Religion: Does It Do More Harm Than Good? (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

Here is the crux though: Would society really benefit from the loss of religion? And would banning religion really be "freedom"? Wouldn't that just be another form of oppression.

My strategy:

- Teach society how to think critically.
- Put in place measures to stop all forms of childhood indoctrination.
- The end to religion will come naturally.

 

[Ellie_Belly]

I find it sad that people like soha come on to these threads and get absolutely attacked. I'm not going to pretend I understand her religion. I don't even understand my own properley. But honestly, going by the title of the thread, we have an answer to that question right in this thread - just look at the way people replied to soha.

 

[Enlightened_One]

My strategy:

- Teach society how to think critically.
- Put in place measures to stop all forms of childhood indoctrination.
- The end to religion will come naturally.

That is a contradiction. Some people consider education a form of indoctrination. How can you teach anybody anything without influencing them in some way.

Ellie Belly it may seem harsh but go and read the other posts concerning religion and then you'll understand where it was all coming from. Though they did take it too far, perhaps.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I find it sad that people like soha come on to these threads and get absolutely attacked. I'm not going to pretend I understand her religion. I don't even understand my own properley. But honestly, going by the title of the thread, we have an answer to that question right in this thread - just look at the way people replied to soha.

You would love it if your whacky views could get equal credence out there in society and in this thread... we should treat all beliefs as equal right?

Sorry but that thinking has lead us to the situation we have in america today.

That is a contradiction. Some people consider education a form of indoctrination. How can you teach anybody anything without influencing them in some way.

I agree with them, I think the way we often teach these days is indoctrination - I think students should be taught how to think critically and come to their own conclusions... Of course some course material has to be provided, but all of this should be criticised openly using scientific method by the students.

First we need to teach people how to think critically (which is a methodology rather than a guide to what you must believe), then we need to offer them what we think we know.

 

[davin]

yes, othewise we would become like the US is at the moment.

what are you talking about?


though yeah, i agree with withoutaface saying "Religion should not be banned, but it's best that the government of a society is secular."

 

[Ellie_Belly]

You would love it if your whacky views could get equal credence out there in society and in this thread... we should treat all beliefs as equal right?

My whacky views? Ooookay.

Treating all beliefs as equal is your choice. I didn't enforce it upon you. I'm just stating my opinion seeing as I'm entitled to do so.

 

[Mongke]

what are you talking about?


though yeah, i agree with withoutaface saying "Religion should not be banned, but it's best that the government of a society is secular."

thats what im saying.

if people are educated correctly then they will question what they have been taught. someone’s sig says something along the lines of: an educated mind can entertain a point of view without agreeing with it. i recon its true.

 

[Enlightened_One]

thats what im saying.

if people are educated correctly then they will question what they have been taught. someone’s sig says something along the lines of: an educated mind can entertain a point of view without agreeing with it. i recon its true.

That was Aristotle. I think. And that's a very good point.


And Ellie, as we have discussed in other threads the doctrine of islam is to force their views on others and not to accept the views of others as valid, therefore they will not treat you equal. Hence the controversy over the cartoons and free speech. Soha can refute this sensibly if she cares to.

 

[Mongke]

That was Aristotle. I think. And that's a very good point.

sounds like an ancient Greek thing doesnt it? i think i remember it being Socraties tho.... cant quite recall.

 

[Enlightened_One]

sounds like an ancient Greek thing doesnt it? i think i remember it being Socraties tho.... cant quite recall.

I just googled it. It's definetly Aristotle.

 

[Mongke]

I just googled it. It's definetly Aristotle.

cool

 

[Enlightened_One]

The actual quote is: "The mark of an educated mind is to entertain an idea without accepting it." Allow for slight variations though.

Socialism's biggest flaw is the fact that it needs perfect people for it to work. Socialism would be easily undermined by greed and other human shortcomings.

 

[Mongke]

Aristotle: Something along the lines of, Education is the ability to entertain a point of view without subscribing to it.

We're not in an ideal world, socialism does have some good qualities but it'll never be properly implemented. Freedom and equality are at odds with base human nature, they're fantastic ideas, but they'll never happen.

well i agree with the last para, its not possible. but you can get educated like that. i was, and i went to a concervative orthadox school. sorry if i got that wrong, you dont agree with Aristotle right?

 

[Enlightened_One]

well i agree with the last para, its not possible. but you can get educated like that. i was, and i went to a concervative orthadox school. sorry if i got that wrong, you dont agree with Aristotle right?

Agree with Aristotle about what? I agree with the idea that you should be able to grasp an idea and understand but not accept it.

What are you sorry about?

 

[Mongke]

Agree with Aristotle about what? I agree with the idea that you should be able to grasp an idea and understand but not accept it.

What are you sorry about?

no, i was asking Shroedinger, just wanted to make sure i got his stance on Aristole correct.

