Israel attacks Lebanon (2 Viewers)

[tempco]

jenzipoo, so why does Israel have to conduct an "investigation" if the UN positions had - supposedly - been used by Hezbollah? Maybe it's just me, but I would think that the IDF would have to be sure that Hezbollah were using the UN compound before launching 12 rockets... and if that's the case, the IDF shouldn't have any problem coming up with a public statement informing the media that Hezbollah had used the UN compound or the surrounding areas. Let's see what the Israeli government had to say about the bombing:

Tzipi Livni, [Ehud Olmert's] Foreign Minister, rejected any suggestion of a deliberate attack, describing it as unfortunate. She said: “During a war these kind of accidents can happen.”

Accidents? Well, the theory that the IDF bombed the UN compound deliberately because of Hezbollah activity kinda falls apart if Livni labels it as an "accident".

Oh, and one more thing... the US media will ALWAYS side with Israel. CNN being influenced by Hezbollah? Hilarious.

 

[Jordan.J]

Belgian Jewish Leader: Israel Committing War Crimes
By Selcuk Gultasli
Thursday, July 27, 2006
zaman.com


Jewish associations have begun to react against the Israeli offensive into Lebanon. Head of the Union of Belgian Jewish Progressives (UPJB) Dr. Jacques Ravedovitch stated that Israel is committing war crimes in Lebanon.

In an interview with Zaman in Brussels, Ravedovitch said that while former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon committed indirect war crimes, current Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is unquestionably a war criminal.

Dr. Ravedovitch said it is a shame that Jews who were once exposed to the holocaust are doing the same evil things against another nation today.

According to Ravedovitch, anti-Semitism is from time to time misused by Israeli statesman, and the recently intensified Israeli offensive into Lebanon has increased hatred for Israel.

The UPJB demands that both the EU and Belgium bring the Israeli attacks to an end.

UPJB, an active Jewish Association in Belgium, accuses Israel of committing war crimes despite the statements issued by the EU and US.

Some Jews still have dreams of a “Great Israel,” Ravedovitch noted, adding that the Israeli government is absolutely against negotiations and is acting aggressively to impose its own interests as a solution.

Seen as a traitor to the Diaspora cause, Ravdeovitch said: “Peace will not be secured without the return of Israel to its pre-1967 borders. Israel should stop destroying Lebanon. It should leave Eastern Jerusalem to the Palestinians and accept that Jerusalem is the common capital; they should sit at the negotiation table for talks.”

Calling the Israeli attacks shameful, Ravedovitch said: “Resistance in Palestine and Lebanon is justified. Israel is an invader. I do not approve of Hamas killing innocent people, but I defend that if there are invaders there will be resistance at the same time. What Israel is doing in Lebanon is terror.”

Accusing the West, and particularly Europe, of fearing to criticize Israel, Ravedovitch said: “The EU keeps saying that they treat Israel and Palestine equally, but how can we behave equally towards both the invader and the invadee? We asked the EU to suspend the Partnership Agreement with Israel, but they didn’t answer.”

Ravedovitch said the EU’s attitude indicates Europe still feels guilty about the holocaust, but that Israel is exploiting anti-Semitism.

He pointed out that anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism are different concepts.

“Anti-Zionism is a political stance. For instance, when a person criticizes Britain, he shouldn’t be called racist or anti- British. Similarly, when people criticize Israel, they do not become anti-Semites.”

The last point Ravedovitch compared the situation to the US’s failure in Vietnam, and suggested that it’s impossible for Israel to attain its objectives in Lebanon as the latest attacks into Lebanon only increased the hatred against Israel tenfold.

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20060728&hn=35131

 

[AntiHyper]

"We believe around 600 people are dead," he said. He did not elaborate on why the missing are presumed dead.

The civilian deaths, combined with casualty figures released by the Lebanese army and Hezbollah guerrillas, bring the confirmed death toll on the Lebanese side to at least 437 killed.

That quote was from the same page and sorta proves their statement wrong. That is the statement of "600 civillians killed".

Israel says more than 100 Hezbollah fighters have been killed, but in most cases slain guerrillas particularly those at the front killed in ground battles would not be taken to hospitals covered in the ministry count.

That could be true, although even then that's only 1/4 of the total deaths.

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

Israel has come in for much criticism in the media and elsewhere following the tragic deaths of four UN observers in Southern Lebanon as a result of an Israeli air strike on their compound. Israel apologized for the deaths and has launched a full investigation. Indeed, there would be no reason for Israel to deliberately target unarmed UN staff. This story has attracted attention in Canada, the home of one of the men who was killed. In this case, however, the media has looked beyond the automatic knee-jerk response that has accused Israel of deliberate murder.

