• Congratulations to the Class of 2024 on your results!
    Let us know how you went here
    Got a question about your uni preferences? Ask us here

Obama's speech to be banned before it's even heard? (2 Viewers)

Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
687
Location
NSW
Gender
Female
HSC
2009
September 4, 2009, 9:00 PM
Weekend Opinionator: Obama Goes Back to School
By TOBIN HARSHAW
To the list that includes Michael Cimino’s “Heaven’s Gate,” Ronald Reagan’s Strategic Defense Initiative and Steve Jobs’s NeXT computer — that is, ventures that were pretty much universally derided as a colossal failures before most anybody actually had a chance to see them — are we going to have to add Barack Obama’s 2009 education speech?

Politico’s Nia-Malika Henderson seems to think it’s a real possibility: “School districts from Maryland to Texas are fielding angry complaints from parents opposed to President Barack Obama’s back-to-school address Tuesday – forcing districts to find ways to shield students from the speech as conservative opposition to Obama spills into the nation’s classrooms.”

Will the president’s address to America’s students be deemed a failure before he even gives it?
More background from The Times’s James C. McKinley Jr. and Sam Dillon:

The uproar over the speech, in which Mr. Obama intends to urge students to work hard and stay in school, has been particularly acute in Texas, where several major school districts, under pressure from parents, have laid plans to let children opt out of lending the president an ear.

Some parents said they were concerned because the speech had not been screened for political content. Nor, they said, had it been reviewed by the State Board of Education and local school boards, which, under state law, must approve the curriculum …

Previous presidents have visited public schools to speak directly to students, although few of those events have been broadcast live. Mr. Obama’s address at noon, Eastern time, at a high school in Virginia, will be streamed live on the White House Web site.

The first President George Bush, a Republican, made a similar nationally broadcast speech from a Washington high school in 1991, urging students to study hard, avoid drugs and to ignore peers “who think it’s not cool to be smart.” Democrats in Congress accused him of using taxpayer money — $27,000 to produce the broadcast — for “paid political advertising.”
Those on opinionland’s right wing have decided this is not a moment for understatement. Here’s a Washington Times editorial: “In a move suggestive of the Pyongyang public school system, the U.S. Department of Education recommended that before the speech students collectively brainstorm questions like, ‘Why does President Obama want to speak with us today? How will he inspire us?’ Classrooms are to be festooned with ‘notable quotes excerpted (and posted in large print on board) from President Obama’s speeches about education,’ presumably alongside benevolent-looking images of the dear leader.”

And one doubts that it will make much difference that White House has decided to make a copy of the speech available to educators on Monday and to drop its suggestion that students “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president.”

Indeed, Michelle Malkin sees ominous overtones from the radical past:

Obama served with Weather Underground terrorist and neighbor Bill Ayers on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge education initiative. Downplaying academic achievement in favor of left-wing radical activism in the public schools is rooted in Bill Ayers’ pedagogical philosophy. Obama served as the program’s first chairman of the board, while Ayers steered its curricular policy. The two oversaw grants to welfare rights enterprise ACORN and to avowed communist Michael Klonsky – a close pal of Ayers and member of the militant Students for a Democratic Society. SDS served as a precursor to the violent Weather Underground organization.

A cadre of like-minded educators and national service administrators across the country share the same core commitment to transforming themselves from imparters of knowledge to transformers of society. The “change” agenda trains students to think only about what they should do for Obama – and rarely to contemplate how his powers and ambitions should be limited and restrained.

Ayers preached his education-as-“social justice” agenda to his “comrades” at the World Economic Forum in Caracas, Venezuela three years ago …
Just when we thought this was a one-noter, however, it turns out that not all conservatives are het up with outrage. CrunchyCon Rod Dreher, writing at BeliefNet, calls the reaction a “crazybomb on the Right,” while Hot Air’s Allapundit gives this response to an outraged PTA parent who asked why the president is “cutting out the parent” by speaking to kids during school hours:

Presumptive answer to her question: Because far fewer kids (and parents) are going to want to watch in the evening. People get grumpy when an Obama speech on something important preempts the primetime schedule; does she really believe they’re going to turn off “CSI” to watch The One drone on about education? I think kids can handle 20 minutes alone with him.
Among liberals, Steve Benen, the Political Animal, thinks Republicans are ignoring their own history, and not just that aforementioned appearance by the first President Bush:

In 1988, then-President Reagan spoke to students nationwide via C-SPAN telecast. Among other things, he talked about his positions on political issues of the day. Three years later, then-President Bush addressed school kids in a speech broadcast live to school classrooms nationwide. Among other things, he promoted his own administration’s education policies.

