Islamic society dicussion in history (3 Viewers)

[tempco]

I give up.

 

[HotShot]

hotshot as far as i know.......even when considering how sick and desperate rapist are and the fact that they don't care about how their victim looks......considering a situation where a female in a mini skirt and a female in a hijab are present with a rapist.....even some1 as sick as him.....will go for the one who is exposing maximum skin, cozz atleast he knows what his in for and wht he will get out of the awful act.
Its about time everyone starts thinking straight, and we accept that in such a situation the effects of the HIJAB are significant and the one wearing it has the least chances of being raped.
Hotshot.......when you say muslim women wear the Hijab only bcozz the Quran says so......"the Quran also states there is NO COMPULSION in Religion" (like Anam indicated in her previous post). I think people should understand the fact that Islam is not a BURDEN, and its ENTIRELY up to the INDIVIDUAL female and MALE to live a life of modesty by accepting the HIJAB.

Look rapist doesnt care what clothes u wear - cos chances are he will rip them off, or just totaly ignore. A women wearing a hijab is no different to women not wearing one, both have arms legs etc. Thus the rapist wouldnt care, because he knows what he is in for is the same thing. And remember rape is normally done under impulse, they just go for it, no choosing.

Now the I feel women wear the Hijab under pressure, its like why we dont run around naked on the streets, its that factor- we will look different. For that reason many women believe that if you dont wear the hijab - u portraying that ur not a muslim. eg, a women who wears a hijab is known by all to be a muslim where as one who doesnt is not known, we dont know if she is amuslim or not. As a result it is the pressure that drives muslim women to wear one.

As for stats- u need consider the defintion of rape for them, in america bascially touching a women accidently could be considered rape - we dont know how they classify it. Also countries like Pakistan would have much higher precentages of rape, but they dont report it and the government doesnt report it either. IF you can show two stats of rapes, then you can compare them, one stat doesnt show a comparison.

 

[Zayd]

Look rapist doesnt care what clothes u wear - cos chances are he will rip them off, or just totaly ignore. A women wearing a hijab is no different to women not wearing one, both have arms legs etc. Thus the rapist wouldnt care, because he knows what he is in for is the same thing. And remember rape is normally done under impulse, they just go for it, no choosing.

Now the I feel women wear the Hijab under pressure, its like why we dont run around naked on the streets, its that factor- we will look different. For that reason many women believe that if you dont wear the hijab - u portraying that ur not a muslim. eg, a women who wears a hijab is known by all to be a muslim where as one who doesnt is not known, we dont know if she is amuslim or not. As a result it is the pressure that drives muslim women to wear one.

Have you read my post properly? cozz to me it doesnt seem like you have

As for stats- u need consider the defintion of rape for them, in america bascially touching a women accidently could be considered rape - we dont know how they classify it.

lol......theres only ONE classification of rape.....and touching a female is not part of it.

Also countries like Pakistan would have much higher precentages of rape, but they dont report it and the government doesnt report it either.

Wheres the evidence???

 

[tempco]

Wheres the evidence???

It's the lump of flesh between your ears.

 

[Zayd]

IF you can show two stats of rapes, then you can compare them, one stat doesnt show a comparison.

Exactly, but that shouldnt be referring to me....rather to tempco who was making thoughtless assumtions, claiming pakistan had more unreported rapes as COMPARED to the US, without any evidence

 

[Zayd]

It's the lump of flesh between your ears.

Either that, or i talk on behalf of facts......and you talk rubbish.

Plus im reading, not listening

 

[tempco]

Either that, or i talk on behalf of facts......and you talk rubbish.

Plus im reading, not listening

I was referring to your... oh, nevermind.

 

[HotShot]

Zayd: Whose fault is it when a women get raped?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4629457.stm thats thebest i could muster
not much..

Now you have two choices to answer the above the question, the man' fault and the women's fault.

Man's fault - Naturally yes, it was his action, he has control over his action and it was he who comitted crime. So why then does the women have to wear Hijab? After all its not her fault, why shouldnt all men be blindfolded around women? Why must the women do something when its not their fault?