The Ottawa Citizen writes:

The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "shield" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.

Those words, written in an e-mail dated just nine days ago, offer a possible explanation as to why the post -- which according to UN officials was clearly marked and known to Israeli forces -- was hit by Israel on Tuesday night, said retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie yesterday.

full article: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50




Another interesting article thing I found:
According to Rich Noyes, on Monday's "Anderson Cooper 360," CNN's Anderson Cooper related his visit to a Hezbollah-controlled section of Beirut where he was supposed to photograph certain damaged buildings, part of the terrorist group's strategy of generating news stories about Lebanese civilian casualties caused by Israeli bombs.


But instead of merely transmitting Hezbollah's unverified and unverifiable claims to the outside world, Cooper - to his credit - exposed the efforts by Hezbollah to manipulate CNN and other Western reporters.

Civilian casualties are clearly what Hezbollah wants foreign reporters to focus on. It keeps the attention off them - and questions about why Hezbollah should still be allowed to have weapons when all the other militias in Lebanon have already disarmed.

After letting us take pictures of a few damaged buildings, they take us to another location, where there are ambulances waiting.

This is a heavily orchestrated Hezbollah media event. When we got here, all the ambulances were lined up. We were allowed a few minutes to talk to the ambulance drivers. Then one by one, they've been told to turn on their sirens and zoom off so that all the photographers here can get shots of ambulances rushing off to treat civilians. That's the story that Hezbollah wants people to know about.

These ambulances aren't responding to any new bombings. The sirens are strictly for effect.


​

if u wanna cum on to this site n go on bout how good israel is every1 got ur point...n if u wanna go on bout how shit hezballah is n that u dont care if the arabs die we got that point as well

y dat fuk is it takin u 125 posts just to say that.?????????????????

no1 cares wat reasons u hav if u cum up wit for the deaths

ps since ur gonin on bout hezballah havin Weapons of mass destruction .do u no that israel is putin chemicals [among other stuff] in the bombs they launch at the lebs + palestinians

 

[jenzipoo]

Belgian Jewish Leader: Israel Committing War Crimes
By Selcuk Gultasli
Thursday, July 27, 2006
zaman.com


Jewish associations have begun to react against the Israeli offensive into Lebanon. Head of the Union of Belgian Jewish Progressives (UPJB) Dr. Jacques Ravedovitch stated that Israel is committing war crimes in Lebanon.

In an interview with Zaman in Brussels, Ravedovitch said that while former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon committed indirect war crimes, current Prime Minister Ehud Olmert is unquestionably a war criminal.

Dr. Ravedovitch said it is a shame that Jews who were once exposed to the holocaust are doing the same evil things against another nation today.

According to Ravedovitch, anti-Semitism is from time to time misused by Israeli statesman, and the recently intensified Israeli offensive into Lebanon has increased hatred for Israel.

The UPJB demands that both the EU and Belgium bring the Israeli attacks to an end.

UPJB, an active Jewish Association in Belgium, accuses Israel of committing war crimes despite the statements issued by the EU and US.

Some Jews still have dreams of a “Great Israel,” Ravedovitch noted, adding that the Israeli government is absolutely against negotiations and is acting aggressively to impose its own interests as a solution.

Seen as a traitor to the Diaspora cause, Ravdeovitch said: “Peace will not be secured without the return of Israel to its pre-1967 borders. Israel should stop destroying Lebanon. It should leave Eastern Jerusalem to the Palestinians and accept that Jerusalem is the common capital; they should sit at the negotiation table for talks.”

Calling the Israeli attacks shameful, Ravedovitch said: “Resistance in Palestine and Lebanon is justified. Israel is an invader. I do not approve of Hamas killing innocent people, but I defend that if there are invaders there will be resistance at the same time. What Israel is doing in Lebanon is terror.”

Accusing the West, and particularly Europe, of fearing to criticize Israel, Ravedovitch said: “The EU keeps saying that they treat Israel and Palestine equally, but how can we behave equally towards both the invader and the invadee? We asked the EU to suspend the Partnership Agreement with Israel, but they didn’t answer.”

Ravedovitch said the EU’s attitude indicates Europe still feels guilty about the holocaust, but that Israel is exploiting anti-Semitism.

He pointed out that anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism are different concepts.

