Learner License Age to 17??? (2 Viewers)

[Teclis]

Having licensed drivers teach kids how to drive works really well IMO. In Europe, where every lesson has to be with an instructor, you're looking at several grand for a licence. Granted, the drivers are better, but it puts driving out of reach of a lot of young people.

People will stop speeding when the RTA sets respectable speed limits. If you set limits (such as 80/90 on freeways) which are designed for the lowest common denominator (the shitty drivers) you infuriate anyone who can actually drive. Once faced with a ridiculously low speed limit somewhere, they stop respecting all the speed limits.

And its statistically true that if you wait a few years you have less chance of an accident. I think we should just expect accidents to happen - the deaths can easily be justified by the benefits of freedom had by p platers all over the country.

You are a complete fucking Moron...

The speed limits that are set are there NOT for the lowest common denominator, but because that is the HIGHEST safe speed that you should be driving... you fucking idiot... It's not a "oh lets make this section of road 80 because we feel like it"...

Do you realise how EASY it is to lose control at 110hm/h? No I don't think you do... and every km/h you add is a much larger amount of experience you need to control the car safely if something goes wrong.

I'm not saying all lessons should be with Instructors. I'm saying that the RTA and their advertising campaigns should be much MUCH harder on fully licenced drivers, not bring in more restrictions of P-platers... and I'm a full licenced driver.

Speeding and drink Driving fines should get exponentially larger the more you do them... so the 4th time you get a speeding fine it's 4 times larger, because you still haven't got the message. When speeding and drink driving and owning cars that are too powerful for your level of maturity and driving skill become culturally UNacceptable, THAT is when we will have safer roads... Being more and more harsh with the younger drivers will only work on those who were already going to be safe drivers.

 

[Azamakumar]

bored as shit so im going to tear into you

You are a complete fucking Moron...

No, you are.

The speed limits that are set are there NOT for the lowest common denominator, but because that is the HIGHEST safe speed that you should be driving... you fucking idiot... It's not a "oh lets make this section of road 80 because we feel like it"...

They're making it so that it caters to everyones ability, not 'because they feel like it. They're chosen for a reason, hence the term 'lowest common denominator'.

Do you realise how EASY it is to lose control at 110hm/h? No I don't think you do

Oh how much experience have you had

... and every km/h you add is a much larger amount of experience you need to control the car safely if something goes wrong.

Source? Just because you're a downer and wouldn't think to countersteer etc doesn't mean everyone else won't.

I'm not saying all lessons should be with Instructors. I'm saying that the RTA and their advertising campaigns should be much MUCH harder on fully licenced drivers, not bring in more restrictions of P-platers... and I'm a full licenced driver.

The idea is that bad habits get stamped out when you start driving, something that having instructors would help.

Speeding and drink Driving fines should get exponentially larger the more you do them... so the 4th time you get a speeding fine it's 4 times larger

thats linear growth, not exponential

, because you still haven't got the message. When speeding and drink driving and owning cars that are too powerful for your level of maturity and driving skill become culturally UNacceptable, THAT is when we will have safer roads...

hey hey, they already are! drink driving is illegal, owning moderately powered cars illegal for p platers, really powerful cars banned. Speeding offences potentially carry harsher penalities than assault. Still think they're acceptable? So why aren't our roads 'safe'?

Being more and more harsh with the younger drivers will only work on those who were already going to be safe drivers.

If they're going to be safe drivers how will being any more or less harsh affect them?

Douchebag. Go find a tree to drive into.

 

[Teclis]

'.Oh how much experience have you had

Well... I have lost control at 110 km/h... I was on the freeway between Sydney and Newcastle and this little shit red P-plater in a barina was going at like 130 and cut in front of me and I went to change into the right hand lane because he slowed right down after getting in front of me, and at the last second I saw the driver who had pulled into my blindspot... and a little touch of the steering too far and the car started to slide. Pretty much If I wasn't driving my Subaru and hadn't done a lot of off roading driving going to work and learnt to control a sliding car (on gravel roads) I would've been dead or seriously injured.