Women's fault - SO its the women fault for not appropriately dressing or whatever? there is no link between a women's dress and a man, It is up to the man to control his feelings and keep them in. The man has no right to tough others without their permission. According to this, if man doesnt dress properly is a women allowed to rape him?

This logic of the quran is wrong- it assumes that only males commit rapes, but this isnt the case there are women who committ rape as well.

 

[tempco]

This logic of the quran is wrong- it assumes that only males commit rapes, but this isnt the case there are women who committ rape as well.

The Qur'an doesn't allow rape, nor does it blame the woman for being raped regardless of what she wears or does.

 

[Zayd]

Zayd: Whose fault is it when a women get raped?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4629457.stm thats thebest i could muster
not much..

Now you have two choices to answer the above the question, the man' fault and the women's fault.

Man's fault - Naturally yes, it was his action, he has control over his action and it was he who comitted crime. So why then does the women have to wear Hijab? After all its not her fault, why shouldnt all men be blindfolded around women? Why must the women do something when its not their fault?

Women's fault - SO its the women fault for not appropriately dressing or whatever? there is no link between a women's dress and a man, It is up to the man to control his feelings and keep them in. The man has no right to tough others without their permission. According to this, if man doesnt dress properly is a women allowed to rape him?

This logic of the quran is wrong- it assumes that only males commit rapes, but this isnt the case there are women who committ rape as well.

As ur a guy u shud understand wht im trying to say....
As you must be aware that naturally you or ur mates are going to be attracted to the one who shows off her beauty rather than one is wearin a hijab and loose clothes. You and your mates may be able to control yourself from stalking her, or going up to her and asking for her number, but naturally you are attracted to her. the fact is that some men cannot control themselves and as a result go to the extent where they either ask for sex and if not, rape her. AND YES, THE MAN IS ENTIRELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACT, regardless of the girl exposing herself. Although these type of men are a minority in society, they are still there.
The thing you have to udnerstand is that its not only about taking responsibility, its about the girls life and status.

So that goes back to the whole Hijab issue. Maybe, if the girl wasnt exposing herself she MIGHT not have been raped.
This goes back to the question i asked:
Are u attracted to a girl exposing half her body (sometimes even more), with tight clothes ........or a girl who is keeping her modesty by wearing the Hijab and loose clothes?

Personally i fail to understand why people dont understand the concept. AND yes its not only ISLAM that forbids the exposure of beauty for both man and woman. The majority of Hindus (practising Hindus), if you ever notice, actually wear loose clothes so they are not confronted by men who can cause any harm.

 

[veterandoggy]

why do muslims grow beards?

well, i am only answering this question right now, because it cant have a spawn of debate concerning it.

there is a hadith concerning this. the book i saw it in isnt with me, but if anyione wants the exact hadith i can get it tomorrow for them, but basically the prophet is reported as saying to cut the moustache, and leave the beard, and oppose the jews and christians and the majoose (im not sure if that is how it is spelt, but that is how it is pronounced in arabic). he chose these three types of people because the jews and christians used to shave their beards and the majoose used to have long twirly moustaches, which the prophet didnt like the sight of.

i also chose to answer this because i dont think it was answered correctly.

and about the thing how non-muslims arent allowed in makkah, its more of a saudi enforcement in order to reduce the strain on resources and facilities. if non-muslims were allowed into makkah during hajj i would be CERTAIN that there would be more tourists than pilgrims. and proof of this is that they confiscate cameras at the haram's entrance, so that no one can take pictures of the pilgrims and sell them as a business.

having said that, however, i have been near the kabah and have witnessed countless flashes fromthe third floor, and i also managed to walkinto the haram with a camera, but my brain got the better of my fingers and i didnt take any photos.

 

[tempco]

You and your mates may be able to control yourself from stalking her, or going up to her and asking for her number, but naturally you are attracted to her. the fact is that some men cannot control themselves and as a result go to the extent where they either ask for sex and if not, rape her.