“Anti-Zionism is a political stance. For instance, when a person criticizes Britain, he shouldn’t be called racist or anti- British. Similarly, when people criticize Israel, they do not become anti-Semites.”

The last point Ravedovitch compared the situation to the US’s failure in Vietnam, and suggested that it’s impossible for Israel to attain its objectives in Lebanon as the latest attacks into Lebanon only increased the hatred against Israel tenfold.

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20060728&hn=35131

first of all i would like to aknoweldge that yes, just like within the islamic world, there is a division in beliefs between jewish ppl. this comes mainly due to different interpretations on one story within the oral law concerning israel. thre are many sects of judaism and one of those being lebavitch, does not feel that jews should occupy israel. they are very calm and quiet about it and feel that basicallt each person to their own...there are other who are outright outspoken about this and they are a few!

this man...when researched on google came up with no hits....i dnt know who he is sorry
his organisation's website however does explain that this group is part of a minority section of the jewish community which believes that israel should give back alot of land to the palestinians.. (which btw has been offered on numerous occasions)

i do respect that this is one man's opinion but doubt his credibility or reputation purely because there is no information about him

 

[jenzipoo]

if u wanna cum on to this site n go on bout how good israel is every1 got ur point...n if u wanna go on bout how shit hezballah is n that u dont care if the arabs die we got that point as well

y dat fuk is it takin u 125 posts just to say that.?????????????????

no1 cares wat reasons u hav if u cum up wit for the deaths

ps since ur gonin on bout hezballah havin Weapons of mass destruction .do u no that israel is putin chemicals [among other stuff] in the bombs they launch at the lebs + palestinians

i cannot express to you how much i thank you..in such boring times of trials you make my life so interesting!

first of all...why are we here?? to express our opinions and views about the topic and to try and be enlightened as to different opinions and persepctives on the ordeal..
(i still am confused at your original statement/question)

secondly for the millionth time...i have NEVER said that i support the deatsh of arabs so dont accuse me of it...in fact quite the contrary, i have indeed expressed my sorrow for the loss of civilians lives on both sides..

and honey cakes u were the one that mentioned WOMD not me!! i never ever said that hezbolllah had any...and please i kno ure opposed to quoting from sites but i would love to see some evidence on where there is chemicals used..

 

[libertine]

more awesome actors/directors are jewish so i hope those guys win so then we can have the 1000000000000000000th film about the holocaust shoved down our throats.

 

[R.G.]

more awesome actors/directors are jewish so i hope those guys win so then we can have the 1000000000000000000th film about the holocaust shoved down our throats.

One has to pity a person like you. Clearly no morals, extremely uneducated and from the looks of that disrespectful,disgusting,out of line comment sick and twisted.
The holocaust isn't some film that one can simply watch and disreguard as a great hollywood master peice. It happened millions died and it deserves the respect of people around the world and people should know how much jewish people along with millions of others suffered.

In fact you cant draw any similarities between this conflict and the holocaust,and those who think you can need to screw their heads on properly. The jews weren't warned to leave the area they were targetted and directed to their death.
All i can say to people like you, is go educate yourself because that has to be one of the stupidest things ive ever in my life heard.

 

[wallid]

i totally agree. u lost fuck

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

In fact you cant draw any similarities between this conflict and the holocaust,and those who think you can need to screw their heads on properly. The jews weren't warned to leave the area they were targetted and directed to their death.
All i can say to people like you, is go educate yourself because that has to be one of the stupidest things ive ever in my life heard.

yeh they also werent warned to leave then bombed as they left. thats another difference.

 

[tempco]

That quote was from the same page and sorta proves their statement wrong. That is the statement of "600 civillians killed"

There's a difference between confirmed deaths and approximations.

 

[noir.]

One has to pity a person like you. Clearly no morals, extremely uneducated and from the looks of that disrespectful,disgusting,out of line comment sick and twisted.
The holocaust isn't some film that one can simply watch and disreguard as a great hollywood master peice. It happened millions died and it deserves the respect of people around the world and people should know how much jewish people along with millions of others suffered.

In fact you cant draw any similarities between this conflict and the holocaust,and those who think you can need to screw their heads on properly. The jews weren't warned to leave the area they were targetted and directed to their death.
All i can say to people like you, is go educate yourself because that has to be one of the stupidest things ive ever in my life heard.

Agree​

 

[sam04u]

There is no way Israel will be able to justify even a third of the attacks on Lebanese soil. As I said earlier, the IDF are following very thin guidelines and aren't taking proper precautions.

