Medicine at UNSW and UWS (2 Viewers)

[lambros92]

Ok so I'm thinking this is a very stupid question, but...

When you all mention scores in UMAT, e.g. 62 or 186....are those scores out of 100 and 300 respectively? If so, I'm assuming UMAT is a VERY difficult exam if people don't score much higher than 70. If someone could please clarify that, I'd really appreciate it. Cheers

 

[nottellingu]

Ok so I'm thinking this is a very stupid question, but...

When you all mention scores in UMAT, e.g. 62 or 186....are those scores out of 100 and 300 respectively? If so, I'm assuming UMAT is a VERY difficult exam if people don't score much higher than 70. If someone could please clarify that, I'd really appreciate it. Cheers

When they talk about 62 thats their RAW score or avg score.
When you get your UMAT results it will look like this:

Section 1:61 Section 2: 59 Section 3: 60 Percentile: 90
UMAT Score: 60

Then they'll have a link to the percentile graphs for each section if you want to see how you went compared to the others.

It is not out of 300 or anything. Generally speaking 150 is avg (no chance of interview unless you are rural) 175 above avg (interview if you live in the GWS area, at UNSW if you have a 99.5~ atar or for some provisional programs eg. UQ, Griffith), 180(top 10% interview at most places) 195(very high score), 210(100 percentile).

 

[KFunk]

Private hospitals are currently not used in Australia for teaching medical students or junior doctors.

This is not the case. I have attended private hospitals and clinics for both urology and orthopaedic surgery. In each case UNSW has had formal teaching affiliations with the respective private hospitals and practitioners.

 

[Wooz]

But as fully fledged teaching hospitals?

 

[diametric]

is nottellingu the same one who left mso?

lol, I thought you were a bit more knowledgeable when it came to medicine. Guess not.

I also can't believe that some people even think the university you attended would have any impact on your internship/residency/basic training/advanced training. It's simply baffling.

 

[nottellingu]

is nottellingu the same one who left mso?

lol, I thought you were a bit more knowledgeable when it came to medicine. Guess not.

I also can't believe that some people even think the university you attended would have any impact on your internship/residency/basic training/advanced training. It's simply baffling.

From what I know its randomised.

Since the impact of the med student tsunami hasn't hit yet its hard to tell how things will work in a few years time. It could be a possibility that students from certain universities are looked upon more favorably than others. Sure its unlikely but you cant tell until the time comes.

 

[nottellingu]

I also can't believe that some people even think the university you attended would have any impact on your internship/residency/basic training/advanced training. It's simply baffling.

I'm not having a go at you here but I'd be thinking the same thing if i was at a lower ranked university.

Its highly unlikely that it would happen and if it does it wont have any impact beyond internship.

I hope it doesnt go down that road because I'd rather go to uws than unsw

 

[diametric]

If I at all believed that certain universities would be looked upon more favourably with the arrival of the medical student tsunami, I would of accepted my offer to study medicine at Monash University.

Also, if you actually wanted to do medicine at UWS, you would of been doing Adv Sci at UWS, and not Med Sci at UNSW.

The most likely response to the med student tsunami will be an increase in internships, with much, much more competition at the College-admittance level. And really, after your internship and several years of residency, that is what matters, and not the university you attended.

Learn before you talk.

 

[nottellingu]

If I at all believed that certain universities would be looked upon more favourably with the arrival of the medical student tsunami, I would of accepted my offer to study medicine at Monash University.

If you go to med school outside of NSW then it'll be much harder for you to come back and do your internship here as all the NSW graduates would be given first preference.

Sure you might get an internship in victoria but i think they base it on marks - im not sure about this but if it were the case the uni you graduate from wouldn't matter.

Also, if you actually wanted to do medicine at UWS, you would of been doing Adv Sci at UWS, and not Med Sci at UNSW.

Yea I considered that but I didnt like the UWS Adv Sci program and I don't think it would give me a considerable enough advantage to conisder it seriously.

The most likely response to the med student tsunami will be an at the College-admittance level. And reincrease in internships, with much, much more competition ally, after your internship and several years of residency, that is what matters, and not the university you attended.

Source please?
There is no way to tell how it'll work but you seem to know it all!

Learn before you talk.

Grow up dude!
You don't know as much as you think you do. Pull the pole out of your arse, mummys proud that you're a med student.

 

[diametric]

lol dude, I'm not the one making all these wild assumptions that are so, so wrong without even being in the system:

"Its highly unlikely that it would happen and if it does it wont have any impact beyond internship."

Your internship is a lot more important than med school.

"You just made the cut-off?
Last year it was around 183?

GWS students got interviews this year with mid 160's"

Completely incorrect with regards to the UWS system. Despite the fact that you've
been a med hopeful for a while now.

"Do they have interviews for internships?
So its like any other job?"

Seriously? I honestly though you'd know this. You seemed quite knowledgeable back on mso.

And then you have the audacity to say:

"So many noobs haha.
Dont worry guys...we've all been there."

LOL.

 

[nottellingu]

lol dude, I'm not the one making all these wild assumptions that are so, so wrong without even being in the system:

"Its highly unlikely that it would happen and if it does it wont have any impact beyond internship."

Your internship is a lot more important than med school.

What that statement meant was that IF med school played a role it wouldnt have any impact beyond internships. I am not assuming whether or not it will play a role but i agree with you in that it is highly unlikely that it will. Im not the one saying that the govt "most likely" create more intern places. If only it were that easy . Im not sure who's making wild assumptions.
Someone with as much encyclopedic knowledge about the profession as you do should know that references you get are what matter beyond that point.

Even the health ministers haven't released a devised a plan yet. They have just "acknowledged their commitment to provide all Australian medical and nursing graduates with an intern place to allow them to complete their training. " Since you're in the "system" and you ignorantly see this situation in black and white maybe you should send them an email.