The idea is that bad habits get stamped out when you start driving, something that having instructors would help.

But they don't, that's the problem...

thats linear growth, not exponential

..... oooooops... 1:30am is not good for my argumentative skills

hey hey, they already are! drink driving is illegal, owning moderately powered cars illegal for p platers, really powerful cars banned.

Can I ask what you consider moderately powered and really powerful?

So the powerful cars I've driven include:
- SS Commodore
- Calais V
- Turbocharged WRX
- Run of the mill WRX
- Toyota Aurion Prodigy
- Toyota Aurion GTX outfitted as a drifting car (my Uncle may or may not be inordinately rich with a large Bitumen area on the farm he owns.

The least powerful of those cars, the run of the mill WRX and the Aurion Prodigy are easily powerful enough for any road conditions. I would even say the power to weight ratio in the Aurion is bordering on too much really. You do NOT need that kind of power in an engine for ANY reason.

 

[Azamakumar]

Well... I have lost control at 110 km/h... I was on the freeway between Sydney and Newcastle and this little shit red P-plater in a barina was going at like 130 and cut in front of me and I went to change into the right hand lane because he slowed right down after getting in front of me, and at the last second I saw the driver who had pulled into my blindspot... and a little touch of the steering too far and the car started to slide. Pretty much If I wasn't driving my Subaru and hadn't done a lot of off roading driving going to work and learnt to control a sliding car (on gravel roads) I would've been dead or seriously injured.

Head check would've saved you here. Poor driving habit.

But they don't, that's the problem...

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Can I ask what you consider moderately powered and really powerful?

generic japanese sports car, ferrari enzo

So the powerful cars I've driven include:
- SS Commodore
- Calais V
- Turbocharged WRX
- Run of the mill WRX (wrxs are turbocharged, so what the fuck is the difference between this and the last?)
- Toyota Aurion Prodigy
- Toyota Aurion GTX outfitted as a drifting car (my Uncle may or may not be inordinately rich with a large Bitumen area on the farm he owns.

The least powerful of those cars, the run of the mill WRX and the Aurion Prodigy are easily powerful enough for any road conditions. I would even say the power to weight ratio in the Aurion is bordering on too much really. You do NOT need that kind of power in an engine for ANY reason.

What about tradies with massive loads in their cars? People that tow? Begs the question of why you were in such overpowered cars in the first place?

 

[aussie-boy]

way to change my quotes to riets shithead

source for that? do you have any fucking clue how many variables you'd have to control to even make a study like that credible? and what the fuck do those statistics mean, they test one person and all of a sudden they represent the entire population? Theres a reason for p plate restrictions (though a few contradict this idea), they're meant to make controlling a car easier and safer for inexperienced drivers such as learners and p platers.

And as for banning cars, that wouldn't be the only way to do it, you narrow minded idiot. If you dropped every roads speed limit to 10km/h where the stopping distance was 1m I'm fairly sure there wouldn't be a single fatality. But to say that increasing all speed limits to save 2 minutes on the way home would justify the lost of almost 1500 lives?

Source: http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/1115/2/88736.0001.001.pdf

And the statistics were compiled from the official records of every single young driver in the state of Michigan. Don't try and fucking undermine the statistics I provide. You're absolutely wrong, ok?

Yeah, let's lower the speed limit on the F3 to 10kph!!! Im sure every driver will back you 100% Great idea, dickhead.

 

[aussie-boy]

You are a complete fucking Moron...

The speed limits that are set are there NOT for the lowest common denominator, but because that is the HIGHEST safe speed that you should be driving... you fucking idiot... It's not a "oh lets make this section of road 80 because we feel like it"...

Mate, read my second post.

The design speed of a road is the highest safe speed. 110 is not the design speed; you're wrong.

Do you realise how EASY it is to lose control at 110hm/h? No I don't think you do... and every km/h you add is a much larger amount of experience you need to control the car safely if something goes wrong.

Do you realise how EASY it is to lose control at 100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50???
There's no safe speed for cars. You have to accept that there is a point at which benefits from driving > costs from deaths and injuries incurred while driving.

