Post Election Thoughts Continued (1 Viewer)

[paper cup]

You can call me names all you want. Its the worst fallacy of argument and it only goes to show a lack of substance on your part.

....
of course because only liberal supporters are allowed to indulge in name calling.
when we do it it's immature but when you do it it's perfectly justified.

 

[lissa2085]

Have a cry

 

[paper cup]

I'll find you the stats for the type of income earners that send their kids to private schools if you want.. it's fairly surprising, there are about as many low-income earners in private schools as there are in public.. it's a choice.

In schools like kings im sure there are people there that pay the $10,000 for their kid and only earn 48,000 a year.

please do.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

If we are getting 'five times the funding', then why did one of the classrooms in my school collapse, why haven't we got proper fences, why are our air conditions a mere decoration, why do our computers fail (we're a freaking technology high school)....and why doesn't cherryblossom's school have chairs......

Well those are interesting personal experiences but they are matters of fact upon which the issue we're talking about is not discernable. How do I know the reason behind the nature of your school? Moreover I assume the point you are making is that your school needs more funding, but like I said, that point granted it does not follow private school funding should be cut.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea i find that kinda interesting cause i used to go to one of the schools in western sydney that usually dun achieve too high and is apparently in need of heaps of funding..
The classrooms were fine, but they were getting abused by the students, rocks were being thrown thru windows, the school was getting graphitti'd upon all over and to fix that i believe after the holidays one year they told us they had to spend $10,000 just to fix broken windows... money which they told us WAS going to be used to buy us new computers.

It's more about management than cash.


Maybe if a student wants these things they should get their own job and work it after school, all the money going towards their private education.

If their parents want this for them they can sacrafice a little to help pay for it, work the odd saturday.

My dad owns his own business, doesn't get back home till 7:00pm leaves for work at 6:00am, only takes 2 weeks of holidays a year and only has sundays off... I wonder HOW we can afford private schooling.
But of course he should be punished for that, what an asshole..working productively and all, lets cut funding from private schools.

Howard wants to give the SAME ammount of funding to non-government schools as latham.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

....
of course because only liberal supporters are allowed to indulge in name calling.
when we do it it's immature but when you do it it's perfectly justified.

I'll make this simple:

1. I have not engaged in name calling
2. You have engaged in name calling
3. I never purported any such rationale
4. The subsequent, second fallacy: attacking the straw person.

For your information, my technique in argument is quite often the opposite.

 

[paper cup]

Well those are interesting personal experiences but they are matters of fact upon which the issue we're talking about is not discernable. How do I know the reason behind the nature of your school? Moreover I assume the point you are making is that your school needs more funding, but like I said, that point granted it does not follow private school funding should be cut.

oh, the evidence that backs my argument is relevant and the evidence that doesn't isn't technique
we have a deficiency of chairs, of textbooks, we have crappy facilities and collasping classrooms because of our beloved government's distribution of funding...

 

[paper cup]

I'll make this simple:

1. I have not engaged in name calling
2. You have engaged in name calling
3. I never purported any such rationale
4. The subsequent, second fallacy: attacking the straw person.

For your information, my technique in argument is quite often the opposite.

I have been personally attacked by almost all liberal supporters, tully, ellymelly, lissa, thorny, neo, ohne, and a whole succession of others.
that was not name calling, I was just making the point that you think you are superior to me.

 

[astro]

Well those are interesting personal experiences but they are matters of fact upon which the issue we're talking about is not discernable. How do I know the reason behind the nature of your school? Moreover I assume the point you are making is that your school needs more funding, but like I said, that point granted it does not follow private school funding should be cut.

it's not just my school...there are other schools which have to sell parts of school property just to afford a library...
The 'reason behind the nature' of my school is the lack of funding - you think we purposely cause one of our buildings to collapse....

so i suppose what you're saying is, 'fuck the public education system'....

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Maybe you should lose foxtel, the internet and get a private education if you're so deprived.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

oh, the evidence that backs my argument is relevant and the evidence that doesn't isn't technique
we have a deficiency of chairs, of textbooks, we have crappy facilities and collasping classrooms because of our beloved government's distribution of funding...

Alrite, you obviously don't take the point, I'll rephrase. This is your argument:

1. Your school needs more funding.
2. Private school funding should be reduced.

This an unsound argument; the conclusion, "private school funding should be reduced," does not flow logically from your (sole) premise.

I have been personally attacked by almost all liberal supporters, tully, ellymelly, lissa, thorny, neo, ohne, and a whole succession of others.
that was not name calling, I was just making the point that you think you are superior to me.

Again, this is your argument:

1. You've been called names by a lot of Liberal supporters.
2. MoonlightSonata is a Liberal supporter.
3. Therefore, MoonlightSonata thinks he is superior to you.

Not very convincing is it?

