Israel and Palestine (4 Viewers)

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine - The Solution

Lol to that! Do you think there is violence in the middle-east because of tiny Israel? Do you really think people in that region will stop being violent. Just look at Iraq (Shiite vs. Sunni war), tensions have always been high in the ME, Israel is just another excuse to start a war.

Yes, if you come to think about it. where do you think israel gets all its water resources?? it steals all jordans water. As well as stealing some other reasources from Joulan in Syria.
The only threat that this soultion will cause to the israelis is that the number of palestinians will out number the israeli jews, which will be a threat to the existence of israel.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: Israel & Palestine - The Solution

Yes, if you come to think about it. where do you think israel gets all its water resources?? it steals all jordans water. As well as stealing some other reasources from Joulan in Syria.
The only threat that this soultion will cause to the israelis is that the number of palestinians will out number the israeli jews, which will be a threat to the existence of israel.

It was arabs who stole waters from river Jordan by making dams at yarmouth river and diverting its source in Lebanon and Syria. Israel bought waters from Turkey and by harnessing the leftovers of river jordan from its source by Syria and Jordan.

By the way palestinian arabs can live in saudi arabia they have plenty of desert lands there , unsed and empty. it suits them well.

 

[The Logical One]

Re: Israel & Palestine - The Solution

Focus on "b)" The first suggestion isn't as plausible.

They will still have the "rights" to the "holy lands", as the "seperate state" will be under the Jewish peoples control.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Yes aren't you or do you prefer innocent people dying as a result of thier weapons?

Actually I have thought about it and I realised that if those people value their lives they would move away. Since they don't I can only assume they support those activities. Just say you lived in an appartment and you knew that the people above were engaged in terrorist activities. To most people it would make sense to either alert the authorities or to get the hell away from them.

What if they have no where else to go. Incase you didnt know those damn israelis took all of the palestinians property. Those innocent people are forced to live in the same tattered appartments in which rockets and weapons are made.

Say a person had 5 or 6 children and 2 disabled old people living with him in the same apartment, and there are poeple making weapons in the flat above him, he'l stay, becuase he has no other choice. He cant just leave the apartment empty and carry all his belongings, 7 children and 2 disabled old people out in the streets with him. Even if they did evacuate the apartment and live in the street, those cold blooded, savage israeli troops would be more then glad to murder them.

WTH are you talking about? The rockets are traced and found easily. Hence why Israel is so successful with taking those people out..

wtf ?? ?? ?? ??

Your point?.

my point is that, this clearly shows that the israeli troops are weak chickens, that hide behinde their weapons to slaughter little kids throwing rocks at them.

Please give me an example of that as I don't believe you.

YOu dont believe me?? puleeze.

well for your information not only do they run over palestinian civilians and children. BUT!! they also run over american activist who try to make peace. Not to mention american and british activists, who for long helped establish israel, once again this just shows how those israeli troops just luuuvv killing anyone who is not israeli or jewish.

If you still dont believe me here you go:

http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=1750

there are more tragic stories about the israeli oppression on the palestinians and those who try to defend them. But i just cant bother to post them all. Hopefully i'l post up a whole bunch of them for you and others to read, when i get the time.

My posts don't make sense? Seriously what a weak defence anyone can read them and see the logic and sense of the arguements. BTW about not using quote tags - on one occassion I didn't use them and then I went back and fixed the problem, get over it.

yes your posts didnt make sense. Good thing you finally taught yourself how to use quote tags....congrats :wave:

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine - The Solution

You know perfectly well, that those fundamentalists wouldnt be there if those israelis didnt take their property and home land in the 1st place!!

No fundamentalists have always existed in Islam (and indeed in every other religion). You seem unable to grasp that the land was bought for legally and the rest was aquired through the UN (is there anything illigal about that?). Then you seem to forget the fact that the Arabs living in the area were told to leave by their leaders! How is that Israel's fault? Answer: It's not, so will you please stop bringing up that lie.