I sincerely doubt that's how a rapists thinks. A rapist would have a preconceived idea of where or when he will commit the rape, and it is just a matter of his/her victim being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

So that goes back to the whole Hijab issue. Maybe, if the girl wasnt exposing herself she MIGHT not have been raped.

Maybe, or maybe not. Regardless, the claim that the hijab protects a woman from rape is ridiculous.

 

[veterandoggy]

I sincerely doubt that's how a rapists thinks. A rapist would have a preconceived idea of where or when he will commit the rape, and it is just a matter of his/her victim being at the wrong place at the wrong time.


Maybe, or maybe not. Regardless, the claim that the hijab protects a woman from rape is ridiculous.

a hijab isnt a foolproof method against rape, it only provides a level of deterrance, no matter how small it is.

 

[tempco]

a hijab isnt a foolproof method against rape, it only provides a level of deterrance, no matter how small it is.

So does everything else. A rapist may be intimidated by a woman's height, for example. Using this so called "deterrant" effect in relation to rape, or any carnal act or thought whatsoever, does no favours for those who wear the hijab. Amongst other things, the hijab is an expression of modesty (just as how a conservative person may behave, for example), and not as a shield of any sort.

 

[Zayd]

the hijab is an expression of modesty (just as how a conservative person may behave, for example), and not as a shield of any sort.

The Quran states:
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons..."
[Al-Qur’an 24:31]

Followed by;
"O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad); that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 33:59]

 

[tempco]

The Quran states:
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons..."
[Al-Qur’an 24:31]

Followed by;
"O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad); that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 33:59]

And this is the part where you state your point of view, given the evidences.

 

[sly fly]

Look rapist doesnt care what clothes u wear - cos chances are he will rip them off, or just totaly ignore. A women wearing a hijab is no different to women not wearing one, both have arms legs etc. Thus the rapist wouldnt care, because he knows what he is in for is the same thing. And remember rape is normally done under impulse, they just go for it, no choosing.

Actually, some people are really stupid. I've had people ask me whether I have hair, how Muslim women take showers, do we shave our legs, how do we sleep etc :rofl:

Not to mention that alot of people find women in hijab intimidating and thus try to steer clear of them

 

[SabtheLab]

omg, get over the rape thing.... its for modesty, end of story. you're never going to agree and in the end, any evidence either side will put forth to argue their case will be subjective. i wear it because i feel liberated wearing it. i feel different after wearing it. i no longer get cat-called or given the twice-over which frankly i appreciate. i know that when a man speaks to me and appreciates what im saying, hes doing so ggenuinely, not because he wants to get something out of it.

and hot shot (or whoever) non-muslim women dont have to wear hjab in an islamic country. thats a governemnt enforced law not religious. also, the "imam " you pinted out saying rape is the womans fault isnt even a religious scholar or sheikh. hes just some guy whos decided to preach to others. he isnt legit.

 

[Serius]

Actually, some people are really stupid. I've had people ask me whether I have hair, how Muslim women take showers, do we shave our legs, how do we sleep etc :rofl:

Not to mention that alot of people find women in hijab intimidating and thus try to steer clear of them

haha thats funny.

so do you shave your legs? if they are always covered up i dont know why you would

ive asked a girl in hijab[UoW btw] if she has hair and made her show me a bit to prove it haha

today at uni i saw a girl wearing a headscarve but OMG it was sooo perverted like her skirt only went down to her ANKLES[which were clearly visible] and her shirt was very[for a muslim] tight, like i could see the shape of her breasts the horror! and the sleeves were only about 3/4 length so i could see her wrists and hands aswell

go full on or dont do it at all i reckon

 

[Generator]

i know that when a man speaks to me and appreciates what im saying, hes doing so ggenuinely, not because he wants to get something out of it.

Do you really consider this to be true for all? Do you really think that men and women of the West are incapable of respecting both themselves and the opposite sex? If so, I feel sorry for you.