Jobs and Salaries (1 Viewer)

[Ribbon]

I'm not saying teachers don't work hard (well actually, at my school alot of the teachers didn't show up to classes and alot of them where like 'read pages xxx - yyy of the textbook and answer the questions every lesson but I am sure thats not the norm) and don't have hard jobs but for the competitiveness of entry into uni and the time spent at uni I think they get paid pretty well. Its a hard job but so is taking crap while standing behind a cash register... you don't often hear of supermarket employees going on strike... I know people in other jobs which I would consider to be more distinguished or stressful and get paid less eg. trained ambos get paid around the same range as teachers (40 - 65k) and do a much more stressful job, my sister was going to be a vet and said they usually only get around 50- 60k a year. Senior public servants (a step or two below management) only get 40 - 55k. I grew up in a country town and the teachers were among the wealthiest people there...

Oh and as for the long hours/extra holiday debate... it would take working 9 hour day, everyday (which I doubt teachers do) to make up for the extra 5 weeks of holidays they get (based on a 40 hour week)

Regarding promotional oppurtunities: I don't think its correct to say they are worse for teachers than every other (or even a majority) of proffessions... head teachers get around 60k which isn't bad and deputy prinicpals and principals can earn over 100k in certain schools. You may argue that there arn't many positions for prinicpals but I think you'll find that in any workforce (unless you go right up there like med) there arn't many positions that pay that much...

In short, I understand they have a hard job and sometimes work long hours to make up for the extra holidays but relative to the scheme of things, they get paid pretty well ! I can understand ACT teachers striking because they got paid less than nsw counterparts.... it makes me wonder though if I am the only one that thinks teachers strike so much its stopped being an effective method of industrial action?

 

[Raiks]

You have to remember that university entrance marks are determined by supply and demand, meaning that poeple don't want to be teachers, if things were so great, why aren't people wanting to teach? That's why salaries are increasing, so people are rewarded for having to teach inspite of the shortages and to keep them in education while trying to attract new teachers... It all comes back to that economic principal of demand and supply.

I'm first to admit that teachers at the moment are getting paid pretty well for first year graduates, but remember that teaching isn't an easy job.... You can watch the football and criticise and make armchair judgements but if you're experiencing it first hand, it's a totally different ball game and you realise how hard it actually is. There will always be a few shirkers, but thats the case in everything, so don't look at few bad apples and assume the rest of the bunch are the same.

 

[Raiks]

Originally posted by santaslayer
:uhhuh:From someone who actually shares a flat with a teacher :uhhuh:

And a grumpy one at that this afternoon.... but what can you expect when she had to go on camp for 3 days and managed 3 hours of sleep...

 

[santaslayer]

ahahaha...I remembered when I was in year 9 camp and we, as a whole year started playing knock 'n' run on the teachers doors...ahahaah

We somehow managed to dodge the security who were on guard at the time. LoLz :rofl:

 

[Mambomeg]

yeah, i agree with ribbon, i know a lot of teachers work hard, but then, a lot dont, very few students can say they've gotten through school without having at least one really dodgy teacher.
With promotions, its like any profession, the people at the top work hard to get there, and have to work to earn their money, for example, as a vet, to earn upwards of $70k a year i would either have to specialise (more uni time) or own my own practice, which, like with any small business, requires a lot of extra work.

Striking is pointless, it achieves nothing except pissing people off. And speaking of jumping on the bandwagon - i bet a lot of bludgy teachers are jumping on the "i want a payrise" bandwagon even when they dont deserve it.

and - most high school teachers dont have full class loads, they have free periods during the day in which to do marking, class plans etc, its not all done at home.

I respect the fact that teachers are necessary, and most of them earn the pay they get, but in entering a profession where you get 10 weeks holiday a year, they really cant expect to be paid a lot of money. the structure of the school year hasnt changed much in years gone by, they knew what they were getting themselves into, just as i expect to have to get up in the middle of the night to go on emergency callouts, so teachers should accept that and stop disrupting students educations.

 

[Generator]

Teachers cope quite a bit of crap, yet they are the ones who teach (who would have thought!) us all so that we are able to find own way in the world (i.e., live). Given the importance of their job, their rates of pay are quite disgusting when put alongside some other professions (the salary plateau is the real concern, yet student performance payments (in addition to the current system) are not the answer with so many different teachers taking so many different students...).

'Striking is pointless, it achieves nothing except pissing people off.' Shit. Strikes piss people off? I did not know that! Now if only people knew of their concerns... Wait, they do now after the strikes and all.

It would be great if our teachers were valued. That appears unlikely, though, given the fact that many teachers are now also required to act as parents and/or babysitters rather than as 'mere' educators.

 

[Raiks]

Originally posted by Mambomeg
yeah, i agree with ribbon, i know a lot of teachers work hard, but then, a lot dont, very few students can say they've gotten through school without having at least one really dodgy teacher.

and - most high school teachers dont have full class loads, they have free periods during the day in which to do marking, class plans etc, its not all done at home.

Firstly, a lot teachers do have full class loads due to inter-faculty teaching such as history and english for example due to the shortage of teachers at a particular school. This does happen, because a teacher will teach Yr 7, 9 and 11 English and combine this with Yr 9 and 10 History which in turn means that for the 5 classes they have, they will only have 5 periods of class not scheduled and when was the last time you could do an entire weeks worth of homework for 5 subjects in 5 hours let alone prepare for presentation and mark assignments etc, forcing a lot of the work to be done at home.

