Muhammad Cartoon Controversy (2 Viewers)

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

my point is, though, that people are angry with being told that that was one of the thing published, but it wasn't. all accuracy of claims aside.

 

[ihavenothing]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Anyone for Carlsberg Beer? I'm having one right now...

 

[HotShot]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Personally, the whole thing didn't really upset me. A portrait of Muhammad already exists in the Supreme Court of the US. Rehnquist said that the image of Muhammad is there not for purpose of idolatry but to recognize that he was an important figure in the history of law. If Muhammad can be an important figure, we’re going to have to live with him being a figure of rancor.


Moreover, Islam is not the only religion which has been subject to the western mockery of religion. Jesus in urine. Mary in manure. People argue that this is different because its the prophet and images of him are forbidden in Islam. I have to ask: how is depicting Muhammad as a comic figure different than soaking the image of Christ into urine? Which is a greater violation? Did Muslims around the world stand up against the Piss Christ? Can’t remember? That’s because the answer is no. Most Muslims probably didn’t even know of the Mary painting until now. Yet, isn’t there a Surah in the Quran with her name?

Thats where you are completely wrong!. As believer of a faith, you cannot allow people to mock it, humiliate it, disrespect etc. It not only disrespectable to that faith, your are questioning its credibility, opening it up to more mockery, and as result creating an ill image of it.

Does it really matter, whether what kind of drawing it was? It was drawing against Islam a religion. A drawing against its believers and followers!. So how can you expect it be ok, that they should not be punished and that they can continue to draw such images? It doesnt matter which ones is a greater violation, after all it is still a violation.

Also remember, Jesus has already been drawn (on the cross) and yet you have no idea how he looks like, and thu s any drawing of the muhammed is completely banned!. Oh and you dont if its really Mary, its a drawing.

Muslims didnt stand up against Jesus, cos they dont believe in him as christians do.
You are basically that you are allowed to mock other peoples faiths, nationalities etc

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

But Islam is a belief. Like capitalism. Like communism. Like Nazism, and as such it should be open to criticism. I really don't give a shit if you get offended, because honestly if I were to get that worked up every time capitalism was caricatured I'd be a very cynical man.

 

[HotShot]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

But Islam is a belief. Like capitalism. Like communism. Like Nazism, and as such it should be open to criticism. I really don't give a shit if you get offended, because honestly if I were to get that worked up every time capitalism was caricatured I'd be a very cynical man.

Yes, its a belief but its not like capitalism or communisn which were all created by men. Religion is debatable on its creation and thus its very different from imperialism and the likes.

Why is it different? any action considered bad to a religion is considered 'evil' and and a result is strongly opposed.

Look, dont expect people who deeply believe in faith to stand there and just look at these drawing, they have every right to oppose, and they should oppose it because they believe. If they just stood there and did nothing, it means they accept it!

And they dont give a shit if you care or not!

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

exactly agreeing with withoutaface....i see no reason to seperate ideology and religion as different catagories. i mean, doesn't effect the strength of the belief.

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Yes, its a belief but its not like capitalism or communisn which were all created by men. Religion is debatable on its creation and thus its very different from imperialism and the likes.

the counter being religion WAS created by man. If you say it isn't, then you've got to pick that only one religion can't be insulted, and the rest were created by men.

aslo, as your arguement was taht people believe it strongly, how do the origins matter then, so long as it is beleived by someone enough that attacking it would effect them as well?

 

[Lundy]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Yes, its a belief but its not like capitalism or communisn which were all created by men. Religion is debatable on its creation and thus its very different from imperialism and the likes.

Why is it different? any action considered bad to a religion is considered 'evil' and and a result is strongly opposed.

Look, dont expect people who deeply believe in faith to stand there and just look at these drawing, they have every right to oppose, and they should oppose it because they believe. If they just stood there and did nothing, it means they accept it!

And they dont give a shit if you care or not!

Religion was created by man.

 

[HotShot]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

the counter being religion WAS created by man. If you say it isn't, then you've got to pick that only one religion can't be insulted, and the rest were created by men.

aslo, as your arguement was taht people believe it strongly, how do the origins matter then, so long as it is beleived by someone enough that attacking it would effect them as well?

how can you say that? are you suggesting that only one religion was created by God? god could have created all the religions?

