P-Plate Restrictions (2 Viewers)

[breaking]

I like the stuff they're going to implement. In theory, red P platers would be 17 so they wouldn't need desos. Obviously that's a bit presumptuous, but it's only for the first year, while they get their independent driving skills. When you've been driving by yourself for a year, you'd be more prepared to handle a car full of presumably drunk passengers late at night. Teenagers could still car pool during the day. This part also doesn't effect teenagers with late-night jobs, which was my main problem with a curfew.

The zero-point thing is good. Nobody needs to go over the speed limit. I'm assuming P platers would still get the 10% leeway, and if you're minding your speed you won't go over the limit, even accidently. This is like the legislation that was in place when our parents learned to drive, so now we'll see if it helps at all, or if it's just our generation that apparently kills themselves.
The only difference between the new laws and laws back in the old days is that we have P2 licences, so we can't have any alcohol and drive for another 2 years, which I'm fine with. (i'm so tiny i'd probably go over the limit with one cruiser and stay over the limit for a looong time)

So hurrah for new legislation

agreed 100%
and lol @ the one cruiser thing, its so so true.

 

[Jiga]

It's not too hard to keep your speedo around the same number but you have to also consider that plenty of roads in Sydney aren't flat, speed limits are completely inconsistent and generally slower than what they should be. It's not difficult at all to end up 5km/h over the speed limit without noticing.

I want inexperiences drivers focusing on the road not the speedo. Something that should be used to crack down on the morons that drive around at 20km/h over the speed limit all the time is going to end up hurting the safe drives who don't brake hard enough down a hill.

Exactly... and tbh only a very small minority of crashes reported are even related to speeding! Honestly, I drive 500kms+ a week... I recon I see alot more full license holders going way over the limit (20km/h+) then I see P-platers, and a hell of alot more full license holders doing 5km/h+ over the limit. Once again it comes down to the media, they portray it as speed related all these crashes, when I dont think there is much evidence for that at all.

Anyone see the Daily Telegraph section on the changes? They had like 5 quotes from young drivers... all saying the changes were good. Talk about selective commenting, you cant tell me that is the general consensus among young people, 100% agree with the changes . Im not even effected by the changes but disagree.

After 100 hours driving as an L plater I'd hope P platers would at least be able to maintain their speed.

The exact figure is 120hours and 12 months now.... which wont do sh*t to reduce the road toll, after 20hours I had the same basic skills that I did after 70hours. Driving with mummy next to, a 2nd pair of eyes... is completely different from driving alone, where there isnt a parent next to you to have ago at you for speeding or doing something stupid etc. And this isnt even taking into consideration the many people who literally cannot do 120hours... some people have busy parents and even 50hours is a stretch, let alone 120hours.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Exactly... and tbh only a very small minority of crashes reported are even related to speeding! Honestly, I drive 500kms+ a week... I recon I see alot more full license holders going way over the limit (20km/h+) then I see P-platers, and a hell of alot more full license holders doing 5km/h+ over the limit. Once again it comes down to the media, they portray it as speed related all these crashes, when I dont think there is much evidence for that at all.

I probably drive about that much aswell and I basically never see anyone driving the speed limit consistently. I probably see 1 or 2 a month that try and go the speed limit but who still go between 5km/h and 10km/h over occasionally but that is all.

The only people that I don't see breaking the law are the people that go 15km/h under the speed limit all the time and shouldn't be on the road in the first place and L platers.

I'm all for safe driving but speed limits are useless. They should be used as a guide only, not enforced, and people should only be caught for speeding if they are going ridiculously fast.

 

[HotShot]

Re: Read The Whole Damn Thing I Thought About It For Ages

I am willing to bet that 70 year old man is more competent at predicting and avoiding a dangerous situation whilst behind the wheel than most P platers (even though they may be significantly underrepresented in terms of qualified drivers in that age bracket =/), simply because they have that 30+ years of experience on the road, which is why the are one of the most low profile age groups on that graph. (Although a much more accurate measure which I would like to see published somewhere in one of these media crazes is what percentage of drivers in each age group have a fatal crash.)

Tell me how did that 70yr old get his licence? Did he have all these restrictions on him when he was 16 or 17 or 18 etc? In other countries kids as old 11 drive cars!.
How do you gain experience if you are restricted so much? If you forced all learner drivers to drive in the middle of night for couple of hours at 70km/h every night, then I can assure you they will become excellent drivers at that time in the night. If you get them to have few beers and then force them to drive and do the same thing - they will also improve their driving skills. Placing restrictions on young drivers does not give them experience and when a new situation arises they are screwed over.