 

[Mountain.Dew]

Socialism's biggest flaw is the fact that it needs perfect people for it to work. Socialism would be easily undermined by greed and other human shortcomings.

agreed wholeheartedly. thats why pretty much all communist states have failed - Russia the biggest loser of all. China is moving away from communism ever so gradually, moreso in an economical sense (e.g. privatising government owned companies and industries like telecommunications). politically, it is still 'communistic' in a way, but its good to hear that at least local villagers in remote areas get to vote and discuss in meetings dedicated to planning their future and village. the smell of democracy is there. Damn Google. Why did u have to compromise your integrity for more money when you launched google.cn?

Ah well...what can u do...greed is human nature.

anyway, back on topic...

i think inherently religions are intolerant of each other. think about it. its pretty obvious that most of the threads in this sub-forum revolves around muslims and christians, and the conflict they always seem to have between them. think about the crusades. now that goes back a LONG LONG time ago. all for the possession of a single city, jerusalem. and i thought jerusalem allowed jewish, muslim AND christian prilgrims in their holy city at the time.

and now, we have the gulf war, almost a predecessor to the crusades. of course muslims have no choice but to flght back to try and reclaim back their lands.

church and state do not go well together. the church wants people to follow their "THE" religion and condone others, while the state (in our democratic system) they aim to allow religious freedom.

and many people raised the point that religion is good because it teaches morals and guidelines and and all these goody goody things.

my question is: do you necessarily need 'religion' to have a sense of morals or ethics?

i think the crux lies with this:

who has the responsiblity to govern people's lives? i say the state - ie its health, education, transport, defence, welfare etc...systems - has that ultimate authority AND responsibility, not the church or any other religious sect. this may not be true a few hundred years ago, but now, it is different. religion has lost its intended 'purpose' somehow, although its core purpose of following a certain diety remains. and that has kinda cracked society as such as well.

i bring your attention to hillsong. they are a fanatical financial machine. loud speakers, large LCD TVs, christian rock bands, the whole lot. a bunch of fanatical, over-the-top evangelists. the scary thing is they actually "PERSUADE" you to give donations to their cause - to buy more stuff - more houses, larger cars...

...isnt religion suppose to push away and ignore material possessions and embrace spiritual attointment, in order to reach out and better follow their diety?

i'll leave it at that, i'll bound to add more fuel to the fire.

 

[volition]

What about the fact that some people's loyalties are to their religion rather than their country?

From this page: http://www.immi.gov.au/multicultural/australian/index.htm

All Australians are expected to have an overriding loyalty to Australia and its people, and to respect the basic structures and principles underwriting our democratic society. These are the Constitution, parliamentary democracy, freedom of speech and religion, English as the national language, the rule of law, acceptance and equality.

Freedom of speech?? That couldn't exist in a Muslim country, just have a look at what happened in response to the Muhammed cartoons.

Equality??? probably not, if women are treated as 'lesser'

 

[Lord Hawthorn]

What would there be without the belief in God but emptiness, materialism and corruption?

Ultimately though, I believe humans need a religion to govern their morality lest they fall into corruption... (which is all too... blatant in this "modern world of liberty") Also, the conflict between muslims and christians... I believe our God and Allah are one and the same... some teachings seem to be different... but it's only the culture which they have been formed in that has changed them - just like when sunday was changed to sabbath as opposed to saturday, the true sabbath (God forgive me if Allah is not one of his names) It is not people who are deeply religious that are at fault, it is people who falsely under the guise of religion misuse it for their own means. The prophecies came true... there are forces at work which none of our misbegotten race can explain, except with the word supernatural. The dillusions many people face are but a simple ploy of the evil one. Besides, if you know good and true christian people (or other religious people) you would indeed understand that religion (except when it is abused by people with UNRELIGIOUS motives) is a good thing... My religious friends are very nice people (most of them - the ones that aren't all that nice just aren't really christian all that much...) .... and what is this goody goody thing... don't you prefer nice and good people as opposed to mean and heartless people? money hungering and warmongers... it seems that "cool" is degenerate... I can see the devil is having his cake and eating it... that malignant serpentine coward of old...
I would however agree that in most occurences of the state and church becoming one the power has been abused (by people with unreligious motives, mind you... or ignorant fanatics... the ignorant are the easiest to manipulate by the powerful. Notice how quite a few of those terrorists and suicide bombers are uneducated...)

The prophecies were fulfilled... just try to rationalise it.

http://www.prophecyseminaronline.com/

 

[Lord Hawthorn]

It seems like you don't appreciate anything, my good friend... so be it... God still loves you. And he will no matter what you say. Even if the blood of ten thousand flowed because of you're hand God would still love you. I pray that the demon within you is banished from you... I will be praying for you Damage Inc.

 

[Lord Hawthorn]

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