Yes, if you come to think about it. where do you think israel gets all its water resources?? it steals all jordans water. As well as stealing some other reasources from Joulan in Syria.
The only threat that this soultion will cause to the israelis is that the number of palestinians will out number the israeli jews, which will be a threat to the existence of israel.

Your logic is laughable and I believe AryanBeauty said what I was about to say. As to the second part - well at least you understand that.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: Israel & Palestine

What if they have no where else to go. Incase you didnt know those damn israelis took all of the palestinians property. Those innocent people are forced to live in the same tattered appartments in which rockets and weapons are made.

Say a person had 5 or 6 children and 2 disabled old people living with him in the same apartment, and there are poeple making weapons in the flat above him, he'l stay, becuase he has no other choice. He cant just leave the apartment empty and carry all his belongings, 7 children and 2 disabled old people out in the streets with him. Even if they did evacuate the apartment and live in the street, those cold blooded, savage israeli troops would be more then glad to murder them.

Where did that happen? Any links?

there are more tragic stories about the israeli oppression on the palestinians

Now this is what I call tragic, Only in Gaza

Militants attack Gaza school

POSTED: 12:18 a.m. EDT, May 7, 2007 Story Highlights

• Bodyguard of a Fatah lawmaker killed, six others wounded
• Muslim extremists said a festival the school was hosting was un-Islamic
• Protesters accused the top U.N. Gaza official of weakening people's Islamic faith
• Same bombers of Internet cafes and pool halls in Gaza believed responsible

From Isra Muzaffar
CNN
Adjust font size:

GAZA CITY (CNN) -- Palestinian militants on Sunday attacked a United Nations school festival in southern Gaza, killing the bodyguard of a Fatah lawmaker, according to Palestinian security and medical sources.
Six others were wounded in the incident at the al-Umariya School in Rafah, near the Gaza-Egypt border, the sources said.
The gun and homemade bomb attack on the school began with a protest by Muslim extremists in long robes, who said a festival the school was hosting was un-Islamic, according to The Associated Press.
One protester's sign said the U.N. "is turning schools into nightclubs," AP reported.
Protesters also accused the top U.N. official in Gaza, John Ging, who was in the school, of leading a movement to weaken people's Islamic faith, AP said.
An hour before the attack, about 50 Salafist militants had been prevented by security guards from entering the school and distributing fliers protesting the festival, security sources said.
Officials from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) -- both Palestinian and foreign -- attended the festival, which consisted of sports and cultural skits.
As everyone began to leave at about 1 p.m. (1000 GMT), the militants detonated explosive devices and began opening fire. The bodyguard of Palestinian Legislative Council member Majed Abu Shamaleh was shot and killed in the attack, an aide to Abu Shamaleh told CNN.
Security guards protecting the festival returned fire. The six wounded include students' relatives, as well as militants, according to Abu Shamaleh's aide.
The shooting appeared to be carried out by the same extremists behind a string of bombings of Internet cafes and pool halls in Gaza, said Abu Shamaleh.
Police said they were interrogating two of the gunmen

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/06/gaza.school.shooting/index.html


Yeah Brave palestinian Heroes attacking school , their own school !

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

What if they have no where else to go. Incase you didnt know those damn israelis took all of the palestinians property. Those innocent people are forced to live in the same tattered appartments in which rockets and weapons are made.

You seem to forget that the Gaza Strip is entirely Palestinian controlled. They are forced to live in those apartments because they left and went there out of their own free will. I don’t why you don’t get it, during the Independence war Arab leaders told the Arabs living in Palestine to get out of the way “so the blood bath could begin”. Israel didn’t force them to live there. But seriously if a terrorist lives above you, it is logical to alert the authorities (kind of hard since Hamas is a terrorist organisation) or get the hell out of there because anything is better then dying. At the end of that paragraph you talked about rockets being made – why don’t they stop building rockets and guns and use the aid money they receive on building better infrastructure is this not logical?