Young drivers like to experiment, to see whats going on and how things are. Lack of experience pushes this attitude, and its good to have this attitude as it is how you learn.

If your friend were to offer you and your significant other a lift home from a party (thus breaking the terms of the curfew?), would you risk costing them their license, or make your own way home, ie, call your mum? It's not like before you got your P's you didnt have a social life/job.

Such a situation already exists, if you know your friend is drunk and is going drive home, you know the consequences do you stop him? You are supposed to stop him, you arent even supposed to even drinking and driving, you supposed to follow a lot of laws - but its doesnt always happen? With your logic there should be no accidents happening because we are perfect.

 

[Optophobia]

I'm all for safe driving but speed limits are useless. They should be used as a guide only, not enforced, and people should only be caught for speeding if they are going ridiculously fast.

You obviously have no idea of the carnage that exists on the road as it is. Removing speed limits would be suicidal and even suggesting it is just stupid.

You're one of these people who are yet to learn how dangerous cars are.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

You obviously have no idea of the carnage that exists on the road as it is. Removing speed limits would be suicidal and even suggesting it is just stupid.

You're one of these people who are yet to learn how dangerous cars are.

Not remove, jut not enforce. Instead of wasting all this time enforcing speed limits that are too slow let people use the speed limit as a guide and use common sense to go as fast or slow as the conditions allow.

Obviously there are a group of people who would take this idea the wrong way and go way too fast and these are the people that should be targeted, not the average driver.

 

[scarybunny]

It's true that most people don't drive at the speed limit, but it's also true that these people have 12 points to lose. If one little mistake would cost them their licence, I'm sure more people would drive at the limit. Take into account that most speedos over-read, and you get 10% leeway, and going the speed limit is made much easier.

Realistically, though, these new laws probably won't do much. Drivers of all ages have freak accidents, and no amount of legislation will fix that. P platers will always be slightly more at risk because of their experience level and their tendency to experiment and test their skills. A lot of the blame rests on the parents as well, lots of them just can't seem to teach their kids a responsible attitude towards driving. It's not a game, it's dangerous.

 

[Jiga]

Tell me how did that 70yr old get his licence? Did he have all these restrictions on him when he was 16 or 17 or 18 etc? In other countries kids as old 11 drive cars!.

I wouldnt worry about it, that poster who recons a 70yr old driver obviously has no idea what they are talking about. Like I said, I drive shitloads (Lol today alone I drove 200kms)... so Im on the road alot, I see alot of sh*t, and older drivers are up there with the WORST. I have personally been hit by a 60 year old driver when, with two marked turning lanes (meaning you must exit in the same lane as you entered) came across and hit me, even after I gave him the horn... and apart from being totally lost and then stopping on a 70km/h main road when a side street was 20m ahead (and the damage was relatively minor) showing how lost he was, he than tried to blame me for it cos Im a p-plater lol. On another occasion an old man nearly changed lanes into a truck... he was half down the truck, he should have seen him partially in front of his car let alone when seeing his blind spot. I could go on.. but for yourselves just watch the news, prior to this p-plater bullsh*t there were stories of older drivers and how they ended up driving into shops etc... but yes 70yr olds are more competent . And the whole thing about them being able to react better in emergency situations is crap whoever posted that, you obviously no little... I have this argument with my mum, I have pushed my car to the limits when its relatively safe, I know how my car reacts (friends of mine have taken their cars to tracks, they know even more then me)... I know the concepts of opposite lock when oversteering or pumping the brakes when you dont have ABS.... my mother like many other 'expereinced' drivers doesnt know sh*t about these, and I can only imagine 70yr olds who couldnt tell if their car has ABS etc let alone know how to react would be even worse, eps when considering they have slower reaction times, something extremely important in a emergency situation where every split second counts!

When it comes to technical driving skills, I believe p-platers with the more stringent tests etc are technically better... they know to check their blind spots, to look all round when doing particular turns, that two turning lanes with arrows mean you have to stay in the same lane etc... simply, we actually know the road rules, many older drivers DONT... because they got their license so easily and have been driving their whole lives incorrectly.