I'm not saying all lessons should be with Instructors. I'm saying that the RTA and their advertising campaigns should be much MUCH harder on fully licenced drivers, not bring in more restrictions of P-platers... and I'm a full licenced driver.

Why? The road toll is at record lows.

Speeding and drink Driving fines should get exponentially larger the more you do them... so the 4th time you get a speeding fine it's 4 times larger, because you still haven't got the message. When speeding and drink driving and owning cars that are too powerful for your level of maturity and driving skill become culturally UNacceptable, THAT is when we will have safer roads... Being more and more harsh with the younger drivers will only work on those who were already going to be safe drivers.

Drink driving, I agree with.
Speeding, not so much.

I define speeding as going faster than the conditions would suggest.
Speeding from the RTA's POV is at a level that infuriates drivers and is an excellent money maker (consider the 50kph on Moore Park road or the 90kph on the F3)

 

[Azamakumar]

Source: http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/1115/2/88736.0001.001.pdf

And the statistics were compiled from the official records of every single young driver in the state of Michigan. Don't try and fucking undermine the statistics I provide. You're absolutely wrong, ok?

Yeah, let's lower the speed limit on the F3 to 10kph!!! Im sure every driver will back you 100% Great idea, dickhead.

In this study it was found that, between the ages of 15 and
55, those drivers with one year of experience tended to have higher crash rates than same
age drivers with two or three years of experience when at-fault crashes were considered.

So here is your study, supporting my argument. lol.

And fuck, I was illustrating a fucking point with that one. You'd be hard pressed to kill someone with a vehicle, pedestrian or passenger, when it's only moving at 10km/h.




by the way, heaps credible research here

this analysis does not take into account any driving experience that may have accrued from driving with a learner's permit. I also assume that the licensed drivers are actually driving, which will not be true in all cases. Finally, numerous studies have shown that people can learn tasks and procedures through observation (see, e.g., Bandura, 1977). Therefore, art of a person's experience with driving is probably based simply upon the amount of time they spend traveling as a passenger in a vehicle. The importance and relationship of these effects to crash likelihood have not been studied and consequently are not controlled for in this study.

 

[aussie-boy]

So here is your study, supporting my argument. lol.

And fuck, I was illustrating a fucking point with that one. You'd be hard pressed to kill someone with a vehicle, pedestrian or passenger, when it's only moving at 10km/h.

Of course I accept that experience is incredibly important in determining the risk of crashing.

But I'm saying that age is also important as an independent variable, which you denied in previous posts.

The study clearly supports the notion that raising the age to 17 will prevent more deaths; that's all i wanted to point out.

I don't even think that such a raise is a good idea, for fuck's sake.

I know you were illustrating a point, and I think its a dumb point, because as I said before, today's society is quite happy with killing X people to make it home Y minutes earlier every day.

 

[staticsiscool]

Well... I have lost control at 110 km/h... I was on the freeway between Sydney and Newcastle and this little shit red P-plater in a barina was going at like 130 and cut in front of me and I went to change into the right hand lane because he slowed right down after getting in front of me, and at the last second I saw the driver who had pulled into my blindspot... and a little touch of the steering too far and the car started to slide. Pretty much If I wasn't driving my Subaru and hadn't done a lot of off roading driving going to work and learnt to control a sliding car (on gravel roads) I would've been dead or seriously injured.



But they don't, that's the problem...



..... oooooops... 1:30am is not good for my argumentative skills



Can I ask what you consider moderately powered and really powerful?

So the powerful cars I've driven include:
- SS Commodore
- Calais V
- Turbocharged WRX
- Run of the mill WRX
- Toyota Aurion Prodigy
- Toyota Aurion GTX outfitted as a drifting car (my Uncle may or may not be inordinately rich with a large Bitumen area on the farm he owns.

