Raped by her uncle, but can she have an abortion? (2 Viewers)

[inasero]

Actually i am completely wrong , i just checked , it was life for life , in other words unborn child was regarded as a 'person'.
(in exodus , if a woman is striked and caused to have baby prematurely....i thought it was just a fine as opposed to a life , i was wrong , sorry)

"Finally is the issue of performing an abortion to save the mother's life. When it occurs, however, the rationale is not that the fetus is seen to have less value than the mother, but that if no action is taken both will die. Aborting the fetus at least saves the mother's life."
www.cmf.org.uk

 

[*TRUE*]

What if the mother and the child are definitely going to die?

What if the mother is going to die but the child would live? What if the mother is going to die and it's twins and one of the children is going to die, what do you do?

What if the child is a harlequin baby and it's going to die regardless of being delivered? Wouldn't you want to reduce the suffering of the mother.

It's about the reduction of suffering, not the sanctity of human life. You're missing the point of this debate.

Your points are also my concerns.
I hate abortion.
But....thats because i love people....so how do you choose between people?
Do you just leave it to chance? what if both then die?
If it was my mum , id want to keep her , she already means something pretty important in the world and is needed.... but is that fair?
IDK. Maybe you just have to make the best decision you can at the time , and make it yourself...without everyone else throwing in their two cents

 

[emytaylor164]

Your points are also my concerns.
I hate abortion.
But....thats because i love people....so how do you choose between people?
Do you just leave it to chance? what if both then die?
If it was my mum , id want to keep her , she already means something pretty important in the world and is needed.... but is that fair?
IDK. Maybe you just have to make the best decision you can at the time , and make it yourself...without everyone else throwing in their two cents

I completely agree there about the best decision at the time thing.

 

[emytaylor164]

I think that abortion is generally wrong but there is always grey area.

 

[*TRUE*]

Wait so your morals your absolutist morals are impinged by circumstances?

I dont know if you are talking to me or emy.
Im saying i dont know what IS moral in the above scenario.

 

[emytaylor164]

I dont know if you are talking to me or emy.
Im saying i dont know what IS moral in the above scenario.

yeah like grey area, i have said that on numerous occasions within this thread.

 

[emytaylor164]

Which means you can't claim it is murder.

umm yes i can. how come out of all the times i have said there is grey area you only start arguing about it now?

 

[*TRUE*]

Which means you can't claim it is murder.

Yes she can?
Killing people isnt always murder is it? how about self defence?
Motive surely comes into these things somehow?

 

[emytaylor164]

Yes she can?
Killing people isnt always murder is it? how about self defence?
Motive surely comes into these things somehow?

exactly

 

[ur_inner_child]

I do not know if one sin is worse then another i have wondered that myself.

From my seriously catholic upbringing, it is to my understanding that no sin is greater than the other, except the denial of God/Jesus. It is the idea that we are ALL sinners. To me, personally, it merely made me feel that I was never in the position to judge others for their sins, as I was a sinner myself.

(Then I did the ultimate sin and reject God entirely etc)

 

[inasero]

her church might not have stuck to Catholic doctrine to the letter...I mean I've heard of charismatic Catholic churches

with Christian belief you get the whole gamut of doctrinal beliefs. Most of the differences are only minor (e.g. infant baptism, gifts of the Holy Spirit etc.) but there are some pretty "out there" denominations.

 

[Enteebee]

look i'm pretty sure that the reason incest has been a social taboo in most societies (notwithstanding my religious views) is because of the increase in congenital malformations and diseases. From a purely medical POV, the closer you're related to someone else, the more your DNA will match with theirs (say compared to someone you're not related to). That includes inherited genetic defects or mutations.

Nah that's not really why it's such a social taboo... I mean that's one theory but it doesn't really cut the mustard entirely, for me anyway. Other ideas are that if incest were allowed it would destroy the structure of the family unit, children would be less likely to marry outside of their family forming bonds with other 'clans' which strengthen both.

 

[Enteebee]

her church might not have stuck to Catholic doctrine to the letter...I mean I've heard of charismatic Catholic churches

with Christian belief you get the whole gamut of doctrinal beliefs. Most of the differences are only minor (e.g. infant baptism, gifts of the Holy Spirit etc.) but there are some pretty "out there" denominations.

And then you've got the fact that people will just pick and choose what they want to believe anyway, I doubt there'd be any one man I could go to who would offer me the same answers to a large list of moral questsions as you would.

 

[emytaylor164]

I think that is ok to go against what the church says though esspecially if the teachings are not inline with the bible

 

[Kwayera]

Nah that's not really why it's such a social taboo... I mean that's one theory but it doesn't really cut the mustard entirely, for me anyway. Other ideas are that if incest were allowed it would destroy the structure of the family unit, children would be less likely to marry outside of their family forming bonds with other 'clans' which strengthen both.

I don't think that's accurate. It's a social taboo because it's in line with our instinctual and genetic disgust of inbreeding; even if it were legally allowed, and removed as a social taboo, I don't think it would destroy the family unit at all apart from a few and extremely rare (for the main human population) cases.

So inasero is actually correct in this case.

 

[ur_inner_child]

her church might not have stuck to Catholic doctrine to the letter...I mean I've heard of charismatic Catholic churches

with Christian belief you get the whole gamut of doctrinal beliefs. Most of the differences are only minor (e.g. infant baptism, gifts of the Holy Spirit etc.) but there are some pretty "out there" denominations.

Meh

I heard on triple j about "catholics" who quoted something along the lines of "cleanse your body until the water runs clear" from the bible, and somehow justified their holy enemas.

Yeah.

 

[Enteebee]

I don't think that's accurate. It's a social taboo because it's in line with our instinctual and genetic disgust of inbreeding; even if it were legally allowed, and removed as a social taboo, I don't think it would destroy the family unit at all apart from a few and extremely rare (for the main human population) cases.

So inasero is actually correct in this case.

You've used fairly odd language here... I mean I'm proposing it as the cause for the social taboo then you're saying if you removed it as a taboo it still wouldn't happen... because it would still be a taboo.

edit: Nevermind that I was actually saying inasero's idea isn't the complete picture but that there are other forces at play.

 

[Kwayera]

Well the point is that our genetic disgust of incest is the very basis of our social taboo - if we didn't find it disgusting, it wouldn't be a taboo in the first place.

If you remove the social stigma against it, it still would be a 'genetic' taboo.

 

[emytaylor164]

Meh

I heard on triple j about "catholics" who quoted something along the lines of "cleanse your body until the water runs clear" from the bible, and somehow justified their holy enemas.

Yeah.

so what was said to make you reject God?

 

[Enteebee]

Well the point is that our genetic disgust of incest is the very basis of our social taboo - if we didn't find it disgusting, it wouldn't be a taboo in the first place.

If you remove the social stigma against it, it still would be a 'genetic' taboo.

You can go and declare that all you want but the fact remains that there are problems with such genetic theories as there may be issues with more culture centric theories, which would be why I said his theory doesn't tell the whole picture. I mean... personally I'd tend to want some form of a genetic approach but there's definitely room for debate here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest_taboo