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Libertarian politics and gun control (1 Viewer)

banco55

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

Damage Inc. said:
You wouldn't pull a gun out. You'd be shit scared. So would I. Anyway, if you tried to pull a gun out I think he'd blow a hole through your head.

And I think it'd be a sad day if Australia turned out like that.
Plenty of americans manage to get up the nerve to confront burglars etc. with a gun. For that matter I don't think the burglar exactly has a surge of courage when he hears a shotgun being racked back. If your an old person living alone a gun is your only viable protection. Cops usually arrive after a crime has occured. It would have been nice to have a gun when the lebanese came in convoys to smash up the cars. The cops did a brilliant job preventing that one.
 

withoutaface

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

transcendent said:
With the gun thing. If I don't see it I wont need it. If however, guns were freely avaliable I may find it curious to try one. So I go into a gun store, buy one cause they are avaliable. Within a month I would have 10 murders under my name. Why? Cause they are avaliable. I mean, after one murder why stop at just the one? I'm going to jail anyways. However with the current system it's really hard to find guns. You don't see stores for them, you don't see ads for them, they are non-existant to the general public. BUT if guns are more prevalent, people will take an interest in them, people get curious. People get scared and buy them and soon there'll be guns anywhere and psychos like me will have access to them. So please, for the sake of everyone else, keep the guns off the market.
"when the state of florida adapted this, they also tracked how many of the people with these permits used them in crimes....over a period of a few years, it was no more than a handful....i think less than 10."
 

nwatts

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

Off the gun topic.. I like the LDP's tax theory. Very simple, but could be very effective.
 

Raginsheep

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

banco55 said:
Plenty of americans manage to get up the nerve to confront burglars etc. with a gun. For that matter I don't think the burglar exactly has a surge of courage when he hears a shotgun being racked back. If your an old person living alone a gun is your only viable protection. Cops usually arrive after a crime has occured. It would have been nice to have a gun when the lebanese came in convoys to smash up the cars. The cops did a brilliant job preventing that one.
If I was the burglar, I'd just shoot the guy 1st given the prevalence of guns in such a community.
 

withoutaface

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

Raginsheep said:
If I was the burglar, I'd just shoot the guy 1st given the prevalence of guns in such a community.
What if you miss? What if you hit them somewhere non fatal?

Then you're fucked.
 

davin

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

transcendent said:
With the gun thing. If I don't see it I wont need it. If however, guns were freely avaliable I may find it curious to try one. So I go into a gun store, buy one cause they are avaliable. Within a month I would have 10 murders under my name. Why? Cause they are avaliable. I mean, after one murder why stop at just the one? I'm going to jail anyways. However with the current system it's really hard to find guns. You don't see stores for them, you don't see ads for them, they are non-existant to the general public. BUT if guns are more prevalent, people will take an interest in them, people get curious. People get scared and buy them and soon there'll be guns anywhere and psychos like me will have access to them. So please, for the sake of everyone else, keep the guns off the market.
i agree, i mean, by not having it legal, no one has access to it. i mean, just look at how theres no issue with any illegal drugs.


australia, does have one big advantage over the u.s., though, in that, like i said before, the u.s. has two very large borders...its a lot harder to control things coming in and out so bans can be more successful. The thing is, though.....well, lets take a match-up....say, a woman, light build, vs a male robber, probably sturdy build. if both are unarmed, who wins? most often, the larger male.
its possible that the male could have a gun...he still has advantage.
however, if the woman has a gun, and is trained to use it, she can't defend herself.

criminals aren't idiots...they don't mess with people who might have guns...and i've heard reports where even mentioning that someone is carrying a gun has gotten would-be robbers to leave.
the idea is....a criminal doesn't want to get shot. if they try to attack someone who has a gun, the criminal will run.


