Liberal or Labor? (or other) (2 Viewers)

[ZabZu]

Social democracy doesnt exsist! Sociaism is the beginning of communism and when someone stupid e.g Kim Beasley, Mark Latham, Paul Keating, gets in power for long enough, they will lead in that direction.

GO THE MARIJUANA PARTY!

A Social Market economy embraces the market while having safeguards or protections for people who are vulnerable. This system is not socialism and its the system that the ALP should promote.

 

[gnrlies]

If you read what i said properly you would realise i wasnt refering to foreign policy or culture or anything like that.

Look at the US today. The minimum wage is US$5, university degrees are very very expensive, health costs are tremendous, theres a huge gap between the rich and the poor. 10 years ago health and education in Australia is much cheaper than it is today. The costs of these services in this country is getting closer to those in the US.

Apologies for misreading

We are still very different from america. The american system is very harsh. Perhaps too harsh considering the many divisions within the country.

The american minimum wage and australian minimum wage have no basis to be compared. Australias minimum wage is a lot better than the US. There is also no call for this to change by the liberal party.

People far too often compare us to america when looking at these things. Realistically thats not a fair thing to do. We are very different to america. We are better served being compared to England or a more similar country who has successfully implemented similar laws.

 

[Gangels]

Apologies for misreading

We are still very different from america. The american system is very harsh. Perhaps too harsh considering the many divisions within the country.

The american minimum wage and australian minimum wage have no basis to be compared. Australias minimum wage is a lot better than the US. There is also no call for this to change by the liberal party.

People far too often compare us to america when looking at these things. Realistically thats not a fair thing to do. We are very different to america. We are better served being compared to England or a more similar country who has successfully implemented similar laws.

Damn right. im sick of everyone comparing us to america and saying that Liberal is trying to make us more like them. Its bullshit. Besides the fact that because the aussie dollar is worth less in america, we cant really be similar can we. Smart arse answer

 

[Iron]

Damn right. im sick of everyone comparing us to america and saying that Liberal is trying to make us more like them. Its bullshit. Besides the fact that because the aussie dollar is worth less in america, we cant really be similar can we. Smart arse answer

Reminds me of Firth explaining our parties to Americans
"Our Liberal party is like your Republican party, <cut to republican conference, with hideous cheesy banners, cheering and anthem> and our Labor party is like your... <same cut> Republican party."

I'm bored with both sides now. Im just voting for whoever gives me and my values the better deal at the time.
Government and the public service has shrunk too much to make the differences it once could. Id rather put my energy into the global bodies who really call the shots, and who arent accountable to this tyranny some call "the people".

 

[ZabZu]

The american minimum wage and australian minimum wage have no basis to be compared. Australias minimum wage is a lot better than the US. There is also no call for this to change by the liberal party.

True. But as part of the Industrial Relations reforms the government replaced the independent body that sets the minimum wage. They replaced it with people who are close to big-business. It wont surprise me if we see the minimum wage drop.

 

[ihavenothing]

I am a big fan of skilled migration, but definately not over increasing our birth rate.

Im not one of those isolationist old fashion people who believe that australia should only be for white anglo saxons etc etc, but we want to strenthen ourselves as a country.

Migration does not do this. Migration can also cause a lot of social issues if not managed properly.

Not to mention the fact that skilled migration is not always easy. Whilst lots of people want to come to australia, they are not always skilled. Even if they do have a degree (as do many people in say asia), they may not necessarily suit the australian jobs market.

I agree that immigration does have several social problems if the immigrants are not able to integrate easily or pose a threat to national security. Thats why I'm in favour of the government enticing immigrants from areas such as Eastern Europe and South America (areas that have similar jobs and economies which are have not seen a wide enough flow of immigration yet from these countries), in order to prevent potential ethnic-based tensions that may get worse if more people are being recruited from Islamic countries. I'm not being racist, it is just that there would be less backlash.

 

[alexvincent]

How are we americanised?

Besides these economic factors and the minimum wage etc, the poison of American culture can be seen in our arrogant and nationalistic foreign policy. Some Western National leaders think they have the God-given right to invade a country and expect them to not get the shits. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying terrorism. But it's so funny isn't it? Bush, Blair and Howard seem so shocked after invasion. They invade whilst saying, "Here's democracy. You better take it!" *Waves fist*

Moreover, one of South African cricket commentators was in Australia in the summer and he said, "The difference between RSA and AUS is that in RSA we know our neighbours."

Such an insightful point don't you think? All these rotting corpses turning up here and there with neighbours clueless. American culture has infiltrated Australia in the form of indifference. Our compassion for our fellow Australians has diminished. Driving through the suburbs we see huge housing estates fenced off. No sense of community at all. Materialism, individualism and elitism all the way. It's all becoming too much like Darwin's Theory.

Australia might as well be a second-hand US.

 

[ihavenothing]

I'd compare Australia more to Canada, which I would believe to be more flattering.

 

[YBK]

Apologies for misreading

We are still very different from america. The american system is very harsh. Perhaps too harsh considering the many divisions within the country.

The american minimum wage and australian minimum wage have no basis to be compared. Australias minimum wage is a lot better than the US. There is also no call for this to change by the liberal party.

People far too often compare us to america when looking at these things. Realistically thats not a fair thing to do. We are very different to america. We are better served being compared to England or a more similar country who has successfully implemented similar laws.

