Israel and Palestine (4 Viewers)

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

It raises valid questions that would (understandably) be ignored by pro-Israelis spouting the usual "Arabs are treated better in Israel than they are in their own countries".

Well considering that an 'arab', as you say, is treated as any other citizen getting the same rights including that of voting, considering there is an arabic political party that makes up one of the 12 in the current coalition, these Israeli citizens SHOULD feel no different treatment from their home countries or any different from you or me. A citizen is accepted in their own country anywhere in the world.
Really its futile that we argue this as neither of us have asked any arab Israeli's their actual opinion and even if we did ask a few you could not ask all of them so the argument is really just a political jibe against Israel for your part.

The reason why I posted two articles was to have two takes on the matter. CounterPunch.org is an obviously subjective source of info. It mentions that there was a peaceful protest as a result of Samir's death, while the Haaretz reports that damage was caused by the protest. The CP.org article is more recent, and informs us on the court's sentence (pretty important, I should think?)
Will you condemn every newspaper that does not deliver what you believe to be important. If so you should start your own newspaper to express your own opinion. The newspaper does not refelct the government or the people but rather the editors opinion. You cannot condemn Israel's actions because you disagree with an Israeli newspaper. Israeli government and it's media are separate, I know Israel has its evil zionist fingers around every other media, as I keep getting told, including that of the USA, but not in this case here...

1st of all, the isreali jews do discriminate against the palestinians living in israel. Even though those israeli arabs have the right to vote, they still suffer from indirect disenfranchisement. Also, if they speak out against the government's unfair and unjust practices towards them, they are quickly labelled as traitors.

Secondly, anyone here has the right to quote from any source that agrees with their point of view, as long as it highlights and proves their points.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

1st of all, the isreali jews do discriminate against the palestinians living in israel. Even though those israeli arabs have the right to vote, they still suffer from indirect disenfranchisement. Also, if they speak out against the government's unfair and unjust practices towards them, they are quickly labelled as traitors.

First of all get your facts straight (again, sigh, this is getting really irritating), there are no Palestinians in Israel! Either you are an Israeli citizen or you are not. Israelis don't vote or hold citizenship in the Gaza Strip and vice versa!

"...they still suffer from indirect disenfranchisement."

How?

And for the third point you make in that sentence - wth? You want to provide evidence of that? Last time I checked there are Arab political parties in the Israeli Parliment, some of them disagreeing with Israeli policies, some of them not and I don't see them being branded around as traiters. Once again your theories hold no water.

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

1st of all, the isreali jews do discriminate against the palestinians living in israel. Even though those israeli arabs have the right to vote, they still suffer from indirect disenfranchisement. Also, if they speak out against the government's unfair and unjust practices towards them, they are quickly labelled as traitors.

Secondly, anyone here has the right to quote from any source that agrees with their point of view, as long as it highlights and proves their points.

In an environment of life or death daily on the line, discrimination, whilst never justified, is both explainable as a reaction to danger and not of the immediate importance that a peaceful society places on it. And please, if you want to find real discrimination, have a look through the many and varied Arab societies surrounding Israel and see how they treat not just their minorities and their neighbours but their own people, and wake up!

Any Illusion that Israeli society can behave in a normal Western way in ALL circumstances is only held by people who haven't got a clue what it is really like to live within an environment where you or your family may not be home for dinner on any day of the week because somebody has issued orders to kill as many bystanders, bus passengers, restaurant patrons or school kids as is possible. Israeli Arabs suffer discrimination unjustly because of their ethnic relationship to the killers.

 

[S1M0]

Re: Israel & Palestine

In an environment of life or death daily on the line, discrimination, whilst never justified, is both explainable as a reaction to danger and not of the immediate importance that a peaceful society places on it. And please, if you want to find real discrimination, have a look through the many and varied Arab societies surrounding Israel and see how they treat not just their minorities and their neighbours but their own people, and wake up!

