Official Apology Thread (1 Viewer)

[Evilo]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Hmm, about time. I hope it doesn't spark off a whole heap of court battles.

unfortunatly it probably will. And ill be fuking pissed when my house gets handed to the aboriginies because its "sacred land".

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

unfortunatly it probably will. And ill be fuking pissed when my house gets handed to the aboriginies because its "sacred land".

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN MAN

just admit you're against saying sorry because you hate blacks

 

[dey-tuk-re-jobz]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

unfortunatly it probably will. And ill be fuking pissed when my house gets handed to the aboriginies because its "sacred land".

Why does your mother allow you onto the internet, if all you're going to do is lower the aggregate intelligence quotient of users on it?

 

[Evilo]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

so once we officially say sorry, what do you think they will want then? money! no shit! and then its land! and then every Kid in Australia will be learning aborigional as a second language in primary school. Don't believe me? go to new zealand and see where maouri reconciliation has taken over the country.

If you seriosuly think saying sorry is a positve contribution towards australia's economy (or its welbeing) then you are fucked in the head. I'm not saying sorry for something that our ancestors did over 3 generations ago. Do you apologise to every person you meet because your grandfather was not a very nice person?

Rudd can say sorry in parliment, but he won't have my support.

 

[Triangulum]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

so once we officially say sorry, what do you think they will want then? money! no shit!

Why shouldn't people be compensated for being taken from their parents as children for the sake of an idiotic policy?

and then its land!

Except that the High Court in Mabo decided that freehold land cannot be claimed under native title. And aboriginal people are, funnily enough, just ordinary people who don't particularly want to take your house by persuading the government to change the law. But let's not let 'facts' and 'reality' get in the way of paranoia.

and then every Kid in Australia will be learning aborigional as a second language in primary school.

Your argument would be a lot more solid if you didn't resort to this far-fetched nightmarish vision of aborigines taking over the country as a debating point. And what's so horrific about learning an aboriginal language anyway?

If you seriosuly think saying sorry is a positve contribution towards australia's economy (or its welbeing) then you are fucked in the head. I'm not saying sorry for something that our ancestors did over 3 generations ago.

Not everything governments do is about the economy. And yes, an apology will contribute to our national wellbeing, because it'll allow us to move on from a sorry episode in our history. Speaking of which, don't commentate on the stolen generations if you think it was 3 generations ago. Child removal as an official policy only stopped in the 1960s.

Do you apologise to every person you meet because your grandfather was not a very nice person?

OH MY GOD it's not a personal admission of inherited responsibility, it's a statement that the Australian government carried out a terrible policy, and more generally that aborigines were horribly mistreated for more than a century, and that the government and the people as a whole are sorry that it happened. Why is this so objectionable?

(Post edited a bit for clarity and a more pleasant tone)

 

[Evilo]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Why shouldn't people be compensated for being taken from their parents as children for the sake of an idiotic policy?

It happened over 40 years ago! Why dont we compensate every 'german soldier' that was killed during WWII because of "of an idiotic policy". <-- yes i am aware that term is subjective - before you question me on the WWII comment and accuse me of being a nazi

....resort to this idiotic racist crap.

Despite what you think, I'm not racist. I believe times have changed, its time to move on. i.e. Move away from reconcilliation - its clear nobody cares! I was talking to a mate today and they had a sorry petition at their school that they would hand to the local aborigionals. Only 200 of the 1500 students signed the damn thing. And (as ive seen from experience) kids will sign anything put infront of them.

And yes, an apology will contribute to our national wellbeing, because it'll allow us to move on from a sorry episode in our history.

I disagree, bringing up an old topic again is not moving on. Its just creating debate and causing further problems. Whats the benifit of saying sorry? I mean will the aborigines just go "ok thanks" and go back to their normal lifestyle? It just an oppourtunity to increase further law suits against the government.
The "Sorry Episode" will just drag on for years!! don't you realise this? omg its like the domino effect (no historical pun intended).

statement that the Australian government carried out a terrible policy, and more generally that aborigines were horribly mistreated for more than a century, and that the government and the people as a whole are sorry that it happened. Why is this so objectionable?

See above, it opens an opportunity for aborigionals to sue the government for acts of 'mistreatment' that their ancestors/grandfathers/whateva had been exposed to.

 

[Felix-x34]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Move away from reconcilliation - its clear nobody cares! I was talking to a mate today and they had a sorry petition at their school that they would hand to the local aborigionals. Only 200 of the 1500 students signed the damn thing. And (as ive seen from experience) kids will sign anything put infront of them.