The point is that we are on the way to becoming as America.

Obviously there are differences still, but that doesn't mean that we haven't been getting more similar to them lately.

 

[crazyhomo]

How are we americanised?

Besides these economic factors and the minimum wage etc, the poison of American culture can be seen in our arrogant and nationalistic foreign policy. Some Western National leaders think they have the God-given right to invade a country and expect them to not get the shits. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying terrorism. But it's so funny isn't it? Bush, Blair and Howard seem so shocked after invasion. They invade whilst saying, "Here's democracy. You better take it!" *Waves fist*

yep, america is the only country ever to have invaded another country, to refuse illegal immigration and to promote nationalism. that is such an american thing to do

 

[alexvincent]

I never said that invasion was uniquely American. But the arrogant way in which this coalition has done so has led to Australia (amongst others) becoming a larger terrorist target.

There is a difference between nationalism and what I said "arrogant nationalistic foreign policy". They're totally different. In fact I think that nationalism isn't promoted enough in Australia.

A person can be an illegal immigrant but can have a legal right to seek refuge in a country at the same time. And to lock people up in detention centres for months on end disgusts me.

 

[crazyhomo]

I never said that invasion was uniquely American. But the arrogant way in which this coalition has done so has led to Australia (amongst others) becoming a larger terrorist target.

There is a difference between nationalism and what I said "arrogant nationalistic foreign policy". They're totally different. In fact I think that nationalism isn't promoted enough in Australia.

A person can be an illegal immigrant but can have a legal right to seek refuge in a country at the same time. And to lock people up in detention centres for months on end disgusts me.

so...ummm...wtf are you talking about and why do i care?

 

[Gangels]

The point is that we are on the way to becoming as America.

Obviously there are differences still, but that doesn't mean that we haven't been getting more similar to them lately.

WOW! Similarities. Now that means were turning into america for sure. We have similarities to almost every country, even more. I wonder why we attack america for everything when other countries have so much more to answer for, like France, Japan, Russia and mostly, England. What America have done and invaded has been strictly for safety of themselves and others and you can say they just want oil, or land, but wheres your proof? A news reporter, thats your proof?

 

[YBK]

WOW! Similarities. Now that means were turning into america for sure. We have similarities to almost every country, even more. I wonder why we attack america for everything when other countries have so much more to answer for, like France, Japan, Russia and mostly, England. What America have done and invaded has been strictly for safety of themselves and others and you can say they just want oil, or land, but wheres your proof? A news reporter, thats your proof?

Time will be my proof.

 

[The Brucemaster]

Well its quite possible that its because Islamic "imperialism" is not the subject of this thread. If you wish to discuss such matters how about creating another thread for it. In fact, i might go and do just that.

 

[ihavenothing]

LOAL good one.

Are you part of the Bring Back Saddam croud?

Get over yourself.

Why do you hypocrites never complain about Muslim and Arab Imperialism?

What are arabs doing in Palestine? or Iraq and Iran for that matter.

These are lands that never belonged to them until they invaded and they continue to control them with an iron fist and bloodshed.

Why aren't you protesting against Islam?

It isn't a problem as yet, but you don't need to be paranoid, in the end democracy will always override religious law.

 

[leetom]

This Liberal Government has proved its raging incompetence once again. Our first casualty in Iraq, just one, and this government can't even bring the man home. Instead we've got some dead bloody Bosnian. How dare they entrust the transportation of our slain countrymen to a rag-tag bunch of bumbling merchants. When our men are killed serving Australia they deserve to be returned to their homeland in the care of their comrades.

This is a massive, inexcusable blunder and is symbolic of a government mired in scandal.

 

[withoutaface]

I think the guy deserves the Darwin award for cleaning his gun while the magazine was still inside, personally.

 

[leetom]

I think the guy deserves the Darwin award for cleaning his gun while the magazine was still inside, personally.

Private Kovco died in Baghdad on Friday when he was accidentally shot with his Browning 9mm pistol. Exactly how that happened hasn't been explained and a defence inquiry is now under way.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=97688

 

[gnrlies]

True. But as part of the Industrial Relations reforms the government replaced the independent body that sets the minimum wage. They replaced it with people who are close to big-business. It wont surprise me if we see the minimum wage drop.

See this is where you are completely missing the point.

The whole reason behind these IR reforms, is as an effective solution to a problem which came to attention over 25 years ago. The explosion in real wages in the late 70's and 80's caused a recession. The recession was completely unnecessary. If our labour maket had the flexibility as present in work choices, the recession would have either been totally avoidable, or at least could have had its devastation reduced.

The various responses from labor such as the accord, and working nation reforms didn't really tackle the heart of the problem.

The Fair Pay commission as set up in workchoices is the permanant solution to the problem of un sustainable real wage growth. This is why it is unfair to compare australia to america. America has a minimum wage which comes from a neo classical way of economic thinking (their system has long term benefits, howevor short term costs).

Australia's fair pay comission is an independant body which can adjust wages in the interests of employees and the economy. So on one hand it is going to make sure that employees get paid a decent wage, but then it isn't going to do this at the expense of massive unemployment, or the risk of a recession.

Its designed to remove the rigidities in the labour market in order to prevent even bigger problems. They arent trying to rob the poor and give to the rich like all these naysayers keep suggesting.