The fundamental questions of the conflict have not been answered. All I see is this unflinching support of all the strikes which the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) have targeted in Lebanon on the basis that Israel is defending their existance.

Take into account the following information before adamantly supporting the Israeli attacks.

1. Hezbollah 'apparently' posed a threat to the Israeli state. Yet, they never attacked the Israeli state for over 5 years. What provoked the attack after 5 years of peace? Could it be that Israel continually denied 'diplomacy' and failed to make negotiations with hezbollah for release of prisoners?

2. The IDF are supposedly making 'tactical' precise attacks on 'targets' which they have built intelligence on. Justify these attacks, 'Bombing of the U.N.I.F.I.L (United Nation Interim Forces In Lebanon) headquarters and bombing of the U.N observers and a wife of one of the observers.", "Bombing of civilians 'following' IDF orders and fleeing from Southern Lebanon, Including some wielding White Flags and some driving Sedans.", "Bombing of 'Roads' needed to 'allow access to U.N relief forces", "Un-guided 'artillery' strikes in S.Lebanon which have a 100m radius, mainly used to 'push back opposing forces' instead they're being lobbed into Lebanon."

Now, I'm not justifying any of the Hezbollah rocket strikes but I want you to compare the weaponry and damage which is being used and then analyse the 'apparent' risk to Israeli civilians. ( I support the 'guerilla attacks' on IDF which are entering Lebanon since they have no right to be there. )

Israel - $80m Jet Fighters x 50 (deployed)
--------- 1tonne war heads x 6 daily
--------- 25kg artillery shells x 1,200 daily
--------- 200kg war heads x 80 daily
--------- 450kg war heads x 200 daily


Hezbollah - $200,000 8 ZPU-4's (Anti Aircraft Gun)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZPU-2
--------- T55 tank x 2
--------- 4,000 Katyusha Rockets 82mm caliber x 100 daily (8x2 Tubes)
--------- 100 Sagger ATM's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagger
--------- Regular SMG/MGs Like AK47's

Now, When you look at them and compare them (militarily) you can see why Hezbollah can be classified as a 'defence' force. Besides, I have no idea what other weapons the IDF have in their arsenal I can only judge from what I See.
Either way, I've spoken with people in the IDF and the attacks are poorly co-ordinated anyone who is on the frontline knows the unjust of this war. 500 Lebanese 'Civilians' have died in this war, It's unfair. If you don't agree that this war is unfair then you're being brainwashed or you're heavily influenced. I've looked at both sides and I'll tell you it's unfair.

 

[tempco]

You're all targets, Israel tells Lebanese in South

Everyone remaining in southern Lebanon will be regarded as a terrorist, Israel's justice minister said yesterday as the military prepared to employ "huge firepower" from the air in its campaign to crush Hizbollah.

Insane... there are still many pockets of civilians in southern Lebanon who are too terrified to move to the north out of fear of airstrikes.

Or maybe Hizbollah are hiding amongst them...

 

[AntiHyper]

There is no way Israel will be able to justify even a third of the attacks on Lebanese soil. As I said earlier, the IDF are following very thin guidelines and aren't taking proper precautions.

The fundamental questions of the conflict have not been answered. All I see is this unflinching support of all the strikes which the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces) have targeted in Lebanon on the basis that Israel is defending their existance.

Take into account the following information before adamantly supporting the Israeli attacks.

1. Hezbollah 'apparently' posed a threat to the Israeli state. Yet, they never attacked the Israeli state for over 5 years. What provoked the attack after 5 years of peace? Could it be that Israel continually denied 'diplomacy' and failed to make negotiations with hezbollah for release of prisoners?

2. The IDF are supposedly making 'tactical' precise attacks on 'targets' which they have built intelligence on. Justify these attacks, 'Bombing of the U.N.I.F.I.L (United Nation Interim Forces In Lebanon) headquarters and bombing of the U.N observers and a wife of one of the observers.", "Bombing of civilians 'following' IDF orders and fleeing from Southern Lebanon, Including some wielding White Flags and some driving Sedans.", "Bombing of 'Roads' needed to 'allow access to U.N relief forces", "Un-guided 'artillery' strikes in S.Lebanon which have a 100m radius, mainly used to 'push back opposing forces' instead they're being lobbed into Lebanon."