It's true that most people don't drive at the speed limit, but it's also true that these people have 12 points to lose. If one little mistake would cost them their licence, I'm sure more people would drive at the limit. Take into account that most speedos over-read, and you get 10% leeway, and going the speed limit is made much easier.

I dont get your point? The whole argument is p-platers are portrayed as being serial speeders and that these are meant to be the causes of all their crashes... when in fact everyone speeds. The fact that no points would reduce speeders (which hasnt been directly linked to crashes) is irrelevant when singling out p-platers... as like Ive said, no-one should be speeding yet in fact they do, so make that 1 strike and ur out system go across the board.. that would reduce fatalities right? But nooooo.... that wouldnt help votes for the poli's

Off topic, 'scary bunny', is that your bird? Its a peachface right? I use to have one, it died a while back... sad

 

[scarybunny]

I dont get your point? The whole argument is p-platers are portrayed as being serial speeders and that these are meant to be the causes of all their crashes... when in fact everyone speeds. The fact that no points would reduce speeders (which hasnt been directly linked to crashes) is irrelevant when singling out p-platers... as like Ive said, no-one should be speeding yet in fact they do, so make that 1 strike and ur out system go across the board.. that would reduce fatalities right? But nooooo.... that wouldnt help votes for the poli's

Off topic, 'scary bunny', is that your bird? Its a peachface right? I use to have one, it died a while back... sad

What I'm saying is that if P platers are taught to watch their speed from a young age, maybe they'll be better, more speed-conscious drivers later on. I know that speed isn't necessarily a factor in crashes, but it doesn't hurt to go the speed limit, especially when you're inexperienced.

And yeah, generally they're just enacting new laws so it looks like they're responding to this so-called P plater problem. Notice how most of the new legislation is for people who are 17, ie they can't vote. If they tried to do this to fully licenced drivers, they'd be booted out of parliament so fast... Everyone likes to ignore the fact that fully licenced drivers speed, drink drive, crash etc.

Everyone knew they were going to change the laws for P platers, and I think that the changes they've chosen to make are not as bad as some of the other proposed changes (like curfews, making the minimum driving age 18 etc).

Edit: and it's not my bird, I just thought it was cute. I have a budgie though. He's oooold (9yrs).

 

[HotShot]

Schoolies_2004 - you make a good point, in that cars nowadays come up with all these new technologies. ABS brakes, traction control systems GPS navigators etc etc. OBviously this will affect the older drivers as they will be unfamiliar with it.

But these technologies have greatly improved car safety all that needs to be improved is the roads , signs etc in Sydney.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Speeding isn't the problem at all, it's going too fast for the conditions. If you take a corner at 60 in a 70 zone you technically aren't speeding but probably aren't driving safely either.

The only way to solve the problem is to teach people to drive properly in the first place and not give them a license until they can actually drive, not just reverse park. If you know how to drive you know when not to speed (when it's raining, around corners and bends etc). Laws to try and reduce speeding in general will not work at all.

It's all well and good to say how illegal and dangerous speeding is but the reality is the speed limits in Sydney are ridiculous and as a consequence everyone ignores them. You may not like it but that is the way it is.

 

[Optophobia]

Not remove, jut not enforce. Instead of wasting all this time enforcing speed limits that are too slow let people use the speed limit as a guide and use common sense to go as fast or slow as the conditions allow.

Obviously there are a group of people who would take this idea the wrong way and go way too fast and these are the people that should be targeted, not the average driver.

You obviously haven't read much about traffic management. Take a look at this website for example.

 

[lilkiwicutie89]

hey, does anyone know...

is it true.. if i get my L's before July i will only have to do 50 hours to get my P's right?

thanks.

lilkiwicutie89

 

[iambored]

Speeding isn't the problem at all, it's going too fast for the conditions. If you take a corner at 60 in a 70 zone you technically aren't speeding but probably aren't driving safely either.

The only way to solve the problem is to teach people to drive properly in the first place and not give them a license until they can actually drive, not just reverse park. If you know how to drive you know when not to speed (when it's raining, around corners and bends etc). Laws to try and reduce speeding in general will not work at all.

