Muhammad Cartoon Controversy (2 Viewers)

[Enlightened_One]

I think religiousism (or whatever the word) is worse than racism. Furthermore, it's not so much that they drew a picture of him....but the pictures were in very bad taste and they associated him with bombs/terrorism etc.
QUOTE]


As someone else tried to point out, not all the cartoons concerned terrorism. I detest people who try and insult religion for no other reason than that it exists. I mean those people who have no moral reason against it etc, they just have to pettily attack it. That being said, religious notions cannot be free from criticism and question. There must limits drawn in a secular society about what is permissable and what is not. If we refrain from making criticism of religions out of fear of 'hurting their feelings' or just out of general fear, then we do a disservice. If there is a valid quibble with something of a religious nature that offends what you stand for then you have a right in a free and democratic country to express that. As such, I am against the islamic treatment of women in it's more radical aspects (such as having to walk so many paces behind the husband) and other archaic principles. As such I would never rest if such draconian ways became law here, so as not to offend muslims.


Anyway, terrorism is a valid and confronting question concerning islam. It seems to me that these cartoons were trying to ridicule the forced, fearful political correctness that has shrowded once free, democratic nations. It is a sad state of affairs when an illustrator cannot do his job out of fear.

 

[withoutaface]

What question was that?

Is Islam the base of terrorism (ie is the bomb growing from Muhammad) or does terrorism just latch onto Islam (ie has the bomb forcibly attached itself to his head).

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I think religiousism (or whatever the word) is worse than racism.

Definitely not. Religion is a set of beliefs, race is a natural, unchangeable aspect of a person.

You can criticise people for holding a certain belief by pointing out why it is wrong - they can then change their belief. You cannot criticise someone's race, firstly because they cannot change it, and secondly there isn't any logic in doing so.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

“The law prohibits publicly disseminated statements, which threaten, insult, or degrade persons based on their religion.”

That would have no application to merely depicting Muhammad. You aren't attacking people, you're attacking their beliefs.

 

[Enlightened_One]

I heard Kevin Rudd say this morning that a paper in Richmond was printing the cartoons. And my respect for Kevin Rudd went up when he said that we should be standing by Denmark.

 

[SashatheMan]

I heard Kevin Rudd say this morning that a paper in Richmond was printing the cartoons. And my respect for Kevin Rudd went up when he said that we should be standing by Denmark.

i think a brisbane paper published one aswell. someone might have said that already , but i am saying it again

 

[SashatheMan]

Definitely not. Religion is a set of beliefs, race is a natural, unchangeable aspect of a person.

You can criticise people for holding a certain belief by pointing out why it is wrong - they can then change their belief. You cannot criticise someone's race, firstly because they cannot change it, and secondly there isn't any logic in doing so.

michael jackson did lol

but i agree with you. race is unchangable, beleifs are

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I think religiousism (or whatever the word) is worse than racism.

Um ok... Why?

When someone criticises a religion... they are usually criticising some sort of belief or practice which permeates through the religion. There are no permeating beliefs throughout a race, there are no practices which permeate throughout a race... If you criticise a race you are just being racist as there is no substance to your criticisms - practices/beliefs do not go along with race.

Also as MLS pointed out, you can't change your race - You can change your beliefs.

It's purpose was obviously to insult a person - the prophet (p).

Well the prophet or someone from his family can then sue the newspaper. However even then I imagine it could be easily argued that muhammed in this sense is not a 'person' but a mythical figure and symbol of the religion of Islam - while there may have been a person, the person was not what was being portrayed in the cartoons.

The laws aren't just about supporting naziism, but even questioning the holocaust can have severe ramifications.

Well I don't support such laws, however your reference I believe points out the confusion...

In France a university professor was sacked because he made a research questioning the magnitude of the Holocaust.'

This is not an example of those laws in practice... Universities can sack professors whom are doing poor quality research or even fabricating research. Another point to make is that there should be restrictions on freedom of speech when it comes to teachers due to their position.