Plenty of americans manage to get up the nerve to confront burglars etc. with a gun. For that matter I don't think the burglar exactly has a surge of courage when he hears a shotgun being racked back. If your an old person living alone a gun is your only viable protection. Cops usually arrive after a crime has occured.
aside from mentioning the story earlier about direct use of a gun for defense, yeah, cops are very slow.
I've had issues where we've tried calling Los Angeles police and its taken cases of over an hour for them to show up.


and regarding my statement with the state of Florida...found more info on that, unfortunitly its a site reporting it rather than orginial source
http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm
221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms.
so, i'm off by 8. my bad.
 

davin

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

Raginsheep said:
If I was the burglar, I'd just shoot the guy 1st given the prevalence of guns in such a community.
if someone else has a gun, they tend to get out of there. as they're not out seeeking someone to murder, generally, and they don't want to risk getting shot
 

Raginsheep

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

Yes but if he has a gun and is going to use it, then might as well not die wondering.

I guess I would just perfer not to see weapons so readily avaliable in the general public.
 

davin

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

well, you're talking an ideal situation, which ignores that they do have practical purposes.....hunting, for example, or protection from wild animals, even before you factor in either recreational use or self-defense from criminals.

and....does it count as ironic that one of the supporters of gun control has an avatar with a sheep with guns?
 

banco55

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

Damage Inc. said:
Exactly. Instead of saving lives, guns would lead to greater bloodshed. Instead of the robber simply threatening the victim (guns illegal), the robber might just decide to pump some lead into the victim (guns legal) in the off chance he may possess a gun.
I'd still like the option of having a weapon at home for self protection. By the way all the evidence from the US indicates that areas with high gun ownership and liberal laws on self defence have fewer burglaries. In some US states they have so called "make my day laws" which basically means if someone breaks into your home you can use lethal force against them. The burglar doesn't have to be armed for it to be legal. The whole idea is to make burglary a very hazardous profession.
 
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Not-That-Bright

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Re: RU486 will make us muslim

I don't think using USA is the perfect example at all because there are alot of social factors that increase violence in america... for example; inequality of wealth. I don't think banning guns would affect this much at all.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Well true, but even without the 'gun culture' (I agree with michael moore here, looking at the examples of japan etc) I believe the crime would continue because it has alot more to do with inequality.
 

davin

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ahh...yes, Bowling for Columbine. Michael Moore complains about guns, then hires ARMED body guards. freaking hypocrite.

and yeah, there is a LOT of issues that lead to violence....a ton of it, for example, is racial issues. Example: there's been rioting breaking out between blacks and hispanics in the prisons in Los Angeles for a bit over a week now.

Washington D.C. is listed here: http://www.morganquitno.com/cit01pop.htm
it was given the title of 10th most dangerous city to live in, even though it has gun control fully.

there are a lot of issues in america that lead to greater violence, unfortunitly....the biggest being areas of poverty, the second being racial issues.
 

davin

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I think there should still be considerable restrictions on their availability; based on age, criminal records, mental health and the like.
all of those are parts of gun laws in the u.s., and i've not heard any of them questioned. You have to be 18 to get a rifle or such, and 21 for a handgun, i believe, at least in california. you can't own or possess a gun if you're convicted felon, and there is some sort of mental health thing, i think.
 

davin

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i'm not sure how much of a loophole there is, really. mostly cuz everything i find has some level of spin, and tends to not give some straight statistics
 

davin

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i'm aware of the claim against them, just that its tough to get the actual statistics relating to it...most sources have a bias one way or the other, so that has to be considered

and i don't think they're main issue...least, i don't hear them come up much. bigger issue about this is san fransisco banning guns recently.
 

Not-That-Bright

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I agree with Schroedinger and with davin (the only reason I agreed with michael moore in my post was because I do think his claim that it's not a 'culture of violence' at all actually does ring true).
 

davin

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oh, michael moore is just dangerous to use as a source ever. he sort of went insane and lost all credibility at this point
 

davin

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oh, he fabricates a fair amount of stuff. granted, bowling for columbine made some points, but on the same note, theres also stuff in there thats just innaccurate and misleading in there.
with bowling for columbine, for example...you can't go into a bank and get a gun the way he did.
 

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