Queen 'must die' for republic (1 Viewer)

[Trampoline Man]

Should also mention - all this talk of the "heritage" and "history" which the monarchy apparently represents is silly. The monarchy was a major factor in our past, but in the present and the future is an irrelevant institution which, being highly unrepresentative of today's Australia, should be replaced.

 

[wuddie]

* we maintain our strong british heratige (which i'm quite proud of)
* A 'safety barrier' by means of the GG (and british influence) to stop extremly controversial things going through parliment
* A link to one of the greatest (non-bush) nations in the world
* A link of security to a large british empire
* Keeps us on tabs with the british for when we need support troops for 'peace keeping' operations.

mate, you've basically repeated yourself 5 times to say 'we need the british financial and military support'. why on god's green earth do we ever need british financial support, when we are running a $18b surplus in a financial year? and why do we need their military support when we actually have a stronger military tie to the US?

frankly, our british heritage has brought us nothing but trouble in the past century. did the brits send us troops when we were attacked in ww1 and ww2? we in turn had to send our sorry asses over there, and lost 50,000 lives at gallipoli because the brits can't read the map properly! thanks to monarchy and mother britain. if anything, we have more reasons to thank the yanks for saving our bacons in ww2.

but i agree with the initial article, we can't just dump the queen now. she has been there way too long to be dumped. wait till she dies, and that stone faced charles comes on then we'll switch codes.

here's a trivia question - do you know which country were the british royal ancestors from?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

* we maintain our strong british heratige (which i'm quite proud of)

get fucked

we are not english we are... a whole lot of things.

EDIT: i suppose some of us are english

 

[chicky_pie]

mate, you've basically repeated yourself 5 times to say 'we need the british financial and military support'. why on god's green earth do we ever need british financial support, when we are running a $18b surplus in a financial year? and why do we need their military support when we actually have a stronger military tie to the US?

frankly, our british heritage has brought us nothing but trouble in the past century. did the brits send us troops when we were attacked in ww1 and ww2? we in turn had to send our sorry asses over there, and lost 50,000 lives at gallipoli because the brits can't read the map properly! thanks to monarchy and mother britain. if anything, we have more reasons to thank the yanks for saving our bacons in ww2.

but i agree with the initial article, we can't just dump the queen now. she has been there way too long to be dumped. wait till she dies, and that stone faced charles comes on then we'll switch codes.

here's a trivia question - do you know which country were the british royal ancestors from?

i agree with this powerful post.


....oh and which country is the British ancestors from?

 

[wuddie]

thank you.

germany. surprise!

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Uhm the Queens husband Duke of Edinburgh was prince of Greece and most european monarchs are related to eachother, mostly through Queen Victoria.

I don't want change cause having a royal is what made us unique. In fact other countries are jealous of our monarchy .

 

[wuddie]

if you read into history a bit further than one generation, you'd see one of the royal monarchs was actually 'married to' (don't ask me how) a german prince. in fact, their last name isn't windsor, but some other german name. but because of the ww2, they've changed it to windsor to avoid criticism.

for your peace of mind - http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/05/01/Royal_Nazis.html

so yes, german blood flows through and through in the royal family. i doubt being a colony of britain and having a queen as head of the state makes any country in the world jealous. what is there to be jealous of anyway? it's not as if aust has been there since the beginning of the royal family.

 

[o0o_chris_o0o]

Does everyone realise that we pretty much operate as a republic now? like, the queen/GG have no real power here. If the GG were to not sign a new law then the PM would just throw him out and get a new one that would sign off on it. thats all. and if the queen were to try and tell us how to run our country [because we're still part of the commonwealth, but we're a sovereign state] then parliament just says GTFO.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

That's why I think we don't even need a "model" for a Republic, just leave everything as it is but cut the Queen and just call the Governor General the President or Grand Commissar or something like that.

 

[o0o_chris_o0o]

That's why I think we don't even need a "model" for a Republic, just leave everything as it is but cut the Queen and just call the Governor General the President or Grand Commissar or something like that.

But the GG wasnt elected by the people... he was chosen by the PM, who was chosen by the ALP, which is elected by the people.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

So?

 

[Aryanbeauty]

if you read into history a bit further than one generation, you'd see one of the royal monarchs was actually 'married to' (don't ask me how) a german prince. in fact, their last name isn't windsor, but some other german name. but because of the ww2, they've changed it to windsor to avoid criticism.

for your peace of mind - http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/05/01/Royal_Nazis.html

so yes, german blood flows through and through in the royal family. i doubt being a colony of britain and having a queen as head of the state makes any country in the world jealous. what is there to be jealous of anyway? it's not as if aust has been there since the beginning of the royal family.

Statute of Westminster 1931 made Australia, Canada, South Africa, Ireland and New Zealand etc and UK as equal countries under the Monarch. Australia was established by the british for the british people in the first place and I think anyone who feel subjugated by this Royal link between Australia and Britain should find their own colony somewhere else or go back to their respective countries where they can live free of oppression from this despotic Queen of Australia.

 

[Trampoline Man]

Does everyone realise that we pretty much operate as a republic now? like, the queen/GG have no real power here. If the GG were to not sign a new law then the PM would just throw him out and get a new one that would sign off on it. thats all. and if the queen were to try and tell us how to run our country [because we're still part of the commonwealth, but we're a sovereign state] then parliament just says GTFO.

The PM can't dismiss the GG himself. The PM requests the Queen to dismiss the GG, but it is ultimately up to her to decide whether or not to dismiss him.

The parliament can't just say GTFO. Legislation requires Royal Assent from the Queen/GG. It's part of the constitution.

So do you see now why we are not an effectively a Republic? The passing of legislation requires the assent of a foreign monarch and her representative, that's hardly independent.