President Obama wants to deliver a message to students next week emphasizing hard work, encouraging young people to do their best in school. The temper tantrum the right is throwing in response only helps reinforce how far gone 21st-century conservatives really are.
The folks at The St. Petersburg Times’s PolitiFact, however, point out that vice is paying compliments to the virtue of both parties:

President George H.W. Bush gave an address to schools nationwide in 1991, from a junior high school in Washington, D.C. News reports from the time said the White House hoped that the address would be shown at schools nationwide …

You may have guessed this already, but news reports from the time indicate that Democrats criticized Bush for giving the speech.

“The Department of Education should not be producing paid political advertising for the president, it should be helping us to produce smarter students,” said Rep. Richard Gephardt, then the Democratic majority leader in the House of Representatives.”And the president should be doing more about education than saying, ‘Lights, camera, action.’”

Patricia Schroeder, then a Democratic member of Congress from Colorado, said the speech showed “the arrogance of power,” and that the White House should not be “using precious dollars for campaigns” when “we are struggling for every silly dime we can get” for education.
For Salon’s Joan Walsh, the right is using the president’s attempt to play a “paternal role” as another excuse to paint him as “the other“:

Where to start to explain this hysteria? Since the height of Sarah Palin’s dishonest and divisive campaign last September, I’ve been alarmed by the unique way in which Obama’s opponents paint him as “the other.” For the life of me, I can’t think of another American politician — not even Hillary Clinton, although it’s close — who has spurred such visceral, irrational hatred. (Tell me if I’ve missed anyone in comments.) Sure, John Kerry was “French” and Michael Dukakis was Greek (and looked like a pinhead in that dumb helmet), but only Obama is a Marxist Communist who pals around with terrorists and wants to harm your children.

The hysteria Obama inspires in his far-right foes is primeval, primordial. From the Birthers’ obsession with the facts of his birth — which lets them obsess about his origins in miscegenation — to the paranoia that he’s coming for the children, there’s a deep strand of irrational paranoia that can’t be anything other than racial. These people don’t merely disagree with him, they distrust and dislike him viscerally. He’s not merely wrong, he’s scary; even terrifying.
As for what that “other” is, Jim Shaw at the Huffington Post doesn’t mince euphemisms: “Beyond all the ’state indoctrination’ and even Hitler Youth analogies being propagated by Obama’s school chat, I’m wondering how much there is (or is also) a racist meme at play. It’s something along the lines of: You can’t trust your children alone with this man … knowing how black men are. Wink, wink.”

The conservative blogger Tigerhawk, however, makes an effort to find common ground with the Walsh argument:

Of course it ought to be fine for the President of the United States to deliver an address to the nation’s school children. The content will be moderate, constrained as it is by the great risk that it will infuriate parents, who also happen to be voters.

Of course the lefty irritation at the reaction of the right is intellectually dishonest. Had George W. Bush cooked up this idea, the screams from the left would have melted down the motherboards in our computers.

The problem, obviously, is that students in public schools are a captive audience. This is the real reason why liberals and non-religious people object so forcefully to voluntary school prayer — they believe that asking children to assert their right to excuse themselves is an unreasonable burden on their little psyches, risking as it does social opprobrium. I happen to think that argument has it all wrong — children who learn to stand up for their own beliefs at the expense, perhaps, of social popularity reveal strength of character, which is at a great premium in this world — but it is at the center of all but the most legalistic arguments against school prayer.

Well, why don’t the same arguments apply to Obama’s speech? Why should the little Hopeless kids have to raise a ruckus to avoid listening to a speech from the president? Are not their little psyches precious too?

The big solution is to get the government out of the business of actually running schools. That would mean more freedom for everybody and in all likelihood better and most cost-effective schools. We would also avoid these nettlesome arguments over prayer and presidential speeches, because no student would be captive to anything other than the choice of his or her parents, which is the way it ought to be. Sadly, there is no way that the Democrats would go for that.

Alternatively, how about we agree that schools are “free speech” zones, and that kids are free (at times and places that do not interfere with substantive instruction) to speak and listen — or not — without interference, whether or not the speech in question is religious, political, or politically incorrect? What better way to teach children to “question authority” — an idea that was very popular on the left until roughly eight months ago — than to defend their right to do so in school? Looked at that way, the opposition to Obama’s speech is itself a lesson in civics that the authorities who run our schools would do well to learn themselves.
And when it comes to cooler heads on the whole business, Jim Lingdren at the Volokh Conspiracy is chillin’:

One of the things that President Obama does best is inspire children. Accordingly, whether his speech is appropriate or not, it is likely to do more good than bad. At least I hope so …

The Obama administration has backed off its earlier suggestion for students to write “Dear Leader” letters. The sad thing is that government bureaucrats had to be told how inappropriate their plans were before they wised up.