Anyway, honestly...I don't know why you people are so worked up about this. I don't see anything wrong with Muslims protesting about the cartoons.

ALL of the protests that I have seen are about violence and call for ends to freedom of speech. If the muslims were simply protesting because they didn't like it and were perhaps asking for an appology I imagine alot of people on this board would be on their side - but they're not. They're asking for the newspaper to be severely punished, they want to hurt the people of denmark (and now europe) and they're going on like a pack of babies that need a good spanking.

The reason why Islam is portrayed close to terrorism is because... well it is. There's no denying that Islam has been hijacked by alot of fundamentalist terrorists whom we all should hate... Does this mean all muslims are evil? No. Does this mean Islam is severely tainted by terrorism? Yes.

 

[SashatheMan]

i think rather than running around trying to tell us that Islam is a religion of peace, maybe muslims should concentrate on convincing your fellow muslims of that principle, and stop them trying to coerce the rest of the world through violent protests and terrorist threats to impose an Islamic version of political/cultural censorship. Do something about the extremist muslims, make the islamic leaders do something about it.
Stop passing the buck and take responsibility. muslims will stop being seen as terrorists when they stop acting like terrorists.

 

[SashatheMan]

Iran to publish Holocaust cartoons
From: Agence France-Presse From correspondents in Tehran
February 07, 2006

IRAN'S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.

"It will be an international cartoon contest about the Holocaust," said Farid Mortazavi, the graphics editor for Hamshahri newspaper - which is published by Teheran's conservative municipality.
He said the plan was to turn the tables on the assertion that newspapers can print offensive material in the name of freedom of expression.

"The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let's see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons," he said.

Iran's fiercely anti-Israeli regime is supportive of so-called Holocaust revisionist historians, who maintain the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews as well as other groups during World War II has been either invented or exaggerated.

Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad prompted international anger when he dismissed the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe's Jews as a "myth" used to justify the creation of Israel.

Mr Mortazavi said tomorrow's edition of the paper will invite cartoonists to enter the competition, with "private individuals" offering gold coins to the best 12 artists - the same number of cartoons that appeared in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten.
Last week, the Iranian foreign ministry also invited British Prime Minister Tony Blair to Teheran to take part in a planned conference on the Holocaust, even though the idea has been branded by Mr Blair as "shocking, ridiculous, stupid".

Mr Blair also said Mr Ahmadinejad "should come and see the evidence of the Holocaust himself in the countries of Europe", to which Iran responded by saying it was willing to send a team of "independent investigators".

it will be interesting to see what the response will be from jewish people. i am sure it will be egnored, and seen as child like retaliations. Then it will really put a spot light on the people who cant behaive themselves and act like animals on the streets due to a simple cartoon.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

IRAN'S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed.

That's nothing new, but it's still such a terrible comparison... Drawing muhammed in the way it was done and making fun of a holocaust that killed 6 million people is quite different. It also shows that they're not sticking to their principle... they claim the cartoon shouldn't have been made because it's disrespectful - now they are creating a disrespectful cartoon... now that they have done this, does this mean they no longer have any problem with us producing these cartoons?

 

[zeek]

Damn how stupid was that Danish newspaper?
Sure, you have freedom of speech but bloody hell, drawing cartoons of mohammod and then publishing them is like jumping into shark infested waters... NAKED!!!

 

[SashatheMan]

Damn how stupid was that Danish newspaper?
Sure, you have freedom of speech but bloody hell, drawing cartoons of mohammod and then publishing them is like jumping into shark infested waters... NAKED!!!

and you know what we do, when sharks attack people, we find them and kill them to make the water safe again.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Damn how stupid was that Danish newspaper?
Sure, you have freedom of speech but bloody hell, drawing cartoons of mohammod and then publishing them is like jumping into shark infested waters... NAKED!!!

But drawing cartoons of Jesus having rough anal sex with the pope is like jumping into minnow infested waters. Because, as the Australian media and Shieks/Imams/Muftis know too well, Freedom of speech must ALWAYS be upheld... unless someone threatens violence.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If the existance of a bunch of arseholes means I can't draw whatever the hell I want anymore, than I think there's a problem in this world that needs addressing.