 

[townie]

i support a republic, but i dont currently mind Liz as our Head of State

my argument runs that the official head of state should be a unifying and bipartisan person to all australians, at the moment, the queen does fit that mould, but the future royal lineup doesnt look so promising, thus we should be looking at a head of state chosen for reasons other than birthright after the queen passes

P.S. i dont see why we cant keep using the term Governor-General either, republic or no republic. the word President just sounds a bit cheap for head of state, and i cant help but think of the senate when said position title is brought up in australia

 

[wuddie]

Statute of Westminster 1931 made Australia, Canada, South Africa, Ireland and New Zealand etc and UK as equal countries under the Monarch. Australia was established by the british for the british people in the first place and I think anyone who feel subjugated by this Royal link between Australia and Britain should find their own colony somewhere else or go back to their respective countries where they can live free of oppression from this despotic Queen of Australia.

yea, that's the way democracy works, accept the way we are or go back to where you came from. were you part of the cronulla riot? no really, you can tell me. your thinking is way too conservative.

time has long passed since 'Australia was established by the british for the british people in the first place'. when our immigration officers opened up the doors to other countries they inevitably expected changes to the way we view our head of state. if you care to look around, we live in the 21st century in a democratic society, where the monarch and democracy cannot co-exist and still perform their functions. we chose democracy, we thereby forfeited our obedience (not respect) for the queen.

sure, british people still have some concession in migrating from england, an easier medium for them simply because they are british. no one objects that as long as we are a british colony. in a way, we are preserving some of the features of a colony. but hell, let's move on and become a republic.

again, i refer to my initial reasoning, what has our motherland done for us recently? and therefore, why are we still paying for their expenses year after year?

 

[o0o_chris_o0o]

The PM can't dismiss the GG himself. The PM requests the Queen to dismiss the GG, but it is ultimately up to her to decide whether or not to dismiss him.

The PM dismisses the GG; and the GG dismisses the PM. The PM appoints the GG, and has the power to dismiss him.

I think it was Malcom Fraser who dismissed John Kerr because he was a drunk [I think thats who it happened with, anyone?!], and John Kerr dismissed Gough Whitlam because the senate refused to pass any bills proposed by Whitlam, and he was running out of money.

The parliament can't just say GTFO. Legislation requires Royal Assent from the Queen/GG. It's part of the constitution.

I get that they cant just say GTFO, but they can knock her back and say 'bitch back off, we're becoming a republic' [just not in those exact words]. and besides, the GG/Queen hasnt blocked a legislation in like ever [that i recall]

So do you see now why we are not an effectively a Republic? The passing of legislation requires the assent of a foreign monarch and her representative, that's hardly independent.

I understand this, but my point that i was making is that that GG/Queen wont stop us from enacting a legislature, they arent that big a deal in our govt. they're figure head. it was in like 1975ish that it became recognised that the the GG was more for ceremonial purposes than anything else [apart from signing paper].

 

[Aryanbeauty]

yea, that's the way democracy works, accept the way we are or go back to where you came from. were you part of the cronulla riot? no really, you can tell me. your thinking is way too conservative.

thats exactly how it should be. Why should you live in a country ruled by such an oppressive regime like the british monarch while you can live happily in a free democratic country which elected its own head of state such as Indonesia, South Africa, france etc. You only live once and choose the country that suits your lifestyle instead of trying to change century old traditions that works just fine and no better alternatives.

time has long passed since 'Australia was established by the british for the british people in the first place'. when our immigration officers opened up the doors to other countries they inevitably expected changes to the way we view our head of state. if you care to look around, we live in the 21st century in a democratic society, where the monarch and democracy cannot co-exist and still perform their functions. we chose democracy, we thereby forfeited our obedience (not respect) for the queen.

When immigrants came into this country they pledged to upholds the constitution and rule of law which includes a law specifying the head of state of Australia which the immigrants pledged to respect and obey. Democracy and monarchy can co-exist perfectly and if you care to look the most advanced, most democratic countries in the world such as Norway, Denmark, Sweden, belgium, netherlands, australia, canada all have monarchy and still ranked higher than any other nations in democracy index than those who have elected head of state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

sure, british people still have some concession in migrating from england, an easier medium for them simply because they are british. no one objects that as long as we are a british colony. in a way, we are preserving some of the features of a colony. but hell, let's move on and become a republic.

again, i refer to my initial reasoning, what has our motherland done for us recently? and therefore, why are we still paying for their expenses year after year?

what benefit will republic brings to this country. We didnt even pay a dime to the Queen unless she travels to Australia. It would cost much more to host US president than the Queen in australia. Besides Britain is a separate country in which the queen reigned and they did nt owe us anything. We are just sharing the Queen!

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Statute of Westminster 1931 made Australia, Canada, South Africa, Ireland and New Zealand etc and UK as equal countries under the Monarch. Australia was established by the british for the british people in the first place and I think anyone who feel subjugated by this Royal link between Australia and Britain should find their own colony somewhere else or go back to their respective countries where they can live free of oppression from this despotic Queen of Australia.

It helps if you at least look like you know what you're talking about

 

[Aryanbeauty]

It helps if you at least look like you know what you're talking about

It helps if you at least read a bit of history and come back. Statute of Westminster was passed in 1931 and Ireland (officially called Irish Free State) was part of the British Empire at that time up until 1949 when they officially severed ties with Britain and declared it a republic. :rofl:

 

[wuddie]

what exactly is it that we owe the brits so much that we continue to live happily under their colonisation? we live in a democratic society where we alone should elect our head of state, you can't just born into the role. that is way too backward. we are trying to make this system better, not stalling it with your 'if not broke, don't fix it' concepts. with your thinking, society and human race would have never made this far.