Your point is invalid.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Yes, its a belief but its not like capitalism or communisn which were all created by men. Religion is debatable on its creation and thus its very different from imperialism and the likes.

Why is it different? any action considered bad to a religion is considered 'evil' and and a result is strongly opposed.

Look, dont expect people who deeply believe in faith to stand there and just look at these drawing, they have every right to oppose, and they should oppose it because they believe. If they just stood there and did nothing, it means they accept it!

And they dont give a shit if you care or not!

YOU believe that religion was not created by men. That's not good enough, because you can't prove it wasn't. They don't have to like the drawing, but they have to accept the artists right to draw it.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I shall fight to the death for your right to say it" - Voltaire.

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

how can you say that? are you suggesting that only one religion was created by God? god could have created all the religions?

Your point is invalid.

well, considering differing religions contradict, yes.
and you still haven't proven that they are created by god.
or why that makes them different from beliefs that aren't religious, but still believed equally strongly.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Unfortunately for muslims, there is significant proof that it probably was created by man... whether you want to postulate that the creator inspired it in man, well you can say that but you have no proof... where as we can demonstrate quite easily how religions can be started by man.

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

god told me capitalism is the way. therefore, it has equal footing with islam, then.

 

[HotShot]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

well, considering differing religions contradict, yes.
and you still haven't proven that they are created by god.
or why that makes them different from beliefs that aren't religious, but still believed equally strongly.

I am not suggesting that religion was created by god, I am saying it is difficult to say that men created it.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

I am not suggesting that religion was created by god, I am saying it is difficult to say that men created it.

It's difficult to prove that communism isn't the inspired word of God into marx too... I don't see your point.

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

still though, why do the origins matter, if the reason it can't be mocked is because people believe it deeply?

 

[banco55]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

Thats where you are completely wrong!. As believer of a faith, you cannot allow people to mock it, humiliate it, disrespect etc. It not only disrespectable to that faith, your are questioning its credibility, opening it up to more mockery, and as result creating an ill image of it.

Does it really matter, whether what kind of drawing it was? It was drawing against Islam a religion. A drawing against its believers and followers!. So how can you expect it be ok, that they should not be punished and that they can continue to draw such images? It doesnt matter which ones is a greater violation, after all it is still a violation.

Also remember, Jesus has already been drawn (on the cross) and yet you have no idea how he looks like, and thu s any drawing of the muhammed is completely banned!. Oh and you dont if its really Mary, its a drawing.

Muslims didnt stand up against Jesus, cos they dont believe in him as christians do.
You are basically that you are allowed to mock other peoples faiths, nationalities etc

That's fine. Write letters to the editor, register your protests but in a democracy that's all you can do and that's all you should be able to do.

 

[HotShot]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

still though, why do the origins matter, if the reason it can't be mocked is because people believe it deeply?

If you believe in anything deeply, wouldn't you fight for it, stand by it etc. I mean what was WWI or WWII fought for? It was fought for democracy a belief? It was fought against Nazi's a belief that they were a totalitarian regime? Japan fought for their belief in economics, America bombed Japan for their belief in security.

People do anything if they believe in somethin, whether it be true or not.

 

[banco55]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

If you believe in anything deeply, wouldn't you fight for it, stand by it etc. I mean what was WWI or WWII fought for? It was fought for democracy a belief? It was fought against Nazi's a belief that they were a totalitarian regime? Japan fought for their belief in economics, America bombed Japan for their belief in security.

People do anything if they believe in somethin, whether it be true or not.

Of course than the people you fight against will fight back.

 

[davin]

Re: Jihad Against Danish Newspaper

If you believe in anything deeply, wouldn't you fight for it, stand by it etc. I mean what was WWI or WWII fought for? It was fought for democracy a belief? It was fought against Nazi's a belief that they were a totalitarian regime? Japan fought for their belief in economics, America bombed Japan for their belief in security.

and yet, while i believe in democracy, i believe in stopping the Nazis, and I believe in the reasons behind bombing Japan, i also believe that people have the right to criticise and, even if they want to, ridicule those beliefs. because i live in a free society. that doesn't mean i have to like what other people say, or feel that it has some merit. but i believe that they have the RIGHT to mock or criticise whatever they want. That is freedom of speech, there.