Islam (2 Viewers)

[HaBibi~]

Domestic punishments
According to most interpretations, authorization for the husband to physically discipline disobedient wives is given in the Qur'an. First, admonishment is verbal, and secondly a period of refraining from intimate relations. Finally, if the husband deems the situation appropriate, he may hit her:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more [strength] than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them [first], [Next], refuse to share their beds, [And last] beat them [lightly]; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means [of annoyance]: For Allah is Most High, great [above you all]." [[[Qur'an]] 4:34 English translation: Yusuf Ali.

there is no scripture that permits a man to be punished by his wife.

equal punishment, straight from the Qur'an

 

[withoutaface]

Status as "favorite wife"
Even though the marriage may have been politically motivated, to mark the ties between Muhammad and his companion Abu Bakr, most early accounts say that Muhammad and Aisha became sincerely fond of each other. Aisha is usually described as Muhammad's favorite wife, and believed to have been his only virgin wife. Shi'a Muslims would disagree with this description, regarding it as politically motivated. They adduce the following episodes as proof that Muhammad and Aisha's marriage did not always go smoothly.

Point being, Muhammad is a paedophile.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yep that would be oppression...but Islam is not like that.

Islam doesn't teach that parents should force their children to follow the religion, as each persons relationship with God is private.

In practice I would submit that it is, I care little about what the actual 'pure' text may mean.

 

[LynH1326]

I did a study of the Muslim religion in year 9 history. From that and other research into the religion, i truley believe that Islam is indeed a religion of peace and tolerance. Just like in Christain religions, those who interpert the religious scriptures in an extreamist way are not the norm of the religion.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

In practice I would submit that it is, I care little about what the actual 'pure' text may mean.

Well, that's fine, you can dismiss the Koran, but in practice, it isn't. That muslim girl who wants to be a model...she is being immodest, but I haven't heard her parents stoning her or disowning her. Talk to muslim girls, go to your local mosque...I don't know if you are a christian or athiest or whatever, but if you are christian, then you should be able to understand that doing God's will makes them happy. and of course, we could get into an argument then that all religion is oppresive
Anyway, Islam, in pratice in Australia, is not oppresive. Not real Islam.

 

[HaBibi~]

In practice I would submit that it is, I care little about what the actual 'pure' text may mean.

sorry i wasnt following ur argument so i may have misinterpreted...but are u serious? u dont really follow wat the actual Qur'an says? isnt it ment to be the "infalliable word of Allah", and ment to be the basis of ethical justification and source in Islam?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Talk to muslim girls, go to your local mosque...I don't know if you are a christian or athiest or whatever, but if you are christian, then you should be able to understand that doing God's will makes them happy. and of course, we could get into an argument then that all religion is oppresive

I don't necessarily mean in Australia. I'm atheist.

 

[Kulazzi]

really really really mature? at age 6? mature enough to comprehend the aspects of marriage or engaging in sexual relations? mature enough to accept the responsibilities and duties associated with such a relationship, and the emotional and spiritual implications associated with it? and mature enough to be the "temptress" in the relationship, with for example, a 50 year old man?

Well, considering the context she was in, I assume there were no dolls, no child life. She was probably taught right from the beginning.

i've got a great case study.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2006/s1705231.htm

(a demonstration of the laws based on Shari'a in Iran)

They have decided to adopt the Shariah Law, what can I do? Reading on, I can see Shifty Ice Queen has given you a link. Iran is obviously more of a patriarchal country, rather than following a "partiarchal" religion [which isn't patriarchal at all....]

You guys really won't understand so I won't be wasting any more of my wonderful typing abilities in here.

If you are a high school or uni student, I encourage to go to a Muslim female at your school/uni and ask her what her experience is as a Muslim woman. Maybe from her first hand experience, you will get an idea of Islam.

And watch Silma's School thing tomorrow night. ABC Compass at 10pm. Repeat on Thursday at 11am =)

 

[HaBibi~]

They have decided to adopt the Shariah Law, what can I do? Reading on, I can see Shifty Ice Queen has given you a link.

she's given me a link, but the link provided information that supported my argument!

Iran is obviously more of a patriarchal country, rather than following a "partiarchal" religion [which isn't patriarchal at all....]

i doubt that islam is not a patriarchal religion at all.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#The_role_of_women_under_Sharia

"The Arabic verse uses idribu¯hunna (from the root daraba ضرب), whose commonest meaning in Arabic has been rendered as "beat", "hit", "scourge", or "strike". "

darabha, means "hit her" (feminine word) in arabic. considering there are both masculine and feminine words in arabic, the Qur'an uses predominately masculine words, instead of using two different words..just like the bible uses "men" instead of "men and women". therefore the masculine word for "hit a man/him" would be "daraboo".

darabha was specifically used, and there is no indication that a man is permitted to be "punished" by his wife, and therefore, proves that Islam is a patriarchal religion.

not to mention:

According to Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, head of the European Council for Fatwa and Research:

"If the husband senses that feelings of disobedience and rebelliousness are rising against him in his wife, he should try his best to rectify her attitude by kind words, gentle persuasion and reasoning with her. If this is not helpful, he should sleep apart from her, trying to awaken her agreeable feminine nature so that serenity may be restored, and she may respond to him in a harmonious fashion. If this approach fails, it is permissible for him to beat her lightly with his hands, avoiding her face and other sensitive parts. In no case should he resort to using a stick or any other instrument that might cause pain and injury. Rather, this 'beating' should be of the kind the Prophet (peace be on him) once mentioned to a disobedient maid-servant, when he said 'If it were not for the fear of retaliation on the Day of Resurrection, I would have beaten you with this miswak (tooth-cleaning twig)' [as reported by Ibn Majah, by Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, and by Ibn Sa`d in his Tabaqat].[8] [9]

and don't let me get started on honour killings.

 

[HaBibi~]

lol you havent seen arabs....

lol go to lakemba...or punchbowl.

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

why punchbowl? theres more arabs at bankstown

also could you please tell me whats the "big" thing about the sharia law in relation to women?

 

[HaBibi~]

why punchbowl? theres more arabs at bankstown

well i didnt wanna list ALL the places arabs are at...

also could you please tell me whats the "big" thing about the sharia law in relation to women?

i didnt just discuss sharia law, i've used references directly from the Qur'an. plus, sharia law is based on the qur'an anyways, so wat do u mean "big thing"?

 

[HotShot]

Anyway, Islam, in pratice in Australia, is not oppresive. Not real Islam.

so once u practice it, it is oppressive? just note the women prayer thing - thats bit like saying why women dont play alongside men in rugby union?

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

so once u practice it, it is oppressive? just note the women prayer thing - thats bit like saying why women dont play alongside men in rugby union?

No it's not oppresive. It is far less oppresive than the major religion of australia, christianity.

 

[HotShot]

No it's not oppresive. It is far less oppresive than the major religion of australia, christianity.

But its still oppressive (if its far less than christanity) all religions are oppressive they dont allow you think beyond what they say. u cant question god.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

I knew someone would say that…I can’t get into an argument over whether religion in general is oppressive…it will take up all my time, I will research like I’m trying to write a thesis and then after I fail my HSC I will come back to earth and realise I just wasted 12 years of schooling in a chat room argument. Lol I get a bit obsessive over the religious topic, I tend to get too into it.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No it's not oppresive. It is far less oppresive than the major religion of australia, christianity.

In practice? I disagree completely. The majority of 'christians' in practice don't even let their beliefs affect them.

 

[Kulazzi]

I knew someone would say that…I can’t get into an argument over whether religion in general is oppressive…it will take up all my time, I will research like I’m trying to write a thesis and then after I fail my HSC I will come back to earth and realise I just wasted 12 years of schooling in a chat room argument. Lol I get a bit obsessive over the religious topic, I tend to get too into it.

Don't worry, I did the same a few years back (not during my HSC though, probably year 10-11).

As much as we try to argue, they will argue back. Each to their own

 

[snobby airlines]

really really really mature? at age 6? mature enough to comprehend the aspects of marriage or engaging in sexual relations? mature enough to accept the responsibilities and duties associated with such a relationship, and the emotional and spiritual implications associated with it? and mature enough to be the "temptress" in the relationship, with for example, a 50 year old man?

Hi HaBibi~,

Just so you know, Aisha consummated her married with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) at the age of 9. There was no objection from Aisha, she had full consent to this.
She was already engaged prior to the Prophet Muhammad but the groom broke it off as his parents did not want him to convert to Islam for her.

At the time it was not abnormal for women at that age to get married. There was no concept of childhood or teenhood at the time (a 9 year old then would be like a 20 year old now).

Even the ENEMIES of the Prophet Muhammad didn't use his marriage to Aisha to defame him. And trust me, they would find any little thing to dishonour him. But they didn't. Why? Because it was NORMAL.

The Prophet Muhammad was not the one who approached her to get married. There was a middle woman who recommended Aisha to him.


Besides i dont see anyone commenting on the kings of western history and how they married girls at the ages of 7-12 WITHOUT their consent. Why is it that people try to nit pick on Islam when in their own history it's worse....

Also, why is it that children as little as 4 years old worked in mines? They were physically capable of doing so. They were mature.

Hope that cleared up a few things for you HaBibi.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Why is it that people try to nit pick on Islam when in their own history it's worse....

It is specifically because of who this person is, he is the prophet and muslims are told to walk in his footsteps. It is now inappropriate to have sex with 9 year olds, however in the past it wasn't - But which rule applies? I'm sure all muslims these days find such an idea abhorrent but at the same time what does God have to say on the matter? Afterall it isn't your social taboos which matter, it is what your God has said that is the infallible truth - perhaps it is permissable to have sex with 9 year olds under certain situations?