Query on Vacation Work (1 Viewer)

[jelly]

lol didn't know that bout Deloitte. Wouldnt really want them anyway - they're like what PwCLegal is to law firms.

on scale of growth, KPMG is growing the fastest - they're exceeding their 10% revenue target atm. the others are growing too, but not as fast.

PwC actually just offered more grad spots - most likely because most people who get PwC and another offer usually reject PwC!! (its general consensus that PwC's basically just the name/reputation, even those friends who've done vacation work there, or even accepted an offer there). Of my cohort who got PwC and another offer(s), only 1 actually chose PwC over the other offer(s) - and it was because she was guilt-tripped into accepting it by all the goodies PwC gave her.

KPMG takes a diverse range of people (shy/loud people), but they all seem to be genuinely friendly and open. around 75% of the offers it gave seemed to be to UNSW ppl in my year.

but yeh, basically, you take what you can get. if u get more than one offer, its a god-send and u can pick and choose one which u like best, culture wise.

 

[seremify007]

lol didn't know that bout Deloitte. Wouldnt really want them anyway - they're like what PwCLegal is to law firms.

on scale of growth, KPMG is growing the fastest - they're exceeding their 10% revenue target atm. the others are growing too, but not as fast.

PwC actually just offered more grad spots - most likely because most people who get PwC and another offer usually reject PwC!! (its general consensus that PwC's basically just the name/reputation, even those friends who've done vacation work there, or even accepted an offer there). Of my cohort who got PwC and another offer(s), only 1 actually chose PwC over the other offer(s) - and it was because she was guilt-tripped into accepting it by all the goodies PwC gave her.

KPMG takes a diverse range of people (shy/loud people), but they all seem to be genuinely friendly and open. around 75% of the offers it gave seemed to be to UNSW ppl in my year.

but yeh, basically, you take what you can get. if u get more than one offer, its a god-send and u can pick and choose one which u like best, culture wise.

I'm not going to get into an argument defending my firm nor will I argue with your so-called "concensus" because whilst my friends (whom also had choices between big4 firms; some picked PwC, some picked EY, some picked KPMG) & grad statistics would disagree with you otherwise (IIRC CFO Magazine claimed there was something like an 85% offer-acceptance rate), based on my own experience and my sister's experience- I quite liked the firm, and I also quite liked the place I did work exp.

You seem to be quite opinionated on the Big4, may I ask if you work in the industry? It would appear you might have been offered a spot at KPMG, but then I could be wrong.

 

[jelly]

I know alot of Commerce grad friends in each of the 4 firms, and I've just been through the summer vaccie process so in both cases everyone's been talking about this and that firm which is how we've come to know these things about each firm. You guys can take it on board if you want, or just dismiss it and go with what others have said.

I'm doing tax @ kpmg. Law firms work you way too hard. There are other things more important than work and money.

Oh btw..hey guys, talkin bout cadetship stuff. Your uni years are unique - it's where u'll have time to make alot of friends, be involved with campus clubs etc, christian groups if your christian, but if you do a cadetship, that makes it really hard to do that. Working full time and studying part time is a real slog. I know that from friends who've done cadetships and even co-op scholarships where they've had industrial training to do.

They come back from 1 session of f/t industrial training and p/t study and they feel as though everyone's moved on and suddenly they're outta the loop. Cadetships are really good b/c you have a foot in the door with a major acct firm, but yeh, think about what you might be giving up. In the end it might not be worth it if you applied grad/vaccie and got a position with them anyway. Never in ur life will u have 12-14hrs a week of classes (for commerce) and the rest of the week to bum and do other stuff (thats why so many grads go on a big o/s holiday before they start work cos they know they'll be working the rest of their lives - kinda depressing aint it).

Anyways I'm not tellin you guys what to do, its just some food for thought dudes.

btw. hope u guys are caning ur hsc exams! i feel for the history and eco ppls. haha i did that too, timetable hasnt changed much =)

 

[seremify007]

I dunno... I don't really have that much of a social life so I'm not really worried about giving stuff up; and no offence to uni ppl/clubs but from what I've heard (from uni friends) alot of the ppl seem to only join clubs purely for the title to put on their resume and contribute jack crap- my tutors recommended that because I don't need to do that, I only join one or two clubs I'm passionate about and then contribute to them as much as I can. Ironically you say there's more to life than 'money' yet you are a tax accountant^^