Very good response mate and I totally agree with what you said.

Aboriginals made this country what it was BEFORE we came.
We made it what it is today.
And as soon as Aboriginals can recognise their place in Australia, the SOONER we can make this country what it will be tomorrow.

 

[Triangulum]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

It happened over 40 years ago! Why dont we compensate every 'german soldier' that was killed during WWII because of "of an idiotic policy".

This wasn't a war. It was a well-thought-out, continuous policy that aimed to remove every semblance of aboriginality by tearing children away from their parents. Soldiers go to war knowing that they run the risk of being killed. Aborigines didn't ask to be taken from their parents.

Despite what you think, I'm not racist.

That was the wrong word to use and I've edited my post, but I think this imagined dystopia where Aborigines force people to learn an aboriginal language! and take all the land! is ridiculous.

I believe times have changed, its time to move on. i.e. Move away from reconcilliation - its clear nobody cares!

I'm sure that people who were sexually abused while under the care of the Aborigines Protection Board and the like, and who have suffered lasting mental harm from being taken from their parents, care. And I hate to use a Holocaust analogy, and the usual disclaimer about not saying this is anywhere near the scale or malice of the Holocaust applies, but you don't see the Germans telling the Jews "Dudes, it was 50 years ago. Move on." The government recognises that what happened in the past still matters to people and acknowledges it.

Whats the benifit of saying sorry? I mean will the aborigines just go "ok thanks" and go back to their normal lifestyle?

It would be a symbolic act to allow Aborigines and the broader government to work together to improve the situation of aborigines without the spectre of past government mistreatment of aborigines looming over them.

It just an oppourtunity to increase further law suits against the government.

Every state and territory has issued a formal apology and there has been no flood of litigation. Even if there was, so what? Are we really so mean that we begrudge compensation to people whom the government has harmed? And if they're sueing on behalf of their ancestors, I very much doubt courts would grant them compensation.

 

[Evilo]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

I'm sure that people who were sexually abused while under the care of the Aborigines Protection Board and the like, and who have suffered lasting mental harm from being taken from their parents, care.

So (hypothetically) if my father was "sexually abused" when he was a kid, i should be able to claim compensation off that?

It would be a symbolic act to allow Aborigines and the broader government to work together to improve the situation of aborigines without the spectre of past government mistreatment of aborigines looming over them.

I disagree. The problems are usually caused by alcohol and substance abuse. I completly supported when the howard government went in popping goon sacks and arresting drunks. I am all for making high [alcohol related] abuse areas - "dry states"*.

Every state and territory has issued a formal apology and there has been no flood of litigation. Even if there was, so what? Are we really so mean that we begrudge compensationt to people who we've harmed? And if they're sueing on behalf of their ancestors, I very much doubt courts would grant them compensation.

Yeah, but the thing is i'm alot more concerned that you are about this actually occuring. I don't like giving people the "opportunity" to take full advatage of the system. I love this country (holds hand on heart) and i dont want the government being under the threat of a 10 billion dollar compensation plan for something that happened 40 years ago, and what we thought welfare, compensation etc had already covered it.


*this is on a male:abuse ratio.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Yeah, but the thing is i'm alot more concerned that you are about this actually occuring. I don't like giving people the "opportunity" to take full advatage of the system. I love this country (holds hand on heart) and i dont want the government being under the threat of a 10 billion dollar compensation plan for something that happened 40 years ago, and what we thought welfare, compensation etc had already covered it.


*this is on a male:abuse ratio.

I dont think that there will be any more money compensation thingo's...maybe...now that Rudd is going to apologize

 

[Evilo]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

I dont think that there will be any more money compensation thingo's...maybe...now that Rudd is going to apologize

Please alert me to the legislation that stops them from suing the government for [extra] compensation.

 

[dey-tuk-re-jobz]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

I congratulate Triangulum on keeping his cool in this argument - I admire him for it, especially when it has become obvious that evilo is both challenged and disabled.

 

[Triangulum]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

So (hypothetically) if my father was "sexually abused" when he was a kid, i should be able to claim compensation off that?

I'm not saying that aborigines should be personally compensated for what happened to their parents or grandparents. But people who remain alive who were removed from their parents, possibly abused or mistreated in the missions, and so on should be compensated for what the government did to them, yes.

I disagree. The problems are usually caused by alcohol and substance abuse. I completly supported when the howard government went in popping goon sacks and arresting drunks. I am all for making high [alcohol related] abuse areas - "dry states"*.