Any Illusion that Israeli society can behave in a normal Western way in ALL circumstances is only held by people who haven't got a clue what it is really like to live within an environment where you or your family may not be home for dinner on any day of the week because somebody has issued orders to kill as many bystanders, bus passengers, restaurant patrons or school kids as is possible. Israeli Arabs suffer discrimination unjustly because of their ethnic relationship to the killers.

Although you have to understand, that this kind of discrimination can lead to dangerous effects for the Israeli arabs. Combine the radical teachings of fundementalist sheiks and Islamic figures with the hatred that derives from discrimination, and you get tensions, which turn into confrontations, which just deepens the hole that the middle east has dug into itself.

 

[tempco]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Adalah report to UN slams Israel's treatment of Arabs

 

[tempco]

Re: Israel & Palestine

In an environment of life or death daily on the line, discrimination, whilst never justified, is both explainable as a reaction to danger and not of the immediate importance that a peaceful society places on it.

How do you explain the policeman in the article posted previously shooting an unarmed man in the back?

And please, if you want to find real discrimination, have a look through the many and varied Arab societies surrounding Israel and see how they treat not just their minorities and their neighbours but their own people, and wake up!

Lol, wow I totally didn't see that one coming.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

"Go spend a day with those you so avidly support and that may stem the flow of your bleeding heart."

You just got ripped Tempco.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

First of all get your facts straight (again, sigh, this is getting really irritating), there are no Palestinians in Israel!

umm...what do you call the israeli arab citizens in the so called israel?? i think that your tiny brain has difficulties in understanding the obvious fact that those israeli arabs are originally palestinians and the israelis (jewish europeans) came and stole their land.

Either you are an Israeli citizen or you are not. Israelis don't vote or hold citizenship in the Gaza Strip and vice versa!

LOL, its just like i come and take over your house and give permission for you and your family to live in it.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

In an environment of life or death daily on the line, discrimination, whilst never justified, is both explainable as a reaction to danger and not of the immediate importance that a peaceful society places on it. And please, if you want to find real discrimination, have a look through the many and varied Arab societies surrounding Israel and see how they treat not just their minorities and their neighbours but their own people, and wake up!

Any Illusion that Israeli society can behave in a normal Western way in ALL circumstances is only held by people who haven't got a clue what it is really like to live within an environment where you or your family may not be home for dinner on any day of the week because somebody has issued orders to kill as many bystanders, bus passengers, restaurant patrons or school kids as is possible. Israeli Arabs suffer discrimination unjustly because of their ethnic relationship to the killers.

once again, im not interested in how arabs treat palestinians and how palestinians treat ech other. Im interseted about the israeli treatment for the palestinians the rightfull owners of the land.

No matter what you and the others here say, the israelis mistreat and are racist towards the arab israelis and towards normal palestinians.

What do you call:
1- the ID cards for the Palestinian people
2- the extra court executions and eliminations for Palestinians
3- a vicious armed force military occupation which practices ethnic purges and denies palestinians their right for return.
4- the checkpoints for the Palestinian civilians
5- the apartheid wall for the palestinians
6- the automatic house demolitions for palestinians.

you can research on the points above and you'l see that they all exist and are practised and implemented by israel, against the hopeless, innocent palestinians.

I think that u's just dont want to accept the fact that the israeli government that you support is a opressing goverment, and you only resort to the "palestinians are suicide bombers and kill innocent people" to cover up on the true actions of israel towards the palestinians.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

"umm...what do you call the israeli arab citizens in the so called israel?? i think that your tiny brain has difficulties in understanding the obvious fact that those israeli arabs are originally palestinians and the israelis (jewish europeans) came and stole their land."

Once again you see the world in black and white. You accusing me of having a tiny brain is laughable when you have still not addressed my original points (posted a few pages ago which you brushed off as not being able to read it). Also, why do you view Israel has having a homogenous society? You view them as Jewish Europeans when in fact many have come from the rest of the Arab world (having been kicked out of their homes and losing them when Israel was established), you also don't seem to realise that many Jews over the years have gone back to Israel from South America, US, Australia and many other countries not in Europe. Back to the point at hand, whether they were Palestinian or Arabs they are Israeli now! They own an Israeli passport they have Israeli citizenship and they do not have Palestinian citizenship.