Whether the Republican pushback plays well with the public or not, it may have dissuaded Obama from making statements as aggressively statist or collectivist as he would have made without the pushback. Personally, I will be watching for Obama’s statements about his 2008 campaign goal to have every middle and high school student perform 50 hours of community service every year. I suspect that the unexpected Republican opposition will cause him to softpedal this goal in his speech.
Interesting, but intending to parse the speech for details on community service would mean, gulp, actually listening to it before passing judgment.
What do you think of this?

Link: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/weekend-opinionator-obama-goes-back-to-school/
 
Last edited:

Absolutezero

real human bean
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
15,077
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
One of the things that President Obama does best is inspire children. Accordingly, whether his speech is appropriate or not, it is likely to do more good than bad
This. He was voted in, so give him the chance.
 

Tangent

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
523
Location
My World
Gender
Male
HSC
2010
I just have to say..... oh for crying out loud, cant do anything good these days without someone saying there are alterior motive.
Let him speak to the kids, you never know, it might actually do some good. Damn it, even if it is a political ploy, as long as it also motivates the students and make them feel inspired, does it matter????
 

SnowFox

Premium Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
5,455
Location
gone
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2009
He wants to inspire children but the parents wont let him?

What are they, drop outs themselves and they are going to learn they should of stayed in school, and feel bad because the black dude is saying they should have?

Idiots imo.
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

world
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
941
Location
Unknown
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
What are they, drop outs themselves and they are going to learn they should of stayed in school, and feel bad because the black dude is saying they should have?
Welcome to the Republican party of America.
 

loquasagacious

NCAP Mooderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
3,636
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2004
I initially was supportive of the speech however after reading the article and some further thinking I can not support it.

I think there is a lot of hyperbole about this issue and I in no way think that this is a case of the glorious leader rallying the children. However I do take the point that this should be viewed in the same way as prayer in schools - which I am opposed to. I also agree that regardless of the content of the speech it is politicised and I don't believe that schools are a place for party-political messages - as the article says imagine if Bush had proposed delivering a speech to all students....
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
687
Location
NSW
Gender
Female
HSC
2009
I initially was supportive of the speech however after reading the article and some further thinking I can not support it.

I think there is a lot of hyperbole about this issue and I in no way think that this is a case of the glorious leader rallying the children. However I do take the point that this should be viewed in the same way as prayer in schools - which I am opposed to. I also agree that regardless of the content of the speech it is politicised and I don't believe that schools are a place for party-political messages - as the article says imagine if Bush had proposed delivering a speech to all students....
Yeah. It does beg the question of the extent to which children should be politicised.
 

Sprangler

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
494
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
Letter From Secretary Arne Duncan to School Principals
Q: What is the speech about?

A: The goal of the speech and classroom activities is to challenge students to set goals, work hard and stay in school. This isn't a policy speech.

I also agree that regardless of the content of the speech it is politicised and I don't believe that schools are a place for party-political messages - as the article says imagine if Bush had proposed delivering a speech to all students....
If trying to get kids to work hard at school is one of Obama's policies - then yeah it is a politicized speech.

Bush did give a similar speech in 1991 with pretty much the same message.

excerpt-
If you don't work hard, who gets hurt? If you cheat, who pays the price? If you cut corners, if you hunt for the easy A, who comes up short? Easy answer to that one: You do.
The republicans were for it, and the democrats criticized it as being a pointless campaign. This time, the democrats are for it, and the republicans are against it because Obama the secret muslim nazi communist terrorist is trying to indoctrinate socialist values in the kids.

Also how the fuck is it comparable to prayer?
 

Tangent

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
523
Location
My World
Gender
Male
HSC
2010
Maybe let the kids decide then? And also, if it is being broadcasted ver the net, let people 'decide' whether they want to watch it or not.

If he wants to inspire the kids, then let him inspire them. Maybe somethnig good will come out of it.
 

SnowFox

Premium Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
5,455
Location
gone
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2009
He wants students to learn, and parents and political figures dont want him to because its a political spew fest.

If the students can even understand what Obama is saying in regards to what ever the hell is saying to gain votes, you will find those few will actually stay in school, and the rest would be the drop outs.
 

loquasagacious

NCAP Mooderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
3,636
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2004
Letter From Secretary Arne Duncan to School Principals





If trying to get kids to work hard at school is one of Obama's policies - then yeah it is a politicized speech.