I accept that there are slack teachers, I've had a few when I went through school but I've also had good teachers which work their arses off and make an honest effort. If the job was more attractive, it will achieve a higher quality of teaching candiates... there's a lot of reasons behind the moderate job salary but a lot of teachers do the job because its their passion and for all the work they do, it's not compensated for adequately. But for some teachers, maybe what they're currently getting is a bit too much. It's the same in all professions, who's ever gone to a retail shop and seen the lazy shop assistant and the eager one who approaches you and trys to make the best possible attempt at their job... but they still get paid the same rate.

 

[Mambomeg]

striking does piss people off, especially when it happens frequently. It only takes one strike to get peoples attention, any more is pointless. For parents who work full time it is very difficult to find short notice care for your kids when there is a strike, they often have to take time off work, or take their kids to work, which is often not practical for the child or parent.

yeah it does suck that good teachers get paid the same as bad ones, perhaps the government should look at performance evaluations and such to distinguish between the good and bad teachers in terms of pay.

if there was a simple solution i'm sure someone would have spotted it by now, i just dont think strikes are the way to go.

 

[chookyn]

about 40k is average for a graphic designer/illustrator (before tax)

however it's probably MUCH less than that for someone fresh out of uni with limited experience (apart from a degree).. probably 20-30k or something

meh.. who cares... design is fun...

 

[Survivor39]

What is the average annual income for a PhD graduate? Is there a "law" saying that they can't get pay lower than a certain level?

 

[blue_chameleon]

Originally posted by Raiks
... a lot of teachers do the job because its their passion and for all the work they do, it's not compensated for adequately...

Maybe I am viewing that comment in a different light, but that seems like a contradiction. If people have a passion for something, that should outweigh the long-hours, the sacrifices they make, and especially their salary.
The current salary provides them with more than enough to live a fulfilling lifestyle.
Take my mother for example, she is a nurse, in a country town, in a good-sized hospital, not in the city where the hospitals are in crisis, and even though her hospital is not in code-red, she has NO social life, gets around $40 000 a year, and is in her early 50's. She works very-very long hours, longer than most people would ever be able to work. Dont start me on over-time. While working around 14 hours a day, she also manages to support a family.
Regardless of all this, even the non-existant social life, she loves her job. Thats passion.

In finishing up, just answer this. If you were having a heart-attack, or were in a car accident where you were critically injured and there was a shortage of nurses, are you thinking "im glad we payed nurses more to attract them", or "im glad my little jimmy's teacher has a comfortable lifestyle".

I think that the teaching federation is ignorant to the public services crisis the state/country is in. Where do you're priorities lie?

 

[Raiks]

Originally posted by blue_chameleon
Maybe I am viewing that comment in a different light, but that seems like a contradiction. If people have a passion for something, that should outweigh the long-hours, the sacrifices they make, and especially their salary.

In finishing up, just answer this. If you were having a heart-attack, or were in a car accident where you were critically injured and there was a shortage of nurses, are you thinking "im glad we payed nurses more to attract them", or "im glad my little jimmy's teacher has a comfortable lifestyle".

Yes, I can see the point you're making regarding passion. People will always sacrifice the benefits of alternative employment to become teachers and nurses, but theres a lot who won't. There will always be people doing those jobs just out of the love they have for it but it'd be ludicrous to suggest that theres enough of those kind of people to maintain an adequately level of teachers, nurses and other similar occupations. If there werel, this problem wouldn't exist.

And in relation to that question, answer this. If you were in a small country town where you're the parent of a child who is deprived of the opportunity of achieving an education because there are no teachers prepared to be sent out to the back of country. Are you thinking that the Liverpool Public Hospital needs a few more beds and another x-ray machine or are you thinking 'isn't it great that enough incentive has been provided to finally get a teacher out into regional areas to give our children and educational future'?

It's the public system, it's not upto scratch concerning health, education and transport... and until the system is borught back upto standards which are acceptable, teachers and other public servents will suffer. If the trains are late, why fix it when you can just change the definition of lateness. This approach to the state by the state government leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[blue_chameleon]

Sorry, it was not my intention to criticise here, I was simply trying to make the point which you have just stated, the goverment is heading downhill with the public system.

I cant see any sense in it, I mean the government can pride themselves in not having a huge debt at the moment, although they seem to think this over-rules the fact that services to the state/country are in crisis, and sooner or latter its going to cost big time.

When the harbour bridge was first built back in the early 1900's, there were very few cars on the roads, yet they still built 6 lanes. Here we are in the new millenium, and the government designs all of these so-called "upgrades" to our roads, for example the Sydney motorways/highways, and they are using 2/3 lane solutions. I cant work that one out.

Anyway, back on topic now...........

 

[Raiks]

Yeah, criticism in its right form is constructive... and yes, the government is going to suffer sooner or later for the way its running the state.... when's the next election?

But more importantly.... back to the topic.

 

[Survivor39]

Enough with the teachers argument already....

Can someone like attempt to answer my question?

Is there a "law" that govern a PhD graduate's income? Like it is true that they can't get lower a certain level of pay when they are employed in their field of work?

 

[Raiks]

The simple answer: No.

Does that help?

 

[Beaky]

Looking at the Government job site

IT Management seems average salary to be around $72,000. Way less for starting graduates I guess.

 

[laney]

civil engineers get around $66k starting sallary, which is very sweet for me

 

[redslert]

Originally posted by laney
civil engineers get around $66k starting sallary, which is very sweet for me

sorry to pop your bubble but try find a job when you graduate, then you will realise the truth

i have 2 very close friends who have a civil degree from unsw, they are both very talented, but yet can't seem to find a descend job
one is studying again, the other is just, well i don't even know what his doing now, doing part time work here and there

 

[clive]

Originally posted by laney
civil engineers get around $66k starting sallary, which is very sweet for me

haha..not quite...try $40k