We let these people practice their religion in our country, we even allow them to set up schools that get government funding, we assist them to set up their mosques in the name of tollerance, we set up special community broadcast stations so they can get some programming which they would enjoy - and then we can't draw a picture?

 

[zeek]

and you know what we do, when sharks attack people, we find them and kill them to make the water safe again.

Not ALL the time lol

But drawing cartoons of Jesus having rough anal sex with the pope is like jumping into minnow infested waters. Because, as the Australian media and Shieks/Imams/Muftis know too well, Freedom of speech must ALWAYS be upheld... unless someone threatens violence.

Yeah well there's the problem with Christians/Catholics. Unfortunately, everytime a cartoon like this is released, there is either no one or just a small minority of people willing to go against it. If there were large groups, then these cartoons would not be so frequent, and you wouldn't be using that as an argument.
I agree, the Muslims who are carrying out these stupid embassy attacks are retarded but shit, wouldn't the Danes know by now that religion is not something you should fuck around with? especially islam....

btw, im neutral, and no im not muslim

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yeah well there's the problem with Christians/Catholics.

No. It highlights the problem with these muslims. It is not right to jump up and down, burn things down, act like a spoilt little brat whenever you don't get your way. Freedom is paramount to our awesome societies and at least most of the christians can realise this.

On this topic actually, I think you need to realise that the christian church / religion tried for hundreds of years to stop the formation of our now secular societies. There was alot of bloodshed because of these religions however we fought it off and became free nations.

Danes know by now that religion is not something you should fuck around with?

By your logic perhaps the danes should retaliate and show them that denmark is not something you should fuck around with. Or perhaps the free world should show the muslims that freedom is not something you fuck around with? I'm sure you'd have the same attitude then.

btw, im neutral, and no im not muslim

I don't believe you.

 

[SashatheMan]

I agree, the Muslims who are carrying out these stupid embassy attacks are retarded but shit, wouldn't the Danes know by now that religion is not something you should fuck around with? especially islam....

the point is, we are allowed to "fuck" with religion if we dont agree with it. thats what denmark is trying to say, that we are allowed to show that we dont agree with islam if we want to.

catholics dont protest, because they understand how to act peacufully and egnore it. They also understand the idea of a secular society, which muslims still have to learn about.

 

[zeek]

No. It highlights the problem with muslims. It is not right to jump up and down, burn things down, act like a spoilt little brat whenever you don't get your way. Freedom is paramount to our awesome societies and at least most of the christians can realise this.

Okay okay, so what would happen if i went to India and slaughtaured every single cow? (Hindu's worship cows... i think) OR what if i went there and ate beef infront of thousands of hindus?
What do you think they would do?

By your logic perhaps the danes should retaliate and show them that denmark is not something you should fuck around with. Or perhaps the free world should show the muslims that freedom is not something you fuck around with? I'm sure you'd have the same attitude then.

Nah, wouldn't work coz Denmark nor the Free World is a religion.
You are acting as if all of a sudden all muslims around the world want an end to free speech lol, that is not the case.

I don't believe you.

meh too bad for you

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Okay okay, so what would happen if i went to India and slaughtaured every single cow? (Hindu's worship cows... i think) OR what if i went there and ate beef infront of thousands of hindus?
What do you think they would do?

I dunno, but they seem to not be going too crazy about our gigantic dairy/beef industries so I don't think they're too fussed about it mate.

Nah, wouldn't work coz Denmark nor the Free World is a religion.

What? How doesn't it work because it's a religion?

You are acting as if all of a sudden all muslims around the world want an end to free speech lol, that is not the case.

No I'm not, it is however obvious that large segments do want to limit certain freedoms including free speech... I've come to this conclusion from:

- Seeing thousands of muslims protesting for this.
- Seeing the way in which predominately muslim nations are often run.
- Hearing the opinions of what should be the most moderate of muslims on this board.
- and more...