"LOL, its just like i come and take over your house and give permission for you and your family to live in it."

Seriously, wth does that have to do with anything? If you are trying to make a connection that Israel stole land then you are wrong (back to my orignal points) because the land was bought and then partitioned by the UN in 1948. Further more when the Arabs started the wars they lost, what do you expect Israel to do, give them back the land that the Arabs lost? We all know what happened when Israel gave back the Gaza Strip, it simple became a terrorist hideout which reguarlly launches missiles into Israel.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Im interseted about the israeli treatment for the palestinians the rightfull owners of the land.

Lol to the rightful owners of the land, why do you keep saying the rhetoric in which you have alraedy been proven wrong with!

No matter what you and the others here say, the israelis mistreat and are racist towards the arab israelis and towards normal palestinians.

For the Arab-Israeli, the only thing that I see is racist that Israel has done to them is allowed them to not serve in the army for fear of shooting family in another Arab country. I think that's a good thing, don't you? Now for the Palestinian part, when there have been countless terror attackes against the Israeli people done by these Palestinian organisations you can expect there will be some discrmination against them at security check points. In fact if there wasn't I would be very worried.

What do you call:

1- the ID cards for the Palestinian people

First provide a link to each of these showing your source.

Um, no. They don't have ID cards. This might be true if they were in Israel because of security reasons but totally false in the Gaza Strip.

2- the extra court executions and eliminations for Palestinians

Nice lie but no.

3- a vicious armed force military occupation which practices ethnic purges and denies palestinians their right for return.

Now yout just being funny. We've established that by vicious you mean sending over leaflets where they are about to bomb and by ethnic purges you mean approx. 5000 terrorists. Also why is there so many Palestinians if there has been ethnic purges - makes absolutely no sense. If Israel let 3 million Palestinians into Israel what do you think would happen to the Jewish State? I think that in the next election it would become Arab. Secondly why is there no right of return to the Arab countries that the Jews were kicked out of in 1948? Those people lost everything!

4- the checkpoints for the Palestinian civilians

Once again you ignore that Israel has been suffering terrorist attacks since its birth and these are a necessary security element to stop terrorists bombing crowded cafes and malls.

5- the apartheid wall for the palestinians

Why do you compare Israel to apartheid when they are clearly not. That wall is there to stop suicide bombers getting into Israel and it has been incrediablly successful. In the meantime I suggest you watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpjQEvmtNdk

Gives information on the diferrence between S.A. and Israeli policies

6- the automatic house demolitions for palestinians.

So many things wrong with that sentence. Do you think that Israel just randomly drives around in bulldozers going through towns? Lol it would be funny if you did believe that. Let me put it simple for you:

Terrorist hides in house starts to build rockets and fires them from house into Israel. Isreal sees this and destroys house so it can't be used again. Easy enough for you? I hope so.

 

[BritneySpears]

Re: Israel & Palestine

I just found this video that Yasser Arafat was gay and died of AIDS. That could the reason why PLO withheld the cause of his death and propagated rumours that he was poisoned by Israeli agent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPtUg79SGjk Very embarassing piece of evidence.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

I just found this video that Yasser Arafat was gay and died of AIDS. That could the reason why PLO withheld the cause of his death and propagated rumours that he was poisoned by Israeli agent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPtUg79SGjk Very embarassing piece of evidence.

Naaaahhhh.....unfortunatley he was poisoned by one of the israeli agents, that video's fabricated by the israeli's to cover up their nasty nasty deed

 

[BritneySpears]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Naaaahhhh.....unfortunatley he was poisoned by one of the israeli agents, that video's fabricated by the israeli's to cover up their nasty nasty deed

Where is your source?

This has been flatly rebutted here

On November 17, the French government insisted that there was no evidence Arafat had been poisoned, otherwise a criminal investigation would have necessarily been opened http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat#Illness_and_death

Why did his wife refused autopsy to determine the cause of his death? After all it was her who prepared her husband's meal per islamic tradition.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Where is your source?

