Need advice from UTS law students. (1 Viewer)

[trevhk]

Having just recently received my ATAR results, I've been in a bit of a dilemma choosing between UNSW, UTS and Macq to study law. I don't know any UTS law students and thus, have not been able to talk to current law students. I'm concerned more so with the quality of teaching at UTS and a few other questions. If it isn't too much trouble, please contact me by adding me on MSN messenger (the_man_rocks@hotmail.com)

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pyrokinetic]

Im in the same situation!!

Except i only have ATAR high enough for Macq and UTS, transfer to UNSW is an option though. I'm interested in the quality of teaching at UTS for law as well, particularly what the difference is between studying law at UTS and UNSW... i know UNSW obviously has a better reputation and the credentials in Good Uni Guide (i think?) for best quality of teaching for Law but i'd rather hear from first hand student experiences of each UTS and UNSW.

UNSW law claims to have a higher focus on issues of human rights and social equality - does UTS have any less?

 

[Domm]

I'm a UTS law student.

If you have the marks for UNSW then UNSW has a good reputation so I would recommend that. On the whole I think that UNSW is overrated to death but I'm a Usyd graduate and you'd probably expect me to say that. But you cannot deny UNSW's group of eighthood and thus it's a good choice.

To actually answer your question though I like UTS Law a lot. Particularly as an undergraduate it doesn't really matter which uni you choose, and all the posturing that goes on in this forum is, I find, pretty ill-informed. You need to pick what is best for you.

There is nothing wrong with UTS law that I can think of so I'll tell you what's potentially right about it:

The location cannot be beat. Unless you live in the Eastern Suburbs, UNSW is a bit of a dog to get to and there's not much else there. UTS is in the city and right next to Chinatown, Central Station, heaps of bus routes, food and entertainment and all sorts of fun things.

UTS is also good for some things for combining degrees. UTS is known to be very good at IT, Business (though UNSW thinks it's pretty good at this as well. Seems like a international student money making venture to me, though UTS seems to focus a fair bit on this as well), International studies (if you're interested in this I would say UTS hands down) and communications. If you're more for Arts, usyd, club Mac or UNSW would be better.

Compared to my alma mater of usyd and I think the same probably applies to UNSW as well, I think UTS has a much more practical approach in general as well. I find their approach to students in terms of facilities to be very good as well. However the atmosphere is lacking compared to UNSW or Usyd or even Mac and the library at UTS is a bit shit as well.

UTS is the home of Austlii (as well as UNSW but it's all at UTS) and if its any indication the law school guide, communications law centre and stuff like that. So it isn't the forgotten law school of Sydney by any means. It was the first to offer the JD in Sydney I think as well. I think it's pretty innovative and forward thinking for those reasons.

On the whole as a new undergraduate you need to choose what is right for you and thus you need to ignore some of the crap that gets bandied around here. You can get into, for example, a top tier firm at any of the unis that you asked about in the OP. It's up to you to study hard. Some people get thingy about the prestige and the name of the uni (if you want this it's usyd) but in the end all undergraduate law students pretty much learn the same thing and I would even consider, given the marks you got and that you can choose, the geographical location of the unis.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do anyway. Law is hard work wherever you study it but if you like it and you're good at English it's really amazing too.

 

[Domm]

Im in the same situation!!

Except i only have ATAR high enough for Macq and UTS, transfer to UNSW is an option though. I'm interested in the quality of teaching at UTS for law as well, particularly what the difference is between studying law at UTS and UNSW... i know UNSW obviously has a better reputation and the credentials in Good Uni Guide (i think?) for best quality of teaching for Law but i'd rather hear from first hand student experiences of each UTS and UNSW.

UNSW law claims to have a higher focus on issues of human rights and social equality - does UTS have any less?

To me a 'higher focus on issues of human rights and social equality' sounds like a marketing gimmick.

You have to remember that you are an undergraduate. Human rights lawyers (and if anyone who has better information, ie not 'i know this guy who ...' wishes to correct me I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong) tend to be people who have been in the legal profession for some time. At least have a masters in human rights or international law or social equality or something. You do that sort of thing in your masters. Of course graduates from an LLB get employed in these fields as well but an undergraduate degree in law isn't going to equip you with expert knowledge in them regardless of a particular focus of the university and faculty.