The least powerful of those cars, the run of the mill WRX and the Aurion Prodigy are easily powerful enough for any road conditions. I would even say the power to weight ratio in the Aurion is bordering on too much really. You do NOT need that kind of power in an engine for ANY reason.

ahahah

please tell me what the difference is between a TURBOCRHAGED WRX AND A RUN OF THE MILL WRX?

sounds like springfield has a discipline problem

 

[Teclis]

ahahah

please tell me what the difference is between a TURBOCRHAGED WRX AND A RUN OF THE MILL WRX?

sounds like springfield has a discipline problem

That's a good point there...

the Run of the mill IS the turbocharged... whoops...

Well this one wasn't turbocharged, and was still a WRX, I dunno why though...

 

[Riet]

Why a WRX wasn't turbocharged? Because you're full of shit.

 

[staticsiscool]

maybe it was just a normal impreza rs and not infact a wrx

 

[Riet]

You are a complete fucking Moron...

The speed limits that are set are there NOT for the lowest common denominator, but because that is the HIGHEST safe speed that you should be driving... you fucking idiot... It's not a "oh lets make this section of road 80 because we feel like it"...

Umm actually that is exactly what happens, statisiscool is a road engineer. Design speeds are 130 for most highways and 120 or more for many country roads. On the flip side many two-lane 100 km/h roads are quite dangerous at those speeds. The speed limits are set arbitrarily by the RTA and don't reflect reality at all. Clevland street is 3 lanes each way and 50 km/h for fucks sake.

Edit: The really funny thing is that none of your "high-powered cars" have a significantly higher power to weight ratio than my Civic.

 

[Teclis]

Head check would've saved you here. Poor driving habit

That's what I'm saying I did, but this guy had driven into it from the time I took my head check to the time I looked back to the road.

about tradies with massive loads in their cars? People that tow?

Are you telling me that the majority of people who drive V8 Commodores drive them to tow things and that everyone who drives an XR8 ute is a trady?

The towing capacity on something like a Subaru Forester is enough to towe huge caravans and large trailer sailer boats... and I've done both as that is what I drive.

On the occasions that certain tradies need inordinately heavy loads in the back of their utes (builders, landscapers... whatever), then they can get working exceptions.

Begs the question of why you were in such overpowered cars in the first place?

The SS Commodore and th Calais V have been owned by my Uncle, as has the Aurion GTX and the turbocharged WRX.

The Aurion Prodigy is my mothers car and the WRX was a mates car that I drove from Sydney down South for him because he couldn't find the time

 

[staticsiscool]

That's what I'm saying I did, but this guy had driven into it from the time I took my head check to the time I looked back to the road.




Are you telling me that the majority of people who drive V8 Commodores drive them to tow things and that everyone who drives an XR8 ute is a trady?

The towing capacity on something like a Subaru Forester is enough to towe huge caravans and large trailer sailer boats... and I've done both as that is what I drive.

On the occasions that certain tradies need inordinately heavy loads in the back of their utes (builders, landscapers... whatever), then they can get working exceptions.




The SS Commodore and th Calais V have been owned by my Uncle, as has the Aurion GTX and the turbocharged WRX.

The Aurion Prodigy is my mothers car and the WRX was a mates car that I drove from Sydney down South for him because he couldn't find the time

impreza rs

 

[Riet]

ALL WRXs ARE TURBOCHARGED YOU FUCKING CUNT. Any car can tow any other car but without torque its going to be fucking slow as shit isn't it you mong.

 

[quik.]

That's what I'm saying I did, but this guy had driven into it from the time I took my head check to the time I looked back to the road.

You have mirrors to

You use those mirrors to judge how fast that vehicle behind you is approaching

You don't just do a headcheck and go 'LOL THE SPACE IS FREE'

Mirror, headcheck, indicate, mirror, headcheck

Takes all of fucking 5 seconds, not even. If you hadn't been an impatient douche and just waited for the P plater in front of you to pull off you could have avoided the whole situation in the first place

 

[staticsiscool]

once i drove a hilux, therefore it was a TRD hilux with a supercharger

this is what you are saying

 

[Riet]

I've driven a Fiat 500 therefore I've driven a 430 Scuderia

 

[staticsiscool]

iv driven a ford once therefore i'v piloted an f-15 eagle