the jazz musicians for example.
As for me,I have come to respect all musicians and styles of music.My first music teacher who has been my teacher for 12 years is narrow minded hen it comes to musical styles and had me on the path of rock.As i came into High School i began lessons with another teacher and she is very open minded (although she would be classified as a classical musician).Now in year 12 i have grown to respect all musicians and all styles.I enjoy music from the baroque romantic and classical periods.I like rock and artists such as AC/DC.I listen to acapella's,danger music,popular music (and everything that encaptures).I may not like heavy metal and rap but i still respect what they can do and respect their talents.
My music class has only 8 people(4 doing music 1 and 4 doing music 2+extension).There is a flautist,clarinet player,2 classical vocalists,2 saxophone players a trumpet player and myself.This helps me to be more respectful of all musical styles and all musicians.My favourite style however is definitely jazz and the amazing talents of the legendary Buddy Rich.
Yes,you may be surprised but this is actually coming from a drummer.(I do also play piano,guitar and i sing).So please,everyone has to learn to respect all musicians and all styles,wether you like them or not.
P.S. That also means no more drummer jokes!!!!! LOL
Oh and im having trouble finder drum pieces that are hard enough for me to play for my HSC and if anyone can help me find something that would be great.At the moment i have two pieces
1).An arrangement of the jazz piece "CUTE"
2).A piece i wrote myself for three drumkits
PLEASE HELP!!! LOL

 

[lukeypoo88]

WOW Gosh-U-R-Buff that was a comment with a lot of feeling lol. I never knew you had written something for 3 drum kits why the hell arent you playing it for the instrument and its rep thing we have to do next week that would be smart lol.... "amazing talents of the legendary Buddy Rich"

 

[ur_inner_child]

for those "classical" players out there,maybe its time u respected the "rockas" and for those "rockas" out there maybe its time u started to respect the "classical" players. All musicians have to respect each other no matter what instrument you play,what style of music you enjoy and what style of music you like to play.And lets please not forget the other musicians out there who dont classify themselves in either of those groups such as the jazz musicians for example.
As for me,I have come to respect all musicians and styles of music.My first music teacher who has been my teacher for 12 years is narrow minded hen it comes to musical styles and had me on the path of rock.As i came into High School i began lessons with another teacher and she is very open minded (although she would be classified as a classical musician).Now in year 12 i have grown to respect all musicians and all styles.I enjoy music from the baroque romantic and classical periods.I like rock and artists such as AC/DC.I listen to acapella's,danger music,popular music (and everything that encaptures).I may not like heavy metal and rap but i still respect what they can do and respect their talents.
My music class has only 8 people(4 doing music 1 and 4 doing music 2+extension).There is a flautist,clarinet player,2 classical vocalists,2 saxophone players a trumpet player and myself.This helps me to be more respectful of all musical styles and all musicians.My favourite style however is definitely jazz and the amazing talents of the legendary Buddy Rich.
Yes,you may be surprised but this is actually coming from a drummer.(I do also play piano,guitar and i sing).So please,everyone has to learn to respect all musicians and all styles,wether you like them or not.

Funnily enough, I agree with you on a lot of points

Although I slip into phases here and there about the quality of music.

As for loving every type of musical style and all musicians, no way can I do that with 50 cent and anyone else that share similarities. lol.

A piece you wrote for three drumkits... hmmm... How are you going about that compositionally? Just curious. It sounds very interesting.

Oh and I just died when you said you loved Buddy Rich

<3

i'm sorry but i can play ne thing ne rock guitarist in my school can, from ear.

I can play Beethoven by ear, but I don't claim to be better than him...

Just because you can play it doesn't mean you are better than the composer

It's a different skill, to write something amazing than to play something amazing, and the ability to possess both.

 

[littlewing69]

Hendrix is god.


But the classical occasionally gets some loving from me when I'm in the right mood to listen to it.

 

[ryanhanigan666]

alright enough of everyone's bitching and all that shit. i'm a metal player and in my school metal heads and real musicians ,i.e. piano, violin, flute players are a minority and the punk fuckers and pop c***'s get all the fucking attention. my gf plays piano and violin and shes awesome at it. she doesnt get to play at performances cause all the punk fuckers say "get off the stage" and shit like that. they're are pathetic lowlife forms of faecal matter on an atom. you guys may be saying rock is crap but hey some people say the same bout classical. i like a bit of classical now and again and thats all you hear on rpg gameswhere contemporary composers like Nobou Uematsu compose the scores. Genius of man. classical, string and woodwind stuff are cool as well you just gotta listen to the music.

 

[jjames-hall]

just for the record comparing classical and rock guitarists is like comparing a rock to a spanish pencil. Two completely different styles, skills each with their own sounds and technique. Its like saying who's the best guitarist, there is none! All are different

 

[xxshatteredxx]

Its not right to say that rock is bad and everyone who rocks (lol ) hates classical.

 

[MajestyofRock]

Mate how about u try playing tornado of souls by megadeth completely including solo and singing it

 

[phat/bennett]

HA! Rock, Classical, rock, classical...all good, but guitarists everywhere, utilise your schools rock equipment and play JAZZ!!!

Yay Jazz! YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY Blah Blah Blah!!! Be doo Be Bah Dah Bo Bee Do Da Bee Dum Dee Da Charlie Parker Ba Doo Ba Dee Ba Dee Montgomery ba doo bee Pass Ba Doo Bee Benson Ba Doo Bee YAY!!!

 

[jamesm88]

haha this is an awesome thread.

i've been classically trained in cornet since i was 7, and ive been playing guitar for the last 5 years. that being said, i love brass bands, and i love brutal metal.

i understand exactly where you guys are coming from, your beef is with the jerks that buy the shiniest pointiest guitar they can find, knowing little to nothing about the finer points of instrument quality, learn a few chords, buy a 'marshall amplification' tshirt and say 'music is my life, man'

then pack it in 6 months later.

and its definitely true that hendix couldnt play paganini, but thats not why we love him we love him because HE WROTE LITTLE WING, AND HE WROTE BOLD AS LOVE and all that stuff and then played it like nobody else could.

and its also true that tornado of souls is a bitch of a thing to play + sing + solo. if you want to play anything marty friedman is responisble for, dont make any plans for the next 3 years.

rock on

 

[FolkMusicIsTops]

Contemporary guitar pieces with lots of different techniques in them (like John Renbourn) are always good