Btw to be honest, I don't think I'd get in if I applied at grad level =P... I probably would be outdone by the aforementioned mass-club-joiners in extra curricular activities, by my peers who've had part time jobs (work experience which i don't have), probably superior academic achievements, and my references from yr10 work experience would probably become insignificant... That's just my view- it seems grad spots are much more competitive, and if I'm willing to give up a bit of fun now in exchange for higher chance of job later on, then I guess that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Although I can understand if other ppl don't see things the way I do- it's just my choice =]

Oh and finally, congrats on getting kpmg =]... I have quite a few mates who work there (both from my sister's time and "my generation")! KPMG has a very 'down to earth' feel to them which is something I admire^^ On a side note, (you don't need to heed to my advice) I don't think it's wise to speak lowly of other firms- you never know where you might be in 10 years time^^

 

[jelly]

tax consultant. its different from an auditor. its basically doing tax law stuff, doing returns for corps or high wealth persons.
u can get rich and all, but, in the end. everyone still dies. naked u come in, naked u go out. in the end, money and career is worthless.

its not too hard to get a grad place at a big 4 if u have decent marks, some extracurricular stuff, and even some work experience. they're competitive, but not that hard to get. not like law firms.

 

[seremify007]

ROFL the irony is that it's a Premiers Award student saying that^^ I put a lot of effort in during high school doing extra curricular stuff (although I did like it) and I figured might as well get somewhere now rather than later; save me the trouble of having to do it later...

I may be in selective high but IMO this cadetship thing has made me feel somewhat better and lessened the pressures of getting a super high UAI. I doubt I'll even make the school average but.. bleh I dun mind^^ You'll probably call me lame but I wanted to get into cadetship for like... 4 years >_> (My sis did it 7 years ago) because it seemed good and for some reason, I really wanted to get a 'suit job' straight away.

Anyway, congrats again and I hope you will/are enjoying it!

 

[Sarah]

Oh btw..hey guys, talkin bout cadetship stuff. Your uni years are unique - it's where u'll have time to make alot of friends, be involved with campus clubs etc, christian groups if your christian, but if you do a cadetship, that makes it really hard to do that. Working full time and studying part time is a real slog. I know that from friends who've done cadetships and even co-op scholarships where they've had industrial training to do.

Yeh i agree. I use to be more career focused than i am now but i'm content to enjoy my uni years and make the most out of them! There are ppl i know of who have given up co-op scholarships or cadetships due to the same reason.

I dunno... I don't really have that much of a social life so I'm not really worried about giving stuff up; and no offence to uni ppl/clubs but from what I've heard (from uni friends) alot of the ppl seem to only join clubs purely for the title to put on their resume and contribute jack crap- my tutors recommended that because I don't need to do that, I only join one or two clubs I'm passionate about and then contribute to them as much as I can. Ironically you say there's more to life than 'money' yet you are a tax accountant^^

Serimify, I use to have that attitude when i entered into uni i.e but in the end, you do end up having a social life. True ppl do joins clubs and societies to put stuff onto their resume but ppl also join clubs and societies also because they genuinely want to contribute something towards the uni community or to the club itself. Plus joining clubs and societies is a great way to meet ppl and make friends!

Anyway, it seems like you're focused and know what you want so i'm sure you'll enjoy working and the subjects you choose.

As to working in tax... umm... i thought u didn't need an accounting background to do so?

 

[seremify007]

Well I don't know what vac/grad is like but the ppl who I know who are doing tax for cadetships are mainly ppl who expect to do Comm/Law at UNSW- they don't need to do CA though; they do Masters of Tax instead.

 

[jelly]

...the Premier's was a fluke. But for the grace of god I wouldn't have gotten it. I had friends who deserved it alot more than my 2hrs of studying a day thru the HSC.

What is life? You can get all the glory and riches you need, Trump style, make Partner by 35 and earn $300k/year (that's very possible), see the world on secondment with your firm, but in the end - you'll die and your fate is no different from any other man. There's gotta be more to life! (than the UAI, career and money...)

ohs, Tax grads are encouraged to do a Grad Dip in Tax, or a Masters in Tax a few years after they start work. Normal acct ppl are required to do CA straight up. Some tax grads do College of Law too to get their legal practitioner's qualification. You don;t need acct background to do tax, some do, but yeh i don't have an acct background.

 

[seremify007]

ROFL Partners earn considerably more than $300k/yr =P
(edit: Partners in Big4 that is)

I think the people who are really happy will be those who see career as something they enjoy and that means they are essentially getting their creature comforts for doing what they want to do.

A philosophical tax accountant^^ That's nearly as good as the singer/dancer Accountant in today's SMH.

 

[jelly]

directors (those in line for partnership) earn around that much. Partners earn a cut of the firms profits, which can be 300K for new partners, or quite alot higher for senior partners.

and a tax consultant has nothing to do with accounting!

aite. I gotta start studying for my exams, gonna get off this forum now. good luck to those who still have exams next week.