Say a person had 5 or 6 children and 2 disabled old people living with him in the same apartment, and there are poeple making weapons in the flat above him, he'l stay, becuase he has no other choice. He cant just leave the apartment empty and carry all his belongings, 7 children and 2 disabled old people out in the streets with him. Even if they did evacuate the apartment and live in the street, those cold blooded, savage israeli troops would be more then glad to murder them.

Lol to the last part, last time I checked Palestinians did not live in Israel nor are their any Israeli troops in the Gaza Strip and personally I don’t see what’s so bad about moving away from terrorists if the alternative is death. BTW calling Israeli troops savage is laughable name me one other country which drops pamphlets warning of an impending air-strike in order to get civilians out of the way. Seriously you seem to have no idea what you're talking about.

wtf ?? ?? ?? ??

What is there not to get about that sentence? Israel finds out who is making the rockets and kills them. Difficult concept for you to get?

my point is that, this clearly shows that the israeli troops are weak chickens, that hide behinde their weapons to slaughter little kids throwing rocks at them.

Ok, obviously you have no point valid point. When someone throws a rock at you what do you do? You do know that rockets can take people’s eye out and they hurt when they hit. If I came up to you and started throwing rocks at you what would you do, chuck flowers at me? Lol!

YOu dont believe me?? puleeze.

well for your information not only do they run over palestinian civilians and children. BUT!! they also run over american activist who try to make peace. Not to mention american and british activists, who for long helped establish israel, once again this just shows how those israeli troops just luuuvv killing anyone who is not israeli or jewish.

Once again you make the fundamental mistake of assuming that it was only because of America’s influence that the state of Israel was formed. Yet you fail to realise that many in the administration of the time were against the creation of Israel. You also don't see, to realise that Judaism epressively forbids murder and that Israel is based on Jewish law.

If you still dont believe me here you go:

http://www.adc.org/index.php?id=1750

there are more tragic stories about the israeli oppression on the palestinians and those who try to defend them. But i just cant bother to post them all. Hopefully i'l post up a whole bunch of them for you and others to read, when i get the time.

You give me the example of Rachael Corrie, wow how original. To most people the idea of laying down in front of a bulldozer a very stupid thing to do. BTW have you seen those bulldozers? You can’t see anything below you, you can only see about 7-10 metres ahead, now I am not saying it was a good thing that she died but what she did was very stupid. The driver didn’t see her and the consequence was that she got squashed.

 

[banco55]

Re: Israel & Palestine - The Solution

You know perfectly well, that those fundamentalists wouldnt be there if those israelis didnt take their property and home land in the 1st place!!

Yeah because other Arab countries haven't had major problems with funduamentalist whack jobs. I seem to recall the muslim brotherhood tried to overthrow both the egyptian and syrian governments. Meanwhile the muslim psychos are running riot in Iraq.

 

[The Logical One]

Re: Israel & Palestine

These discussion almost never end, because as long as one side has an agenda, they'll keep propositioning it.

Any of you cowards want to take this to a real debate? (With Ventrillo or another real-time Voice Software. We can debate with a set time, and perhaps a forum moderator, moderating it.)

(Recorded ofcourse.)

Let me know if you've got the balls, or tits for it.

 

[S1M0]

Re: Israel & Palestine - The Solution

You know perfectly well, that those fundamentalists wouldnt be there if those israelis didnt take their property and home land in the 1st place!!

Well yes, thats true. The creation of Israel, is actually a cause for a lot of the fundementalism in Palestine. But i'm speaking from the Israeli's perspective, and why the notion of letting the Palestians into Israel is inplausible in the eyes of the Jewish Israeli people.

 

[S1M0]

Re: Israel & Palestine

These discussion almost never end, because as long as one side has an agenda, they'll keep propositioning it.

