Muslim People in Australia (2 Viewers)

[HotShot]

Huh? And what about the people walking along beaches, or along streets? Should they have to feel terrified about being targeted by certain rogue individuals?

The Muslim community should come foward with their trouble makers, just as we did with ours. If you're all so worried about the Muslim image in this country, you aren't doing a lot to try and rectify the situation.

i guess you wont understand, think it from a muslim perspective. all over the world, everyone is talkin about islam, with the iran nuclear plans, hamas comin into power, chechan problems, pakistan , danish cartoon it just goes on.

islam has been highlight in the last few years, and so these issues for which u want a simple answer have no simple answer. the issues itself is so complex, that even complex answer will not suffice as you have into account bias, perspectives and conditions.

its as simple as saying muslims handover ur trouble-makers- there is a lot more to it.

 

[banco55]

i guess you wont understand, think it from a muslim perspective. all over the world, everyone is talkin about islam, with the iran nuclear plans, hamas comin into power, chechan problems, pakistan , danish cartoon it just goes on.

islam has been highlight in the last few years, and so these issues for which u want a simple answer have no simple answer. the issues itself is so complex, that even complex answer will not suffice as you have into account bias, perspectives and conditions.

its as simple as saying muslims handover ur trouble-makers- there is a lot more to it.

It's a copout to say that the issues are so incredibly complicated that one can't begin to say that Islam has anything to do with it. You know what they say: "not all terrrorists are muslims but nearly all terrorists are muslims". Islam and the culture it breeds isn't the whole story but it is a big piece of the story.

 

[HotShot]

It's a copout to say that the issues are so incredibly complicated that one can't begin to say that Islam has anything to do with it. You know what they say: "not all terrrorists are muslims but nearly all terrorists are muslims". Islam and the culture it breeds isn't the whole story but it is a big piece of the story.

"Islam and the culture.." that statement is wrong, because the two things are different and this the fundament problem leading to the complexity of the issue. Islam is religion, whilst culture depends on ur background and its environment. Now if u look in IRaq you have shiite and sunnis fighting.. even more complexity.

 

[davin]

culture depends on environment and background, yes, and religion plays a big part of that.
the iraq thing you're overblowing....for a country where a dictator has just been removed, and the 20% that benefitted greatly under him are rather displeased with that, its doing remarkably well. the news stories for the last couple weeks now have been how it's ready to become a civil war tomorrow, but that has yet to happen because there you really are looking at very small groups of the population trying to incite said civil war.

 

[HotShot]

culture depends on environment and background, yes, and religion plays a big part of that.
the iraq thing you're overblowing....for a country where a dictator has just been removed, and the 20% that benefitted greatly under him are rather displeased with that, its doing remarkably well. the news stories for the last couple weeks now have been how it's ready to become a civil war tomorrow, but that has yet to happen because there you really are looking at very small groups of the population trying to incite said civil war.

i dont know if its going "remarkably well" if violence is increasing day by day....

 

[anonimous]

i find it quiet ironic to find that they tried not to justify it, as their religion promotes violence, why do you think they attract so much attention nowadays, terrorism is the up roots of islam, and it says it in their qu'ran (their holy book) and those of who deny it do not know their own religion well enough.

 

[tempco]

i find it quiet ironic to find that they tried not to justify it, as their religion promotes violence, why do you think they attract so much attention nowadays, terrorism is the up roots of islam, and it says it in their qu'ran (their holy book) and those of who deny it do not know their own religion well enough.

So you know Islam much better than Muslims themselves, seeing that you're so sure terrorism "is the up roots of Islam"?

:rofl:

 

[SabtheLab]

Islamic law NOW is more progressive than it used to be... now if you're claiming the law used to be a true reflection of sharia, yes it was better back then than other laws of the time - but to bring it to our timeframe would set muslim countries back even more.

You see, neither of us are going to agree here for the simple fact that you dont actually have a deep enough understanding of shariah law beyond what you read in the newspaper to be able to argue againt my point. To belittle something of which you have insufficient knowledge is a mistake on your part, but to then argue against it only serves to emphasise ignorance. To reduce something as complex as shariah to a set of "archaic laws that are barbaric and tribal in nature" and thus "should be thrown into the dustbins of history" is so overwhelmingly wrong, I cant even begin to explain why.

 

[sam04u]

maybe the muslim breakthroughs were highly advanced for 600ad, but they havent changed much since then. Muslims are stuck in the middle ages both with their morals and their restricting rules aswell as their technoledgy.

What do they have claim to? the invention of the matress and an impressive hole-in-ground toilet system. Wow how technologically advanced they are!

