Law Career Questions Needing Answers! (1 Viewer)

[muls01]

Hi there,

I have always had a strong passion for law, however, unlike most, not entirely due to the associated prestige and income. I recently completed my hsc and am expecting an atar of around 88-93 (+5 points for EAS). A few questions I had though:

1) I understand from reading previous posts that prestige (university choice) does matter, but only to an extent. If I was to study law at either UoW (Wollongong), or Macquarie uni, and hypothetically achieved at the top of my class, surely attending such a university would not jeopardise job prospects?

2) After just finishing my hsc, one cannot also help but wonder how much time studying (outside of classes) would such a course entail? Would it be as chaotic as the study schedule of a HSC student aiming to excel? What I'm asking is, although obviously a difficult and time consuming degree, is there enough time to allocate work for a part time job (say 2-3 shifts per week) and going out once a week and gym [is there time for life also?].

3) In regards to a dual degree, if I am 100% certain that I want to work in law, would there be any benefits in doing a Bachelor of Law/Commerce over say Bachelor of Law/Psychology or Bachelor of Law/Journalism?

4) After completing the 5 year course, what other areas are there to work (or specialise in), apart from criminal law and family law? Which specialisations work harder then others or entail a higher income?

5) There has been much debate regarding salary and lawyers. I was wondering what the average income would be for a lawyer in a top tier firm both 1st year and several years later down the track. Also, what are the pay/conditions like for working with a government org such as legal aid? [thought it might be an idea for a few years to gain experience]

Not expecting one person to have all the answers, but if anyone feels they can contribute, would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[enoilgam]

1) It does have some impact in some cases, although most employers are interested in marks, work-experience, extra-cirriculars and personality. A relative of mine works for a big 6 firm and they are very much focused on the last two traits, because that is what they see as being best for their firm's culture. Obviously, that is only one example, but I thought it would be good to add.

2) If you want D's and HD's in law you are going to have to work. The workload in law is very high and the degree is very tought, especially if you want marks at that level. However, as with study in the HSC, you can have a life and it is important to maintaining a balance.

3) The secondary degree can help you if you want to specialise in something. Commerce is the most common because it has a high cross-over with law.

4) There are plenty of areas beyond family and criminal law. You can be a general lawyer, wills and probate, commercial law, tax law, environmental law, etc.

5) I dont know too much about salaries at a top tier firm, but the conditions are tough. When you start out at a top tier firm you will be working hard and long hours - I have heard many of the horror stories from my relative about this. This shouldnt be a turn-off, but if you want to be a lawyer there and become an associate or partner, you need to work hard.

Someone with a bit more knowledge could probably add more to that - I just gave a broad overview.

 

[chewy123]

1) Don't think anyone can give you a useful answer. All things equal, if there are 2 students who are at the top of their classes but one is from usyd and the other from UoW... then you know what would happen. But this is useless talk since you can never calculate things this way. Your goal should always be to work hard regardless of which uni you ended up in.

2) All course outlines suggests 10 hours per course (including class time) and discourage working more than 1 full day per week. Following this suggestion should AT LEAST get you a credit plus.

 

[Newbie]

1) Don't think anyone can give you a useful answer. All things equal, if there are 2 students who are at the top of their classes but one is from usyd and the other from UoW... then you know what would happen.

This is exactly what I've been saying for a long time.
lots of UWS guys who "have personality and extracurriculars" expecting they have a shot because they expect all UNSW to be nerdy dropkick asians with no life.

sorry. reality is you are going to get stomped. all the asians in UNSW/USYD (theres like 200 every year) have distinction averages, paralegal jobs at big6, shtload of extracurriculars. they play the game and they will wipe the floor with you guys.

 

[theism]

Hi there,

I have always had a strong passion for law, however, unlike most, not entirely due to the associated prestige and income. I recently completed my hsc and am expecting an atar of around 88-93 (+5 points for EAS). A few questions I had though:

1) I understand from reading previous posts that prestige (university choice) does matter, but only to an extent. If I was to study law at either UoW (Wollongong), or Macquarie uni, and hypothetically achieved at the top of my class, surely attending such a university would not jeopardise job prospects?

2) After just finishing my hsc, one cannot also help but wonder how much time studying (outside of classes) would such a course entail? Would it be as chaotic as the study schedule of a HSC student aiming to excel? What I'm asking is, although obviously a difficult and time consuming degree, is there enough time to allocate work for a part time job (say 2-3 shifts per week) and going out once a week and gym [is there time for life also?].

3) In regards to a dual degree, if I am 100% certain that I want to work in law, would there be any benefits in doing a Bachelor of Law/Commerce over say Bachelor of Law/Psychology or Bachelor of Law/Journalism?

4) After completing the 5 year course, what other areas are there to work (or specialise in), apart from criminal law and family law? Which specialisations work harder then others or entail a higher income?

5) There has been much debate regarding salary and lawyers. I was wondering what the average income would be for a lawyer in a top tier firm both 1st year and several years later down the track. Also, what are the pay/conditions like for working with a government org such as legal aid? [thought it might be an idea for a few years to gain experience]

Not expecting one person to have all the answers, but if anyone feels they can contribute, would be appreciated.

Thanks

1) If you're talking about top tiers, I know solicitors who now work in top tier firms who graduated from many universities, including UWS, Macq and UNE.

2) Yes and No, depends on how well you manage your time and how much you procrastinate. Generally a 4 subject load will be 10 hours per subject per week. (including lectures and tutes). Hours will of course increase before exams.

3) If you want to work in banking/finance.

4) After completing your 5 year course, you will not be specialized in anything. You will only have gained a rudimentary theory based approach to 'the law'. You will know very little of what it means to be a solicitor. After you get your law degree you now have to sit the bar exams (college of law exams) and do your practical legal training.

5). When people usually talk about 'Top Tier' firms, the top tier firms are nearly always predominately commercial firms.
1st year - 60k-70k package.
Associate - $120k package.
Senior Associate $150-180k package
Non-equity partner - $250k- 300k.

Government organization - $45-55k base. 2.5% salary increase usually every year. (in line with most other public servants)


Sorry to say, but going by your questions, it seems that you are very much in it for the money and the prestige.
You talk about how you are somehow different to 'most other students', not motivated entirely by money and prestige, yet you then proceed to ask questions about which specializations will bring in more money, how much lawyers in top tier firms make.

 

[Newbie]

theres nothing wrong with doing it for the money - its expensive to live nicely.

 

[theism]

I would suggest for the OP to have the intellectual honesty and the intellectual integrity to just come out and say it.

To which I would suggest that there are better things to study if the primary motivation is money.

I will say that most lawyers do not make much money, considering the investment they have made in their tertiary studies as well as the hours they put in.

 

[cem]

Of course there are other places to work then in the city - country towns may pay less but cost of housing is less and the local solicitor is seen as one of the leading citizens in the town (my father was just such a solicitor in a small country town and everyone looked up to him). Still a lot of hard work but also a lot of time to be with family due to lack of time spent commuting. Pay may be slightly less but not a huge amount - a friend of mine is a partner in a law firm in a large country town and her income is over 300,000 a year - she won't work in Sydney as the cost of a similar house to what she has there is monumental - e.g. double the price so she has more disposable income than her counterparts in the city.

 

[Omnidragon]

First year salary - low. But hey this place needs someone doing the menial stuff. So it might as well be you and not me.
Legal aid - you mean charity work?