Any of you cowards want to take this to a real debate? (With Ventrillo or another real-time Voice Software. We can debate with a set time, and perhaps a forum moderator, moderating it.)

(Recorded ofcourse.)

Let me know if you've got the balls, or tits for it.

Thats one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard, quite frankly. Especially the fact that it'll be recorded too.

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

I don't think that is such a bad idea. If more then 4 people were interested I would consider doing it.

 

[The Logical One]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Thats one of the dumbest ideas i've ever heard, quite frankly. Especially the fact that it'll be recorded too.

No, it's not stupid. I just want this to get into debate, kick their asses with the constraints, and then never have to deal with those particular people again. (I'll also have proof of the victory.)

I don't like this never-ending cycle, I want things to be changed IN my life time, and arguing for days on end recycling historical events, and debating current events from questionable media sources, which are controlled by zionists is a wasted life.

I only get one life, I'm not going to spend it continually justifying the Palestinian peoples resistance in getting their land back. Only to hear another zionist, who adamantly supports an apartheid Israel, incoherently attempt to break down my argument with fallacies and tomfoolery. I played that game with them after the unjustified attacks on Lebanon, I've gotten over it now.

Now if any of those cowards have the bravery to have a real-time debate. Preferably using a voice software, then just say so here.

 

[The Logical One]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Here is how that game works.

I say - "Hey, my zionist buddy. Lets play a game of scissors paper rock". He agrees.

We draw.

I get scissors, and he gets paper.

He mutters "best out of 3"

Again, we draw.

I get rock, and he gets scissors.

He mutters "best out of 5"

And again, we draw.

I get paper, and he gets rock.

He mutters "best out of 7"

(Cycle keeps going on untill you just quit or they win. Fortunately they rarely win. And what do they do when they finally lose? They try to BRAIN-WASH you in the ultimate sense. Like saying "I agree with you. You are so smart and so right. Would you join our organisation? which is such-and-such?" )

Here is a recent example of this happening, not directly, but I've seen that same organisation brandished before.

Bare in mind people. This is brain-washing at its best. I urge you not to take ANY of it seriously. For your own safety.

I work in this organization called jitli that works in project of coexistance between arab israelis, israeli jews, palestinians and mexican or american jews, and they travel to Spain and Israel and i can tell you that working over there i understood the problem, both sides, the faces, the names that get the problem when you meet you "enemy". Check the website www.jitli.org, and if you have any doubt ill answer you. Just for you to know, an interesting situation was when last summer we were in Israel with this group (10 israeli jews, 10 israeli arabs, 10 palestinians and 10 mexican jews) and we were near Hadera, a city in the north, and we had to go down the bunker cuz where we were staying Katiushas were falling and we spend a night in the shelter, Israelis and arabs hugging each other, crying together, scared together, and supporting not caring if they were jews or muslims, israelis or arabs. We had to go to the south to be safe. Just a story oi wanted you to know, if you are interested dont worry of asking

Its such a great pleasure talking to you.

It's all a distraction as they steal the Palestinian peoples lands! (Don't worry though, they're also instilled into western government enough to shake things up.)

 

[Atilla89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

You really have to stop saying the same old rhetoric "The Zionists control the media, omg!!" or "the Zionists are taking over the world it says so in this book". Seriosly it's not funny any more and same with this term "Zionist Brutality", name me one other army in the world that warns civilians where it is going to attack!"

If you want to see brainwashing at its best I suggest you check out MEMRI in the meantime watch this:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25370_Video-_Death_Cult_Mickey_Mouse_Teaches_Islamic_Supremacism&only

 

[tempco]

Re: Israel & Palestine

You really have to stop saying the same old rhetoric "The Zionists control the media, omg!!" or "the Zionists are taking over the world it says so in this book".

Nice try, but the two statements aren't similar at all. The first statement is quite accurate in a sense that the Israeli lobby does have a huge influence on how Israel is depicted in the American media.