Now, I'm not justifying any of the Hezbollah rocket strikes but I want you to compare the weaponry and damage which is being used and then analyse the 'apparent' risk to Israeli civilians. ( I support the 'guerilla attacks' on IDF which are entering Lebanon since they have no right to be there. )

Israel - $80m Jet Fighters x 50 (deployed)
--------- 1tonne war heads x 6 daily
--------- 25kg artillery shells x 1,200 daily
--------- 200kg war heads x 80 daily
--------- 450kg war heads x 200 daily


Hezbollah - $200,000 8 ZPU-4's (Anti Aircraft Gun)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZPU-2
--------- T55 tank x 2
--------- 4,000 Katyusha Rockets 82mm caliber x 100 daily (8x2 Tubes)
--------- 100 Sagger ATM's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagger
--------- Regular SMG/MGs Like AK47's

Now, When you look at them and compare them (militarily) you can see why Hezbollah can be classified as a 'defence' force. Besides, I have no idea what other weapons the IDF have in their arsenal I can only judge from what I See.
Either way, I've spoken with people in the IDF and the attacks are poorly co-ordinated anyone who is on the frontline knows the unjust of this war. 500 Lebanese 'Civilians' have died in this war, It's unfair. If you don't agree that this war is unfair then you're being brainwashed or you're heavily influenced. I've looked at both sides and I'll tell you it's unfair.

This news article should answer most of your questions:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50

Israel also has tanks, in fact more tanks than the Hezbollah and better.

You really spoke to someone in IDF? Who was it?

 

[Jordan.J]

You're all targets, Israel tells Lebanese in South

Insane... there are still many pockets of civilians in southern Lebanon who are too terrified to move to the north out of fear of airstrikes.

Or maybe Hizbollah are hiding amongst them...

Nah, as R.G said: any muslim can be a threat

 

[Jordan.J]

This news article should answer most of your questions:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50

Israel also has tanks, in fact more tanks than the Hezbollah and better.

You really spoke to someone in IDF? Who was it?

How can a precision guided missile miss their target???


Only 2 possibilities:

A) They aimed at it


OR


B) They are so grossly incompetant that they cant even control their own weapons.


So i'll give them the benifit of the doubt and say they are incompetant , if so then they should stand down. You dont give a gun to a baby.

 

[AntiHyper]

umm read the article, hezbollah deliberately setup their missile launcher system near places like the UN outpost, mosques, hospitals, schools.

Israel would simply pinpoint the location most likely using radar, send off the co-ordinates to the artillery battery and fires for effect. (Note: thats just my assumption, it could be that some middle man gets to look at the target and either allow or deny the fire mission).

Another fact with artillery is that the shells aren't smart, once it leaves the gun it would travel by the projectile motion subject to sudden changes in wind.

 

[Jordan.J]

umm read the article, hezbollah deliberately setup their missile launcher system near places like the UN outpost, mosques, hospitals, schools.

Israel would simply pinpoint the location most likely using radar, send off the co-ordinates to the artillery battery and fires for effect. (Note: thats just my assumption, it could be that some middle man gets to look at the target and either allow or deny the fire mission).

Another fact with artillery is that the shells aren't smart, once it leaves the gun it would travel by the projectile motion subject to sudden changes in wind.

The observers notified Israel 10 times in 6 hours

Olmet assured the U.N that U.N posts and the immediate area around it wont be under fire

and No, the wind isnt to blame

 

[tempco]

This news article should answer most of your questions:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50

That's hardly an answer. An email that was supposedly sent by a UN officer that was interpreted by some other officer that made claims about Hezbollah positions that contradicted UN's official reports (what possible reason would the the UN have to make bogus reports)?

Just last week, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener wrote an e-mail about his experiences after nine months in the area, words Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie said are an obvious allusion to Hezbollah tactics.

"What I can tell you is this," he wrote in an e-mail to CTV dated July 18. "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both (Israeli) artillery and aerial bombing.

"The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters (sic) of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters (sic) from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

Those words, particularly the last sentence, are not-so-veiled language indicating Israeli strikes were aimed at Hezbollah targets near the post, said Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie.

"What that means is, in plain English, 'We've got Hezbollah fighters running around in our positions, taking our positions here and then using us for shields and then engaging the (Israeli Defence Forces)," he said.

LOL?

In other news, Israeli strikes may boost Hizbullah base.

According to a poll released by the Beirut Center for Research and Information, 87 percent of Lebanese support Hizbullah's fight with Israel, a rise of 29 percent on a similar poll conducted in February. More striking, however, is the level of support for Hizbullah's resistance from non-Shiite communities. Eighty percent of Christians polled supported Hizbullah along with 80 percent of Druze and 89 percent of Sunnis.