Paris riots (2 Viewers)

[loquasagacious]

And mister civil libertarian stands up for the rights of ethnically diverse people rioting in the streets...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Personally I feel the army should be deployed on his own people, they have had their opportunity to 'voice' their concerns... now they need to stop the violence.

I like his style tho, while he is condemming what has been going on, he is also acknowledging that they have highlighted a problem which needs to be addressed.

 

[loquasagacious]

You ahve to remember that deploying the army is a big deal. They are not police. Their deployment renders the nation the enemy of the state. Furthermore deaths are highly likely and will be unpopular.

My point in sum: Using the army to restore order is VERY risky.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well yes, but what you have in paris is a situation where there is lawlessness that is going out of control. Also, it seems although the riots are going to continue to escalate... Personally I would not want to take the risk of allowing this to go much further than it already has, and if the police can't handle it - you have no choice.

 

[loquasagacious]

My inclination would be to announce some kind of programme of reform on the radio/tv at about midday follow it about six hours later with the ultimatum that the army will be deployed the next day if rioting perists.

If rioting persists the declare martial law midday on the second day.

Then you enter a phase of key importance. The army must NOT be defeated in any way zero losses (including of hardware) if possible, however also minimum loss of civillian life especially those who are innocent. eg At all costs avoid a bloody sunday massacre as it will set you up for continuing problems aka Northern Ireland.

 

[Iron]

My point in sum: Using the army to restore order is VERY risky.

Remember, this is the French army. Those fromage eatin surrender monkeys... I predict new power -giving rebirth to old-fashioned European club-buggery wars- by end of the week

 

[ihavenothing]

The scale and the damage of these rioters is enormous and the army will be an opportunity to rid these suburbs of these problems, it will only get worse with the growing birth rate. The press has been in full spectrum from left to right but very critical of the French saying that they have failed to integrate these communities, but the reality is that these macaques refuse to integrate but still mixed marriages are very common.

 

[loquasagacious]

That post was fractured and made very little sense.

In an attempt to address it:

The army will suppress the rioting they will not "rid the suburbs of the problem" - unless of course you are proposing that the army kill everyone residing within said suburbs and raze them to the ground just for good measure. Which would be a crime against humanity, a war crime and morally repugnant.

To address the problem we need to answer the question as to why these groups have not integrated into French culture. Is it their culture? Is it the culture of the French? Is it discrimination? Is it some combination of the above?

Answer that question and then you can address the cause. Its basic medecine you treat the cause of symptoms not the symptoms.

 

[leetom]

Remember, this is the French army. Those fromage eatin surrender monkeys... I predict new power -giving rebirth to old-fashioned European club-buggery wars- by end of the week

France has the Foreign Legion at its disposal. Having an ethnically diverse military put down the riots would look better than a Gallic army putting them down. Imagine the propaganda value, seeing the Legion marching down a Paris cobblestone street towards an enemy barricade, the Marseillaise in full instrumentals with the tricouleur fluttering in the wind...*swoons*.

Deploying the army in civil unrest is standard fare for the French. I wouldn't be too concerned.

 

[loquasagacious]

I believe the it is generally avoided to deploy the Foriegn Legion due to the extra connotations they have eg they are mercenarys. This would look worse as it would send a message that patriotic french soldiers refused to put it down but money hungry petty criminals etc would do it.

The legion is often reserved for particularly unsavoury jobs - I don't think this rates. Furthermore the main barracks for the legion is in Marseilles (or however it is spelt) so a closer unit is more likely. Oh and the legion doesn't have the vehicles needed either.

Deploying the army to quell unrest may be standard fare in France, but so is revolution. The last time I can recall would have been under de Gaull to put down the strike/riots in the sixties(?) in relation to wages and Algeria. This came perilously close to toppling the republic.

 

[ihavenothing]

I just saw Lateline and the reporter had stated the problem was that the president in 1974 Valéry Giscard d'Estaing had allowed the guest workers to allow their families to come across from the ex-colonies of Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco and therefore increase the immigrant population siginificantly and every government since had been extremely lax on immigration since to a ridiculous level and urban centres decayed everywhere.