An undergraduate law degree gives you a taste of all sorts of areas of a law. You'll do contracts, torts, criminal law, business law, etc at any uni. You can of course choose electives in things like human rights if you want to at UTS or anywhere else. But most undergraduates are focused more on getting a job at xyz firm.

Having said which I think UTS gives you plenty of training in the human side of law. They go on about ethics ad nausem for example and I think in your first year you get a solid grounding in all these kinds of law which you can persue if you wish. To be honest I don't think many people do but I cannot see your option to being limited by your university choice. In fact I'd make an informed decision based on other factors entirely.

In short I wouldn't pick one undergraduate course over the other on the basis of something like that.

 

[trevhk]

From your experience how have you found the law tutors, professors and academics at UTS? And if you are able to compare them to other uni's such as USYD mentioned above, do you feel that the teaching standards are better, lower or about the same at UTS?

 

[Pyrokinetic]

is it possible to get in unsw law with 99.05 atar?

Of course its possible, just not directly.

 

[Domm]

Trev: It's an undergraduate degree and thus in spite of popular opinion the quality of the faculty is going to be less important than your abilities and passions.

But they're not bad. There's some pretty well known people in legal academia at UTS. There's probably more at Usyd but UTS isn't bad. I think in the end it comes down more to the individual than it does to the staff unless they're really really awful. That certainly hasn't been my experience at UTS.

I'm not going to say that this is definitely the case but just something to think about: faculty don't really want to be teaching. They want to be researching as a general rule. High up, more prestigious people are, in my experience, cranky and don't at all necessarily make good teachers. So because of that I don't think having names that are droppable is necessarily the best thing in the world if you're considering that staff when choosing a law school.

 

[Pyrokinetic]

Thank you so much Domm!

Another question, in terms of resources available, you've mentioned that the UTS library isn't exactly great so when studying law at UTS did you find yourself having to peruse law libraries of USYD or UNSW? & If so are there any fees involved in using another uni's library?

This isn't a major factor in my decision making but i'm just curious.

 

[flamearrows]

Thank you so much Domm!

Another question, in terms of resources available, you've mentioned that the UTS library isn't exactly great so when studying law at UTS did you find yourself having to peruse law libraries of USYD or UNSW? & If so are there any fees involved in using another uni's library?

This isn't a major factor in my decision making but i'm just curious.

I'd be fairly surprised if you needed to venture from the UTS library at all frequently. Even if it isn't as good, it's probably more than good enough to complete undergraduate research.

In terms of interlibrary loans, they're possible but I think you need to call and arrange them. I've never needed a book badly enough to do it. The other option is to go to the State Library and pull the book you need and just photocopy what you're after (particularly since you'll likely only need an article or a chapter of whatever).

tl; dr library probably isn't that important

 

[melsc]

Additionally to what flamearrows said I rarely use the library other than to study or use the online resources, books for law outdate quickly so you will most likely use remote access to online law journals most of the time. If you do need things from other uni law libraries it will most likely be because a book is sought after rather than the uni not having it (unless your uni has more of a focus in some subject areas than others which happens some times) you can organise the interlibrary loans or more simply get a friend from another uni to get it for you.

Re the uni's you are looking at, I would only go to MQ if you want an interdisciplinary approach to law, they don't really advertise it this way but had I known I would have either stayed at UWS or transfered to UTS, MQ law is rather philosophical and not that practical, depends on what you want!

 

[Domm]

Yea what's said above is certainly true of UTS as well. But I think a good library is still important. The problems with the UTS library are that it's loud, though they've tried hard to fix this problem and they're certainly more successful than Usyd was when I studied there years ago, it's small, though see what Flame Arrows said above.

Small is bad though in terms of study space. There just isn't enough of it at UTS. This is because the student population has outgrown the size of the campus. They're building new buildings but by the time any of us graduate they won't be finished anyway.