In other news:

Police officer may be charged in shooting death of E. J'lem man

The Justice Ministry's Police Investigations Department is considering bringing an indictment against a police officer suspected of fatally shooting an East Jerusalem resident Wednesday in the nearby neighborhood of French Hill.

Officials expect the police officer to be charged with causing death by negligence. The officer has said that he shot Samir Rivhi Dari, a 36-year-old man from Isawiyah, when Dari tried to run him over, but the investigation indicates that Dari was not in his car when the officer opened fire.

"The shooting apparently took place under unjustified circumstances," a senior Investigations Department official said on Thursday.

In Israel, Not All Blood is the Same: The Death of Samir Dari

Almost a year and a half has passed since our friend Samir Dari was gunned down by an Israeli policeman. Samir, an Israeli resident and father of two, approached a group of policemen who had just detained his brother on a street corner not far away from his house and demanded the latter's release. There are conflicting versions about how the events unfolded, but there is no dispute about the following facts: Samir was unarmed and the policeman Shmuel Yechezkel shot him from close range in the back.

The Israeli police were quick to disseminate a fallacious version of the incident which portrayed the killing as an act of self-defense. This is a typical and almost automatic police response, one which inverts the order between victim and aggressor. When an Arab is killed, he is said to have been violent; when he is beaten up, he is said to have struck the policeman first; when he is oppressed, he is the one who is guilty.

Also typical was the lack of public interest in Samir's death. The killing of an Arab is, after all, not the kind of event that makes headlines in Israel.

The non-violent protest which Samir's friends organized in response to the killing did, however, attract attention. Israeli Jews cannot easily digest angry Arabs in the streets, and many did not hesitate to openly threaten the protesters: "An immediate and forceful response is necessary"; "A missile attack on their village is needed," were some of the responses that appeared in the local newspaper.

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Nice try, but the two statements aren't similar at all. The first statement is quite accurate in a sense that the Israeli lobby does have a huge influence on how Israel is depicted in the American media.

In other news:

Police officer may be charged in shooting death of E. J'lem man



In Israel, Not All Blood is the Same: The Death of Samir Dari

Just for those reading, the website that provides the second article (In Israel, Not All Blood is the Same: The Death of Samir Dari) has this written in their "about us" section...there is definitely no bias here with these guys.....is there???....

"We've got all the right enemies."

CounterPunch is the bi-weekly muckraking newsletter edited by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair. Twice a month we bring our readers the stories that the corporate press never prints. We aren't side-line journalists here at CounterPunch. Ours is muckraking with a radical attitude and nothing makes us happier than when CounterPunch readers write in to say how useful they've found our newsletter in their battles against the war machine, big business and the rapers of nature.
We're in our sixth year now and have exceptionally loyal readers, who have delighted in our irreverent and biting approach. Time and again they tell us they're sick of dull, predictable writing. They want fresh facts, a newsletter that they can enjoy rather than just endure--and we give it to them. Barbara Ehrenreich says, "CounterPunch makes me think. It makes me laugh. Above all it tells me things I didn't know."
Here at CounterPunch we have many friends and all the right enemies. And, guaranteed, you'll never see any of us on the pundit line up at MSNBC. We try to stay beyond the pale.


What is the credibility of these articles?

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Nice try, but the two statements aren't similar at all. The first statement is quite accurate in a sense that the Israeli lobby does have a huge influence on how Israel is depicted in the American media.

In other news:

Police officer may be charged in shooting death of E. J'lem man



In Israel, Not All Blood is the Same: The Death of Samir Dari

This second article states that the death did not make headlines in Israel

"Also typical was the lack of public interest in Samir's death. The killing of an Arab is, after all, not the kind of event that makes headlines in Israel."

and yet you have posted above it the link to an Israeli newspaper, Ha'aretz, that is discussing this issue and condeming the actions as you are.