They havent changed much as a group since their group was first formed, that is why they havent contrbuted much

Im sick of fucks like you talkign about islam... you probably dont even know any muslims... but you choose to make assumptions? I dont think a story about an afghan girl has anything to do with the religion Islam.
But... then again... think islam is harsh on women is a stupid assumption too... the man is just as restricted... in some ways... Islam is a religion of moral values... most unretarted people can respect that.

Also, if you think of what you're saying you'll prove to yourself how retarded you are... muslims aren't ONLY the people who live in the middle east. Thats like generalising christians from the christian/catolics(orthodox) from where the religion originated too. But theres plenty of modern muslims.. Muhammad Ali is an example of one.

Truth is... if EVERYONE was muslim.. its not like society would cease to function... and technology would cease to exist.

But its hard to start technology.. when all the most powerful nations are taking advantage of your country for its oil... and making your country so poor that it cant build schools.

Think about what islam constitutes... respect for your wife... respect for your husband.. respect for your family... self discipline (Haj and Ramadan).

But then again... Islamic laws aren't for everyone... it would put alot of whores out of business....
And alot of homosexuals, alot of criminals, and anyone who has little moral values.

You COULD argue that islam does try and emphasise the idea of the women staying home and taking care of the family.... but then again look what happens to kids without a parent at home... they turn to drugs... sex... alcohol... and things that are plain dirty.


The more you hate us, the more powerful we become.

 

[SabtheLab]

and in response to katie_tully, i wont lie, there are some muslims who do not respect australian social values. well, social customs i guess, which could be described as values (i wont go into the argument generator and sly fly had). social values such as beer after work, sexual freedom, immodesty of dress etc. in saying that though i wouldnt class them as any less australian. they still hold universal values common in both Islam and the Australian social value system- give everyone a fair go, love thy neighbour (pardon the biblical allusion), working for a better and more harmonious society etc. and essentially these are the values that make someone a true Australian. I cant understand the fuss these days about "Muslims adopting Australia values". I can only assume Costello means the social values ive listed above. If so, then he's pointing to a non-existent problem, at most, inflating a problem limited to a minute element in the Muslim community comparable to any dissenting element in any community.

 

[katie_tully]

and in response to katie_tully, i wont lie, there are some muslims who do not respect australian social values. well, social customs i guess, which could be described as values (i wont go into the argument generator and sly fly had). social values such as beer after work, sexual freedom, immodesty of dress etc. in saying that though i wouldnt class them as any less australian. they still hold universal values common in both Islam and the Australian social value system- give everyone a fair go, love thy neighbour (pardon the biblical allusion), working for a better and more harmonious society etc. and essentially these are the values that make someone a true Australian. I cant understand the fuss these days about "Muslims adopting Australia values". I can only assume Costello means the social values ive listed above. If so, then he's pointing to a non-existent problem, at most, inflating a problem limited to a minute element in the Muslim community comparable to any dissenting element in any community.

Thank you. At last a response that doesn't go off the beaten track.

However no, Costello was not refering to social values. Australian's do not care whether you engage in our social values. Going out for a beer after work is not an integral part of being an Australian. Costello was refering to our values regarding the way we treat our neighbours and the way we view Australia. It is petty to think Costello would want to deport Muslims based on the fact they don't drink beer and they don't wear a bikini to the beach.

Nobody is talking about social values. They are not the issue. It is ignorant to think there are no Muslims in Australia who disregard our 'universal values', otherwise they would not be burning the Australian flag. =)
Radical Muslims in the Middle East disregard those same 'universal values' when they go on suicide missions and kill innocent people.

We are not penalising average law abiding Muslims purely because they lead a more conservative life. However, if there are some who truly take offense to the fact that we have a more liberal lifestyle, perhaps Australia was not the best country for them to have migrated to.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

You COULD argue that islam does try and emphasise the idea of the women staying home and taking care of the family.... but then again look what happens to kids without a parent at home... they turn to drugs... sex... alcohol... and things that are plain dirty.


The more you hate us, the more powerful we become.

As much as in my personal, private opinion I would hypothetically have a preference for having one parent at home for my own children, this is one of the most absurd generalisations I've yet seen on this forum (which is saying quite a lot). You are suggesting first that children with stay-at-home-mothers will not turn to drugs, sex or alcohol (obviously false), that those without them are are bound to (ridiculous, I'd be surprised if it was even 2% more common in this group) and finally that drugs, sex and alcohol are all necessarily bad (which they are not when used/done responsibly/in moderation).