This has been flatly rebutted here Why did his wife refused autopsy to determine the cause of his death? After all it was her who prepared her husband's meal per islamic tradition.

if you read your post carefully and if you read the whole thing, you'l see that Percy Hospital leaked information stating that he died because his blood composition was altered, becuase his liver wasnt functioning properly. He was also admitted to a hematology service.

As to his wife, i bet ya that she was threatend and silenced by the terrorist israeli government....their professionals when it comes to concealing the truth.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Don't you just love the conscpiracy theories coming from ManiElla? Whether it comes to Arafat or just saying dumb things she'll always have a fake theory to cover her tracks.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Don't you just love the conscpiracy theories coming from ManiElla? Whether it comes to Arafat or just saying dumb things she'll always have a fake theory to cover her tracks.

actually, im just saying the truth and nothing but the truth you guys are the ones who just cant bear to admit it

 

[BritneySpears]

Re: Israel & Palestine

if you read your post carefully and if you read the whole thing, you'l see that Percy Hospital leaked information stating that he died because his blood composition was altered, becuase his liver wasnt functioning properly. He was also admitted to a hematology service.

His blood composition was altered by his Liver, you cannot alter blood composition using poison.

Furthermore, the same report leaked by Percy Hospital said he suffered from Cirhosis, a disease of alcolholics. That proves that he was not only a homosexual with aids but also an alcoholic.

Yes I read and nowhere in the article says Israel altered his blood composition. ,

the Canard Enchaîné newspaper reported alleged leaks of information unnamed medical sources at Percy hospital having had access to Arafat and his medical file. According to the newspaper, the doctors at Percy hospital suspected, from Arafat's arrival, grave lesions of the liver responsible for an alteration of the composition of the blood, thus Arafat was placed in a hematology service. Leukemia was soundly ruled out. According to the same source, the reason why this diagnosis of cirrhosis could not be made public was that, in the mind of the general public, cirrhosis is generally associated with the consequences of alcohol abuse – even though the diagnosis was not of an alcoholic cirrhosis and Arafat did not consume any alcohol, there would have probably been rumors. The source then explained that Arafat's conditions of life during the last three years did not improve the situation: Arafat did not get health care appropriate to his state. Thus, according to the source, the probable causes of the disease are multiple; Arafat's coma was a consequence of the worsened cirrhosis. Finally, he had a brain hemorrhage and died on November 11, 2004. [25] The French newspaper Le Monde quoted doctors as saying that he suffered from "an unusual blood disease and a liver problem".

As to his wife, i bet ya that she was threatend and silenced by the terrorist israeli government....their professionals when it comes to concealing the truth.

Israel and Palestinian Authority wanted an autopsy to determine the cause of his death. His wife denied. Perhaps she wanted him dead since she inherited billions of dollars stolen by her husband from Palestinian funds.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

actually, im just saying the truth and nothing but the truth you guys are the ones who just cant bear to admit it

And you say that I distort the truth! lol!

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

His blood composition was altered by his Liver, you cannot alter blood composition using poison.

Furthermore, the same report leaked by Percy Hospital said he suffered from Cirhosis, a disease of alcolholics. That proves that he was not only a homosexual with aids but also an alcoholic.

Yes I read and nowhere in the article says Israel altered his blood composition.
Israel and Palestinian Authority wanted an autopsy to determine the cause of his death. His wife denied. Perhaps she wanted him dead since she inherited billions of dollars stolen by her husband from Palestinian funds.

I seriously have no clue to how you are able to use the keyboard.
It clearly says that he didnt have aids because he had liver problems.
You also have no proof that he was an alcoholic, liver problems may happen from many different factors, such as increased levels of bilirubin in the system, viruses, poisons, the accumulation of iron, etc. Im begining to think that this whole alcohol/aids story must be started by israel to discredit and harm arafat's reputation. how mean, he's a dead man for gods sake, why dont they just leave the dead guy to rest in peace!!