 

[paper cup]

Maybe you should lose foxtel, the internet and get a private education if you're so deprived.

look, contrary to your beliefs not everyone can afford, or wants, a private education.
like asq said ages ago, cloistering children in an economically and socially selective environment is not necessarily healthy for their development...
private education is not superior to public, need I invoke the examples of james ruse, hurlstone, etc. and not only the selective schools as well...
and what ever happened to a fair go?

 

[paper cup]

Alrite, you obviously don't take the point, I'll rephrase. This is your argument:

1. Your school needs more funding.
2. Private school funding should be reduced.

This an unsound argument; the conclusion, "private school funding should be reduced," does not flow logically from your (sole) premise.

Again, this is your argument:

1. You've been called names by a lot of Liberal supporters.
2. MoonlightSonata is a Liberal supporter.
3. Therefore, MoonlightSonata thinks he is superior to you.

Not very convincing is it?

you adopt a condescending tone. that was addressed to lissa btw.
I did not say private ed funding should be reduced, but if there is a limited amount of money which there is, it should go to the public sector.
you have made little attempt to answer my questions.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

So you're telling me that although you hate the facilities at your school.. you're not willing to lose some luxuries to get some more funding into your school? Some of my mates parents had to move into a smaller house so that they could get a private education.

So what you're telling me is you wouldn't accept a private education even if it was offered to you for free? How can you then complain, it would appear the private people aren't the only one's acting superior.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Why should ALL the money go to the public sector? To hurt the families who have decided.. like you want a public education that they want a private education? force them to pay more, what if they can't afford the sudden increase? Some people barely manage to pay off school fee's.

 

[lengstar]

i've been to public schools and they don't complain about funding...they find other ways of generating money.

 

[astro]

these people probably go to private schools because most public school facilities are so backward...and why are they backward?

 

[paper cup]

So you're telling me that although you hate the facilities at your school.. you're not willing to lose some luxuries to get some more funding into your school? Some of my mates parents had to move into a smaller house so that they could get a private education.

So what you're telling me is you wouldn't accept a private education even if it was offered to you for free? How can you then complain, it would appear the private people aren't the only one's acting superior.

no. read the post again. I do not condemn the choice of those who attend private schools. but some people, like my parents, chose public education.
besides, the only private school in my region is catholic, and I'm not, and even though they take non religious students I don't think a transition is necessary...changing schools would be a bitch in senior school anyway.
the education is not markedly better...
shit, I need to go do maths. lovely arguing with you all, but harmonic motion requires my attention, now.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Some of the parents of children at public schools are extensively rich, maybe if you're going to take away funding from the private students.. all of them, even the ones barely managing to pay for their schooling you should make the richer public students pay extra money

 

[ohne]

Try looking up democrat history...the party that has most benefitted from their existence are the liberals they were always closer to the liberals than labor...their leader was an ex liberal...their ethos is more right than left...the party that suffered most from the democrats was the Hawke labor government...without the support of the democrats the GST would not have existed?

Oh bullshit. The democrats have opposed almost every piece of economic reform over the past 8.5 years which is why they were punished. The GST has still not been introduced in its entirety.

The destruction of Medicare (continuation trend in the decrease in bull billing and therefore universal healthcare...healthcare becomes user pays...in a country as rich as ours this is insane - liberal voters dont like medicare and like paying 30 to 60 dollars a visit)

come on....."medicare plus" has turned things around.

Reforming the unfairdismissal laws (ie there wont be any...good luck if you feel you have been unfairly sacked...dont expect a redundancy...)

this is only for small business which can hardly afford this type of thing and this will not cover big business which can afford this

Reforming of media laws (Packer will buy fairfax resulting the death of critical media...also the death of the ABC...again the loss of any critical journalism...one company will own all the media in the country...can anyone say monopoly?...liberals like the dumbing down of criticism)

nobody is talking about the death of the ABC, if you look at their policy they have actually offered a significant increase in funding. fairfax newspapers actually supported the coalition in this election so i don't know what you're worried about. kerry packer supported bob hawke in the 1980s

Destruction of the unions and any notion of an equal industrial bargaining system (more AWA individual bargaining with the employer)

oh come off it. the coalitions industrial relations polciy is very mild in my opinion, they could have done a lot more. the coalitions policy will involve choice between bargaining collectively and individually and (hopefully) sorting out the mess in australia of having seven separate systems

The Full sale of telstra (Good luck if you live in the country...20 mins wait on the phone for service instead of 10?)

the same argument could have been applied to the hawke/keating goverments privitisation of companies such as QANTAS and the commonwealth bank and this clearly did not happen

Continual degregulation of the university education system (people dont seem to care that they got their education for free...)

i am sick of your hypocracy on this issue. you have previously stated that you have never been a fan of labor's universities policy and you have nothing against full fee degrees. if that is your position them will you please stop bagging the howard government's policy on universities.