I didn't say that it was just child removal that causes social problems in Aboriginal communities (although in a broader sense the mistreatment of Aborigines throughout Australia's post-1788 history has been a significant contributor to the problems in Aboriginal towns). And the 'intervention' is an entirely different kettle of fish to what we're discussing. What I'm saying is that an apology will symbolically end that chapter of European-Aboriginal relations and allow working together without recriminations, resentment, guilt and so on, and perhaps provide an impetus for getting things done. It's not a magic bullet that will suddenly turn Aurukun into Hong Kong or Singapore, but it'll be a important milestone on our path of reversing the long decline of Aboriginal standards of living which began in 1788.

Yeah, but the thing is i'm alot more concerned that you are about this actually occuring.

Good for you. I'm really not concerned at all. And I love this country as well, although I don't subscribe to hand-on-heart salute-the-flag nationalistic stuff, and I think that an open acknowledgement of and apology for what has happened to indigenous Australians in the course of our history will help Australia a lot more in moving forward than a legalistic mean-spirited refusal to apologise because we might have to compensate people. (Although I don't think that there would be billions of dollars in compo payouts, as I've mentioned.)

 

[Evilo]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

I congratulate Triangulum on keeping his cool in this argument - I admire him for it, especially when it has become obvious that evilo is both challenged and disabled.

wow you've resorted to name calling, great effort.

 

[Evilo]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

wow you've resorted to name calling, great effort.

Triangulum, i don't think we are going to agree on anything here - i cbf arguing for hours about aborigionals. It's the 21st century its time to move on, and i don't think moving on is done by saying sorry. We have industrialised the nation, provided infrastructure, provided 'state of the art' medical centres and have provided many luxuries the aborigionals would have never dreamed off.
We colonised the land, they didnt like it. You have you're opinion, i have mine.

/thread

 

[sam04u]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Evilo, any Isolated community without outside inspiration or influence is destined to revert into a tribalistic community. Just imagine what would happen if you suddenly found yourself on a desserted island for centuries. As much as you'd like to think you'd rebuild society - you wont.

Once the link with the indigenous Australians and the Europeans had been made. They could have had various methods of cultural exchanges that would have meant the Aboriginals could progress. If you honestly believe they came after the European occupiers - hand on spear. Then you've learnt a classic example of revisionist history.

Every great society has had a whole deal of outside inspiration, or atleast competition which allowed it to progress. If you want an example of that - just read up on the European dark ages.

What we brought them was humiliation, suffering and oppression. Just imagine what it would be like if an advance alien community did that to humans. They just came into our planet, killed a great deal of us. And then stated "we gave them technology and infrastructure".

Imagine how it would be like being humiliated, defeated, murdered and then ridiculed - and considered to be savages.

Imagine we were taken from our families, and taught that everything we had ever known was wrong.

Whichever way you look at it you can't justify it. An official apology is needed.

 

[katie_tully]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

I have no idea what the fuck is going on in this thread. I saw the first post, then I saw some bleeding heart bullshit 'ABOUT TIME' and then I saw some shit about compo, and then it was 50 posts on oil. I'm assuming there was a petrol joke thrown in.

I don't agree with the apology. I certainly don't agree with compo. I'm just confused, I want to know exactly what it is they're going to apologise for.

 

[katie_tully]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Sorry for the fucked up shit that was done, I can deal with that. Rudd was on Sunrise (lol) this morning saying there will be no compensation fund created for zii Abordigidals to claim reparations from after said apology.

Oh. And thats going to stop them from seeking monetry compensation too, isn't it.

 

[Xayma]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

Oh. And thats going to stop them from seeking monetry compensation too, isn't it.

No. But there is nothing stopping people affected from seeking compensation now. Having an apology and saying that the law was wrong does not retroactively make the law void. All activities that were legal at the time will still have been legal.

So (hypothetically) if my father was "sexually abused" when he was a kid, i should be able to claim compensation off that?

Did you even read what Triangulum said? They never said anything about the descendents being able to claim compensation just those who were sexually abused. So your dad should be able to claim compensation, but you couldn't on behalf of him.

 

[FerengCheng]

Re: Rudd to say Sorry on February 12

This has turned into a mud-fight, hasn't it...

The thing is, if Rudd apologies, the Aborigines will stop complaining. Other than that, there will be no other effects (since he's ruled out compo), so the world can just get on with whatever they were doing before.
He's just talking, dammit.