Raped by her uncle, but can she have an abortion? (2 Viewers)

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Ok no that I agree, but if you believe that a fetus is a human life, equal to that of a baby, then to abort it is to murder it.

So as horrible as giving birth to the rape baby would be for the mother, it does not outweigh the fetus' right to live.

I understand. I take the position that in this case, the best choice is abortion. Neither option is particularly palatable but this is an extreme case and you've just got to pick what's best for the girl. Well, that's how I see it, anyway.

 

[boris]

If you accept the fetus is a human life with equal rights then obviously yes. The right to live > the right to have control in your life.

The only disagreement I have with this is that I think an existing life and the rights of an exisiting being > than that of an entity that still relies on its mother as a vessel to support its life.

 

[Graney]

But what right does the fetus have to life?

I'm trying to think of a clear reason why a fetus isn't as valuable as any other human life? Just because it is dependent doesn't seem a simple enough reason, unless we are also going to consider other dependent human life, e.g. the disabled as also removed from the right to life, and the legal and moral protection that involves.

If anything, a fetus has a greater right to life than the most severly disabled, as it has the potential to become a functioning human being.

 

[Riet]

I think the simple fact that it is more than likely they will both die if the pregnancy is left to go to full term should make it quite easy to see what is necssary.

 

[Riet]

Foetuses don't breath. There, it's that simple.

 

[boris]

I'm trying to think of a clear reason why a fetus isn't as valuable as any other human life? Just because it is dependent doesn't seem a simple enough reason, unless we are also going to consider other dependent human life, e.g. the disabled as also removed from the right to life, and the legal and moral protection that involves.

If anything, a fetus has a greater right to life than the most severly disabled, as it has the potential to become a functioning human being.

It also has the potential to not become a fully functional human being.

You're playing with odds either way.

 

[boris]

But babies are still totally relient on their mothers even after birth. Should we therefore allow post-natal abortions until the child can care for themself?

I'm talking in terms of being able to breathe and have a circulation that is not dependent on the health of the mother.

Also, I would be extremely suprised if this fetus does not end up having complications or abnormalities and there is no guarantee the fetus will survive, either for a full term pregnancy or after birth.

Still, all fetus's are unviable until they're actually born. There is no law that says a healthy pregnancy will result in a healthy baby 100% of the time, shit happens.

 

[Graney]

It also has the potential to not become a fully functional human being.

And society believes in the protection and rights of non-fully functional human beings.

I'm beginning to think perhaps it is always wrong to end any life which cannot consent to it's own demise. Can anyone link an explanation why a fetus =/= a human life in value?

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

I think the simple fact that it is more than likely they will both die if the pregnancy is left to go to full term should make it quite easy to see what is necssary.

This.

Losing one life is better than two.

Also....she's eleven. I can't get past that fact. She's eleven. Nobody that young should have to go through pregnancy and childbirth especially when said circumstances have been forced upon them.

 

[Riet]

Can anyone link an explanation why a fetus =/= a human life in value?

It. Can't. Breathe.

Oh, and before you propose it, I don't think people who are never going to recover should be kept in a vegetative state either.

 

[Graney]

It. Can't. Breathe.

Plenty of people can't.

 

[boris]

And society believes in the protection and rights of non-fully functional human beings.

I'm beginning to think perhaps it is always wrong to end any life which cannot consent to it's own demise. Can anyone link an explanation why a fetus =/= a human life in value?

I'm sure a lot of people can explain why a fetus and a human life are of equal value, and there are some who can explain why they aren't.


I've outlined in this and the other abortion thread, several times, why I don't think the rights of a fetus are equal to or greater than that of a living human being.

 

[boris]

Plenty of people can't.

And it's about now where I add that I support euthanasia

 

[Riet]

Plenty of people can't.

But a foetus has never breathed before either.

 

[Riet]

Oh, any people disagreeing with me on a religious grounds can now shut the fuck up.

The Hebrew Bible refers to God breathing the breath of life into clay to make Adam a living soul (nephesh, roughly "breather"). It also refers to the breath as returning to God when a mortal dies.

The usage of the word Nephesh by the Holy Spirit in the Word of God is the only guide to the true understanding of it. It will be seen that the word "soul", in its theological sense, does not cover all the ground, or properly represent the Hebrew word "Nephesh". The English word "soul" is from the Latin solus = alone or sole, because the maintenance of man as a living organism, and all that affects his health and well-being, is the one sole or main thing in common with every living thing which the LORD God has made. The correct Latin word for the theological term "soul" (or Nephesh) is anima; and this is from the Greek anemos = air or breath, because it is this which keeps the whole in life and in being.

Where are any passages in the bible that state that life starts at conception? Because it's quite clear that in god's opinion one does not have a soul until they breath (and can not be condemned until they are baptised).

 

[justanotherposter]

And it's about now where I add that I support euthanasia

as do i. i would personally not live at all than live like a vegetable and i think people should have the right to make that decision if they so wish.

i never said i would force her to go through with it i disagree with it but it is her decision to make

OK - let me get this straight. You disagree with a 11year old girls decision to abort a incestuous baby conceived from rape?

I agree with this comment about you:

Your posts make me wish post-natal abortions were legal so I could give your mother a shotgun and tell her to get on with it.

How dare you talk about abortion like it's more heinous than what has already happened to this girl. You said it yourself, you have no idea what she is going through. And I guarantee if this was you you'd be rethinking your ideals pretty damn hard.

Have some compassion.

You have some fucked up ideals if you disagree with abortion in this situation. I don't mind if people have a problem with abortion generally but this is obviously a exceptional case (scaredytiger put it nicely ).

I don't believe you religious nuts believe that god wants a 11yearold to give birth to a child conceived by her rapist uncle. It's still just a fetus ffs.

 

[townie]

11 + rape + incest = 3 strikes, foetus is out!

 

[Graney]

Peter Singer is a hero, I shall try to remember "we should look at the foetus for what it is - the actual characteristics it possesses - and value its life accordingly."

 

[ur_inner_child]

i do not have an idea what she is going thorugh but it is a BABY. I think you will find an 11 year old would not carry full term, let alone go through a normal birth process

If it were YOUR DAUGHTER that was raped, you BABY DAUGHTER that was raped by your fucking BROTHER...

Christ I am so disgusted I can't even finish what I started writing.

 

[boris]

If it were YOUR DAUGHTER that was raped, you BABY DAUGHTER that was raped by your fucking BROTHER...

Christ I am so disgusted I can't even finish what I started writing.

I know, dude, I had to resort to size 7 caps.

It's not even about being pro or anti abortion anymore, it's about the safety and well being of an 11 year old child carrying and incestuous rape fetus. Why can't they understand this.