Bush did give a similar speech in 1991 with pretty much the same message.

excerpt-


The republicans were for it, and the democrats criticized it as being a pointless campaign. This time, the democrats are for it, and the republicans are against it because Obama the secret muslim nazi communist terrorist is trying to indoctrinate socialist values in the kids.

Also how the fuck is it comparable to prayer?
Yes I did read the article.

My basic point is that any speech by a politician is a political speech. It doesn't matter whether Obama plans to discuss the importance of looking both ways when crossing the street or promotes his health reform proposal. In either case the message is associated with a politician and is therefore political.

By giving a speech about the merits of hard work and study Obama associates himself and his policies with these same values. His speech to the NAACP telling blacks to work harder was a political speech and in an identical fashion a speech to students telling them to work harder is a political speech.

Everything Obama does contributes to how he and his message are perceived, and therefore everything he does is politicised. I don't really see the confusion here.

As for the comparison with prayer in schools; I believe that neither religion or politics has a place in schools (part from the analytical study thereof).
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
687
Location
NSW
Gender
Female
HSC
2009
Hmm. While I agree with you in principle, I don't think that this politicisation has to be negative? If Obama speaks to the kids and inspires them and this means they have a better life, is that a bad thing? Of course, it could go either way.
 

loquasagacious

NCAP Mooderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
3,636
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2004
Could you in good conscience argue for George Bush to have addressed the children of America about the merits of hard work and study?

I'm not saying that the outcome of Obama's speech would be bad, you are quite right that it could be good. However if it is good then it grows the Obama 'brand' and lends credence to his message. Regardless of any other advantages there may be this is political.

This politicises schools. I am consistent in my position that no politician should be able to address school children in this way regardless of their message. Are you?

Would you have supported an address by Bush promoting 'no-child-left-behind'? How about Palin promoting abstinence? Powell discussing yellow-cake uranium? McCain talking about what it's like to be a POW? Reagan giving a 'surviving nuclear attack' public service announcement? Mccarthy denouncing communists?

If you reject any of the above, or any other address by a politician, then you are implicitly making a value judgement about politicians and supporting only the politics you believe in. This is no different to making a blanket statement like Democrats OK in schools, Republicans not OK in schools. Which is hypocrisy in it's crudest form.
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
687
Location
NSW
Gender
Female
HSC
2009
Ah, yes. I have to say that you've got me there. I *would* have issues with those other situations you've mentioned, thus making me hypocritical in my support of Obama addressing schools. However, I would argue hypocrisy does not inherently render a particular *position* invalid, it simply highlights the conflicting nature of our morals as humans. And, in the end, what's so wrong about making a 'value' judgment? Isn't that what politics is about? When voting for someone, we *make* value judgments. Obama has been voted in through millions of Americans' value judgments, which is an indication that they see his values as important. And if they see these values as important, they'd obviously want their kids to, as well.

In addition, to prevent Obama from addressing schools would be inconsistent with what has occurred in the past. Bush *did* address schools, there was politicisation during the Cold War with the 'Duck and Cover' campaigns, currently there are ads on TV about the 'Gathering Storm' of gay marriage. Perhaps politisisation isn't 'right' but it happens; indirectly and directly, kids are exposed to it through their parents, schools etc.

Moreover, I would argue that supporting Obama over Bush *is* different to stating 'Democrats OK in schools', 'Republicans not'. To do so is to suggest that all Republicans are the same, as are all Democrats. I would suggest that we should judge each person not by their party, but by their individual merits. From what I know about McCain, (ultimately very little) he is 'liberal' within his own party and was willing to vote against them on issues of importance to him, as well as being very gracious in his concession of defeat. So perhaps I *would* support him in addressing schools.
 

loquasagacious

NCAP Mooderator
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
3,636
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2004
Hypocrisy does undermine your argument. Because without consistency you are essentially making case-by-case decisions based on your individual politics, biases, experiences, etc. This does not apply any framework or rationale to the decision making process and leaves it to the whim of the decision maker.

School should not be about making value judgements, it should be about facts, and analysis of theories based on these facts. Otherwise we may as well make a 'value-judgement' that intelligent design should be taught instead of evolution.

Just because this has happened before does not make it right. Appeals to tradition serve to perpetuate the status quo and stifle progress - civil rights, abolition of slavery, womens vote, the vote at all, etc etc. All cases where the status quo was rejected and society advanced.

PS: in raw votes Obama only won by a relatively slim margin.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 2)

Top