It's all well and good to say how illegal and dangerous speeding is but the reality is the speed limits in Sydney are ridiculous and as a consequence everyone ignores them. You may not like it but that is the way it is.

are you the one i had an argument about this before? it's not amazingly hard and doesn't take so much focus to keep under the speed limit.
i can't be bothered at this time to retort other things you have said, but they also do not make sense.

is it true.. if i get my L's before July i will only have to do 50 hours to get my P's right?

i would have thought that they would look at when you get your Ps rather than Ls, it's easier for them that way.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

are you the one i had an argument about this before? it's not amazingly hard and doesn't take so much focus to keep under the speed limit.
i can't be bothered at this time to retort other things you have said, but they also do not make sense.

To do it all the time is hard and takes a lot of focus. I always do it during double demerits and a significant amount of my focus is off the road and onto the speedo.

 

[Optophobia]

hey, does anyone know...

is it true.. if i get my L's before July i will only have to do 50 hours to get my P's right?

thanks.

lilkiwicutie89

Yah.

 

[Optophobia]

A p-plate driver has had his licence suspended after being caught travelling more than 60km/h above the speed limit at Black Hill near Newcastle.

About 11.45pm yesterday officers observed a black Hyundai travelling north along the F3 at Black Hill.

Police will allege the car was travelling at 162km/h.

Officers stopped the vehicle and the 26-year-old Toronto man’s licence was suspended immediately.

He was also issued a court attendance to notice to appear before Toronto Local Court on 14 February 2007.

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but stacks of these p-platers who are giving other p-platers are bad name are like 25+ .. ?

I think what is happening is the bad drivers are having their licences suspended/disqualified and so they sit on their P's for longer than necessary.

Seeing as the majority of p-platers are <20, the amount of 23+ year old p-platers who are dieing/in crashes/caught breaking the law is disproportionate.

 

[bizadfar]

I have this argument with my mum, I have pushed my car to the limits when its relatively safe, I know how my car reacts (friends of mine have taken their cars to tracks, they know even more then me)... I know the concepts of opposite lock when oversteering or pumping the brakes(esp in wet surfaces) when you dont have ABS... my mother like many other 'experienced' drivers doesnt know sh*t about these, and I can only imagine 70yr olds who couldnt tell if their car has ABS etc let alone know how to react would be even worse, eps when considering they have slower reaction times, something extremely important in a emergency situation where every split second counts!

When it comes to technical driving skills, I believe p-platers with the more stringent tests etc are technically better... they know to check their blind spots, to look all round when doing particular turns, that two turning lanes with arrows mean you have to stay in the same lane etc..

100% correct m8.
My parents use to criticize me and what i use to do and still do.
But now im the 1 totally criticizing them, how they waste power, have crap techniques. Totally erratic (you CANNOT be erratic in a car with high centre of gravity and quite soft suspension, it just rolls everywhere and is extremely uncomfortable and dangerous)

The funny thing is they finally conceded to me, they know they suck now hehe.


btw imagine pumping brakes for 2hours straight. My god my left foot was dead lol.

 

[disputed]

does anyone know the penalty for failing to display p plates? and does the "oh they must have fallen off" excuse ever work?

 

[Jiga]

^

Well forgetting how that is totally unrelated to this thread, and should be in the cars section... go to the RTA site for the info and stop being lazy. As for your excuse, if one plate is off it should work if the cop isnt a prick, but with both off good luck!

100% correct m8.
My parents use to criticize me and what i use to do and still do.
But now im the 1 totally criticizing them, how they waste power, have crap techniques. Totally erratic (you CANNOT be erratic in a car with high centre of gravity and quite soft suspension, it just rolls everywhere and is extremely uncomfortable and dangerous)

The funny thing is they finally conceded to me, they know they suck now hehe.

Thnx... and the thing is a driver training course for drivers would mean that people could learn these skills and get use to how cars handle in a safe environment, instead of pushing it on the streets. Personally Id like to go to a track and push my car for eg, but its like $150.. same applies to a training course! If a training course however was made cheaper through the RTA actually reducing their 1000% profit and some subsidising by the govt etc (in place of paying for buses cos of passenger restrictions), then there would be a major dent on the road toll! Realisitcally when you look at it, by limiting passengers, all they are doing is delaying the inevitable... when people eventually get passengers and become distracted as they claim they will then crash. Remember its all about skills, you dont get driving with passenger skills (ie knowing to watch the road) by driving by yourself or with 1 sudate passenger... you get it by being exposed to different situations. So now instead of red p platers dying we will have green p-platers, and then they will bring in laws for that.... instead of being proactive in the first case and bringing a training course etc in