 

[tempco]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Just for those reading, the website that provides the second article (In Israel, Not All Blood is the Same: The Death of Samir Dari) has this written in their "about us" section...there is definitely no bias here with these guys.....is there???....

What is the credibility of these articles?

It raises valid questions that would (understandably) be ignored by pro-Israelis spouting the usual "Arabs are treated better in Israel than they are in their own countries".

Judge Noam Solburg recently acquitted the policeman Yechezkel. Ironically, in his verdict the judge states that Samir had not threatened Yechezkel, at no point was there physical contact between Samir and the policemen on the scene, and Samir was actually moving away from the policemen when he was shot in the back. "The accused made an awful and terrible mistake," the judge concludes, adding that "The deceased was killed for no reason."

The judge, nonetheless, exonerated Yechezkel because, in his opinion, it is not beyond probable doubt that the policeman felt he was acting in self-defense.

Officials expect the police officer to be charged with causing death by negligence. The officer has said that he shot Samir Rivhi Dari, a 36-year-old man from Isawiyah, when Dari tried to run him over, but the investigation indicates that Dari was not in his car when the officer opened fire.

"The shooting apparently took place under unjustified circumstances," a senior Investigations Department official said on Thursday.

"The claim that Dari tried to run over the police officer has apparently been refuted," the official said. "He was not in the car at the time of the shooting. He was far away from the police officers and there was no physical contact between the sides during the shooting."

Self-defence, aye?

This second article states that the death did not make headlines in Israel

"Also typical was the lack of public interest in Samir's death. The killing of an Arab is, after all, not the kind of event that makes headlines in Israel."

and yet you have posted above it the link to an Israeli newspaper, Ha'aretz, that is discussing this issue and condeming the actions as you are.

I suggest you find out what the figure of speech "to make headlines" means.

The reason why I posted two articles was to have two takes on the matter. CounterPunch.org is an obviously subjective source of info. It mentions that there was a peaceful protest as a result of Samir's death, while the Haaretz reports that damage was caused by the protest. The CP.org article is more recent, and informs us on the court's sentence (pretty important, I should think?).

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

It raises valid questions that would (understandably) be ignored by pro-Israelis spouting the usual "Arabs are treated better in Israel than they are in their own countries".



Self-defence, aye?


I suggest you find out what the figure of speech "to make headlines" means.

The reason why I posted two articles was to have two takes on the matter. CounterPunch.org is an obviously subjective source of info. It mentions that there was a peaceful protest as a result of Samir's death, while the Haaretz reports that damage was caused by the protest. The CP.org article is more recent, and informs us on the court's sentence (pretty important, I should think?).

It raises valid questions that would (understandably) be ignored by pro-Israelis spouting the usual "Arabs are treated better in Israel than they are in their own countries".

Well considering that an 'arab', as you say, is treated as any other citizen getting the same rights including that of voting, considering there is an arabic political party that makes up one of the 12 in the current coalition, these Israeli citizens SHOULD feel no different treatment from their home countries or any different from you or me. A citizen is accepted in their own country anywhere in the world.
Really its futile that we argue this as neither of us have asked any arab Israeli's their actual opinion and even if we did ask a few you could not ask all of them so the argument is really just a political jibe against Israel for your part.

The reason why I posted two articles was to have two takes on the matter. CounterPunch.org is an obviously subjective source of info. It mentions that there was a peaceful protest as a result of Samir's death, while the Haaretz reports that damage was caused by the protest. The CP.org article is more recent, and informs us on the court's sentence (pretty important, I should think?)
Will you condemn every newspaper that does not deliver what you believe to be important. If so you should start your own newspaper to express your own opinion. The newspaper does not refelct the government or the people but rather the editors opinion. You cannot condemn Israel's actions because you disagree with an Israeli newspaper. Israeli government and it's media are separate, I know Israel has its evil zionist fingers around every other media, as I keep getting told, including that of the USA, but not in this case here...