 

[Minai]

Hopefully I'll be in that position in around 10 or so years!

I remember at my grad interviews at EY, one of the Principles (Partner on training wheels as he put it), said he'd been with the firm 10 years, since starting as a graduate. What I'm saying is that there is a clear path toward high positions at Big4 firms, you just have to work really hard for it.

 

[seremify007]

mmm... I think so too. But then not everyone makes partners; although it does make me feel alot better when I see the list of new directors/partners in big4 firms who are Asian- in other words, there isn't racial discrimination^^ It's like... a sign of hope kindof thing?

In smaller firms ppl can make partner really quick (I remember one guy from a mid-tier firm left KPMG at 27 to become a partner in a top10 firm)... but I also saw in SMH not long ago about a guy who was in EY and became a partner at 34.

A quick look at the BRW Accounting survey which split firms into three categories based on size reveals how much average partners earn (as well as how much other people who are associates of the firm earn) on average. Just remember that in the Big4, there are like... between 240 and 400 partners (depending on firm), and these firms generate revenue between $480m and $1b (according to BRW this year)- eg. In KPMG, the revenue per partner is $1.94m of revenue whilst in EY this figure is $2.68m... and of course some will get more than the 'average figure', and some will get less.

EDIT: I've attached the PDF file... it might surprise you^^ but it gives us all hope! In case anyone's wondering, it also compares Accounting wages/salaries with those of people who are CFOs and Accountants in large companies (eg. ASX200).

 

[Shawny]

shit man
accounting paid lot more than i expected

better make an effort in accounting

any stats on IB's in terms of earning capacity etc..

 

[Grizzly]

EDIT: I've attached the PDF file... it might surprise you^^ but it gives us all hope! In case anyone's wondering, it also compares Accounting wages/salaries with those of people who are CFOs and Accountants in large companies (eg. ASX200).

Thanks for that Seremify007,
I'm assuming Commerical Companies as in like...say...Qantas, or Telstra. etc ?

Also, "incentives" are not the same as "bonuses" right, so Shawny, i'm sure there is a larger capacity for bonuses whilst in C.B / I.B. However some IB's are smart, (e.g. Macq Bank), Coz they pay bonuses that you've earnt over 5 years for example, "forcing" you to stay within the company.

 

[seremify007]

Incentive I think is dependent on how well the firm/company is performing- it's part of the "equity sharing" I believe. It should also be noted that those figures are 'averages'- some partners obviously earn less and some earn more; someone told me that Partners have a chargeout rate of $600-$800aud per hour! If you are curious how much grads charge out, my sister charged out a bit under $300aud after finishing her CA a couple of years ago.

As for the companies- look at the footnotes, the first group is Top 200 companies listed on ASX (so BHP, Qantas, Telstra, etc..), second group is $100m-$500m turnover, and third group is $20m-$100m. Not sure about IBs, but based on some of my sister's friends who left Big4 to pursue careres in IB, they received substantial pay increases; not sure how much directors and so on earn, but I wouldn't be surprised if they earnt upwards of $5m. The only thing I know for sure (Shawny) is that as a grad at Mac Bank you should expect a salary of around $70-$80k, and after a couple of years or so, (this is based on one of my friends), he was earning $120k. Although there are other IBs out there (some people I know ended up in Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Deutsche Bank, S&P, etc..), so don't think Mac Bank is the only player =] They'll all pay top salaries if you're good.

 

[Grizzly]

. Although there are other IBs out there (some people I know ended up in Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Deutsche Bank, S&P, etc..), so don't think Mac Bank is the only player =] They'll all pay top salaries if you're good.

Definately. Macq was just an example
There is far more IB's than Accounting firms. I could list them, but narh
Unfortunately, there not as proominant in Australia.
For example, my cousin who graduated 2yrs ago, spent 1year unemployed, then 1year with HSBC, and has now a 3year contract with Merill Lynch in London.

 

[seremify007]

Hey Grizzly- do you reckon you'll end up pursuing Finance or Accounting? My guess is Finance =P

 

[Grizzly]

Hey Grizzly- do you reckon you'll end up pursuing Finance or Accounting? My guess is Finance =P

haha, Finance definately!! Its a much more exciting world
Accounting is just my "unemployment" backup

 

[seremify007]

ROFL I considered finance as something later on... but I'd rather do something like Real Estate development/planning if I ever deviated from Audit- Either way though, it fits me perfectly since I'm doing Resources/Services/Govt. (which includes construction).