"You just made the cut-off?
Last year it was around 183?

GWS students got interviews this year with mid 160's"

Completely incorrect with regards to the UWS system. Despite the fact that you've
been a med hopeful for a while now.

I misread that particular post. I know exactly how the UWS system works and they've been halving section 3 for a couple of years now. I just used the raw total as a rough estimate considering the person got 192 raw its safe to assume that they would have got over the cut-off after halving section 3. Wooz corrected that anyway so I don't know why you're bringing it up.

"Do they have interviews for internships?"

I still don't know the answer to this. Im a nub who isnt in the 'system' so please enlighten me with an answer.

 

[diametric]

In NSW, allocation of internships is based on a lottery system. All applicants submit their preferences of the hospitals they would like to do their internship at. It is rare that an applicant's first preference will be what they're allocated, therefore, some people put their desired preference a bit lower on the list, to try and sneak their way through the system. No-one really knows if that actually works though. There is no interview or anything like that. The next major interview in a doctor/med student's life is when they apply to their respective College.

 

[nottellingu]

In NSW, allocation of internships is based on a lottery system. All applicants submit their preferences of the hospitals they would like to do their internship at. It is rare that an applicant's first preference will be what they're allocated, therefore, some people put their desired preference a bit lower on the list, to try and sneak their way through the system. No-one really knows if that actually works though. There is no interview or anything like that. The next major interview in a doctor/med student's life is when they apply to their respective College.

That works well at the moment but is it likely to change when you flood out 2200~ graduates in 2012 and this does not include international students.
When you have about 800~intern places (assuming that they don't increase the amount of intern places by then) do you think they are going to keep deciding by ballot? God knows.
Now if 500-600 miss out the first time then what? You have like 2700~ the next year and the problem will be compounded each year.
The reason this is a big issue is because its not black and white. Its easy to get media attention when you have a lack of intern places but its a lot harder at the college level.

 

[diametric]

I think the problem may be combatted by:

1) Internship places are merely increased and entry into the RACP and RACS (not so much the RACGP) becomes nigh impossible.

2) Internship places are increased, a LOT more foreign doctors are funnelled into the system + a few more hospitals.

3) Internship allocation system is changed. Higher marks in med school = more preference. Still doesn't really change too much at the College-admittance level. However, those who've completed their internship at eg, Concord, may have references from more recognised doctors, than someone who's been sent to the bush for their internship.

4) Private hospitals become an option for internships.

5) For the first few years of the med student tsunami, some people go without an internship. The LEAST likely of the possible scenarios.

The main problem with the med student tsunami isn't with internships, it's with senior, qualified doctors training registrars. And there just aren't enough to train the number of graduates. Many people may decide to just become GP's, as there will always be a demand and the training required is not really as intensive as a FRACP or FRACS.

 

[KFunk]

But as fully fledged teaching hospitals?

I'm not entirely sure what full-fledged means. Certainly they don't engage in teaching to the extent of the main UNSW teaching hospitals in which you can expect to find a dedicated clinical school and a student on every ward, but their level of teaching and university invovlement (associate academics, researchers, and so on) perhaps exceeds that of certain public teaching sites in HIV, sexual health, drug and alcohol, etc. The private institution I have in mind has a plaque in the main foyer indicating that it is a teaching site/hospital for UNSW medicine.

 

[Bacilli]

I'm impressed, another medical school on the horizon. Gessus christ mang that's fkd.... everyone will have a medical degree. How about a comparison to the number of med schools in the US compared to Aus... no doubt we're getting there but yet our population isn't even 1/3 of the US... talk about overkill due to an inability to manage things correctly.... I love how our health system has a ribbon tied around it yet the guts is just filth and chaos...

 

[ultraman8]

UWS is crap apart from their medicine course which was copied from Melbourne. I think UWS is a crap uni no offence and the only reason they got some smart students now is because of the demand for medicine. I would rather do med sci at UNSW than adv sci at UWS because UWS has crap resources, ranked 100000? in world university rankings?, that being said you would be advantaged for attending a dumb uni if you're smart. Reaping in the marks.

And yes med will eventually turn into those lousy degrees with crap pay in the future as the flood of doctors into the system reach those of our US counterpart. GP's here make 300k a year US GP's average 150k. OH Dear looks like the money with being a doctor is being blown away. I would preferably start a business.

 

[Bananaberry]

^ lol ok, what resourses would be these crap ones? I didnt even know there were 100,000 unis in the world lol

 

[Bacilli]

Wow what a complete screw up. Tapping away at his keyboard saying this is shit, that is shit... uws is shit...

UWS I'll have you know can provide a better quality education than any other university in the state of New South Wales, I'm dead serious. You need to research the lecturers employed by UWS, particularly the biology professors... their accomplishments out-weigh those achieved by most including 1 if I remember correctly discovered a new method to synthesis Gooney Water on a budget, and from what I've heard it's quite strong compared to the traditional aboriginal method... In all seriousness, it's a good university with excellent facilities and I don't doubt one receives a quality education no matter what the course.

 

[whoisthis]

Wow what a complete screw up. Tapping away at his keyboard saying this is shit, that is shit... uws is shit...

UWS I'll have you know can provide a better quality education than any other university in the state of New South Wales, I'm dead serious. You need to research the lecturers employed by UWS, particularly the biology professors... their accomplishments out-weigh those achieved by most including 1 if I remember correctly discovered a new method to synthesis Gooney Water on a budget, and from what I've heard it's quite strong compared to the traditional aboriginal method... In all seriousness, it's a good university with excellent facilities and I don't doubt one receives a quality education no matter what the course.

yay let's make a whole array of uncited data points to lead us into the conclusion of UWS being the best university in NSW