My mother had a job, and I was a heroin addicted alcoholic selling my body to fund my addictions, then we converted to Islam. Now I run my own successful kebab shop, and my mother doesn't leave the house without a marquee on her head and handcuffed to my dad! Thanks Islam!

 

[katie_tully]

lolercoaster. My mum worked constantly and I was practically raised by my dad during my teens. So somebody pass me the bong.

 

[banco55]

I
Also, if you think of what you're saying you'll prove to yourself how retarded you are... muslims aren't ONLY the people who live in the middle east. Thats like generalising christians from the christian/catolics(orthodox) from where the religion originated too. But theres plenty of modern muslims.. Muhammad Ali is an example of one.

Truth is... if EVERYONE was muslim.. its not like society would cease to function... and technology would cease to exist.

But its hard to start technology.. when all the most powerful nations are taking advantage of your country for its oil... and making your country so poor that it cant build schools.

.

Those are pretty pathetic excuses. I'm sorry how does having a large oil industry prevent research and development? In case you haven't noticed Syria and Jordan don't have big oil deposits and they are still backward, third world shitholes. Meanwhile you have Israel that has no oil but does have massive military spending. Despite that Israel is a center for technology (particuarly IT etc.) and has a GDP per capita that is close to Western Europe. Why's Israel so much more succesful than it's Arab neighbours? For the same reason the Jews continue to outdo muslims in every area of human endeavour.

 

[katie_tully]

Jordan is somewhat more progressive though, thanks to their quite liberal King and Queen. It's just unfortunate that Jordan is surrounded by fanatical, rabid extremist Muslim nations.

 

[sam04u]

Didn't you get that? Some people are fucking mental.

Anyone who openly trades with a (fascist) communist country. Or a country that (supports terrorism) is under internation pressure... mainly by british and american powers. These people HAVE no money.. they have the worlds most valuable resource at the moment... they just dont have the means to defend themselves enough to provided restricted... access to it... to trade it the way they want to... because of the americans.

Islamic people are not RADICAL TERRORISTs who HATE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS.
Were just regular people... who live a life with moral values...

I never said Islamic countries were better then any other... but in some cases the world has treated some muslim counties unfairly... like palestine(read about it you'll understand) and now iraq...

The reality is... some people dont like discipline... when i see an australian/american girl who cares about the welfare of a muslim women.. i dont think bad about her... i respect her.. and love her for caring about my people....

But the thing is... Some people dont understand.. that a muslim persons life is one of little regret... little sin (hopefully, then theres fags lil bill skaff) and little fear.
A good muslim lives life to the fullest... they enjoy a simple life... regardless of the circumstances they're in... they obey the koran... they prey 5 times a day... to feel the presence of god (its also pretty difficult.. you have to be very clean and it involves alot of standing/sitting and bending... promoting 1.5 hours of exercise a day).

In islam a christian... who follows the bible fully or close to it... has just as much right to enter heaven. As long as you were born into that family....

Saying islamic people havent invented anything is stupid... here is a few examples of things invented by muslims;

The number system. (1,2,3,11,22,333, etc.) Otherwise you would be using roman numerals... making it impossible to come up with concepts such complex division which without there would not be programming...
The calculator...(need i say more)

Some other things... just too many to note...

Hating something you dont understand is called xenophobia, these people are in denial of the truth. (dont deny islam)

 

[davin]

The number system. (1,2,3,11,22,333, etc.) Otherwise you would be using roman numerals... making it impossible to come up with concepts such complex division which without there would not be programming...
The calculator...(need i say more)

congrats, you're wrong. the system was mainly Indian, it came through the Arab world before reaching Europe, but since it came from the arabic world, it then got called Arabic. its like the Spanish flu wasn't from Spain.

Which is not to say that the Islamic world didn't contribute to math and science historically, but don't try to claim additional stuff.

 

[katie_tully]

Sif using roman numerals is that bad anyway?
If we had grown up to use that system, it wouldn't appear that ridiculous to us.

 

[banco55]

congrats, you're wrong. the system was mainly Indian, it came through the Arab world before reaching Europe, but since it came from the arabic world, it then got called Arabic. its like the Spanish flu wasn't from Spain.

Which is not to say that the Islamic world didn't contribute to math and science historically, but don't try to claim additional stuff.

It says a lot about a society if you have to go back hundreds of years to find the last time they made signifigant scientific contributions.

 

[davin]

Sif using roman numerals is that bad anyway?
If we had grown up to use that system, it wouldn't appear that ridiculous to us.

actually, yes, roman numerals are useless for most scientific purposes. working in base 10 (really working in any base) made a lot more math and science possible and the idea of zero is key, and took a long time for it to be reached.
its not a simple perspective thing.