The future looks very uncertain as it may be very likely that Jean Marie Le Pen, leader of the far right party Front National is likely to gain headway in the next election in 18 months. The last election he had ran only second to Jacques Chirac and finished up with 18% of votes. With the riots this is very likely to swing and his policies include the deportation of 3.7 million non-citizens (that include second and even third generation immigrants) and reinstatement of the death penalty. Who knows what this era may bring??

 

[Capitalist Pig]

I just saw Lateline and the reporter had stated the problem was that the president in 1974 Valéry Giscard d'Estaing had allowed the guest workers to allow their families to come across from the ex-colonies of Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco and therefore increase the immigrant population siginificantly and every government since had been extremely lax on immigration since to a ridiculous level and urban centres decayed everywhere.

The future looks very uncertain as it may be very likely that Jean Marie Le Pen, leader of the far right party Front National is likely to gain headway in the next election in 18 months. The last election he had ran only second to Jacques Chirac and finished up with 18% of votes. With the riots this is very likely to swing and his policies include the deportation of 3.7 million non-citizens (that include second and even third generation immigrants) and reinstatement of the death penalty. Who knows what this era may bring??

No party that supports the extensive use of tariffs can call itself far right. He is nationalist, not right wing.

 

[loquasagacious]

Xenophobic nationalist.

 

[ihavenothing]

If you look at his other policies such as France distancing itself from the EU and banning "abherrant" modern art to promote traditional French culture as well as making abortion illegal sounds very right wing to me...

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jean-Marie_Le_Pen&oldid=27664894

 

[samuelblayden]

the whole think sucks

 

[loquasagacious]

What is right wing?

Please refer to the where do I stand thread for some indepth discussion on the failings of a single axis left-centre-right paradigm. Slightly more accurate is the dual-axis political compass (www.politicalcompass.org), in NCAP the terms left-right are used only to denote economics.

This analysis would place Lepin as socially conservative and economically protectionist eg it would put him roughly speaking somewhere up the top of the compass between left and right in other words due north and in roughly the same place as Hitler.

 

[ihavenothing]

I now feel like some nice French croissants...

 

[Iron]

Id like to see a 21st century spin on the guillotine. Done with lasers.
Or maybe the new Iron lady can recieve a vision from previous frenchy-bashing krauts and ride out to Paris in white armour alla Joan of Arc.
Viva la moonlight
Hey addymac, do you think this would fare a mention in IR tomorrow as the beginning of the clash of civilisations in Europe?

 

[loquasagacious]

I think this could be made to fly in IR - hell it is more relevant than half the readings in the brick (Having read the globalisation readings I can now forgive arts students for not understanding it...). Though that said I would probably ommit the surrender monkering and noveu joan of arc....

 

[supercharged]

Russia mulls fence to guard against Chechen attacks

Jerusalem, Nov 8 (PTI) Russia is mulling the construction of a security barrier along its border with Chechnya similar to Israel's West Bank fence as part of efforts to combat terror, a media report said here today.

The head of counter-terrorism in Chechnya and Kremlin's envoy to southern Russia, Dmitry Kozak, met with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Internal Security Minister Gideon Ezra yesterday for talks on the effectiveness of the Israeli barrier in keeping terror attacks at bay, the Jerusalem Post reported.

Israeli officials told the daily that the talks focussed primarily on the construction of a security fence.

Kozak told the participants that he would recommend the construction of such a fence as a viable means to fight terror.

"They want to learn more about fighting terror," former Israel Police chief Shlomo Aharonishky, who is serving as a consultant for the Russians, told the Post.

"Kozak has been assigned to prepare a plan on how to fight terror and it will include the construction of a security fence. His visit here is to learn from us how to build the fence and how to do it," Aharonishky said.

The former police chief has established a security consultant company, National Security Project (NSP), arranged for the Russian officials visit and has already been to Russia at Kozak's request.

"He will recommend back in Russia the construction of a fence in certain places," the former police chief said adding "there will also be other ideas including how to deal with the [Chechen] leadership and the people who are sent to carry out the attacks". PTI

Got a terrorist problem? Why fight constant and neverending clashes when you can just wall them in and isolate the problem! France should learn from example. :uhhuh: