Is western civilisation better than aboriginies of the past? (1 Viewer)

[gibbo153]

and, AS I SAID BEFORE (we seem to be going round in circles.. weeeeeee) their low mortality and general stuffed up-ness is because of the abuse and ostracisation they've suffered in the last 200ish years.

and before white's turned up they were a really advanced civilisation where everyone lived to be 10000 right?

 

[ongitsanjali]

That

does

not

make sense

They have ALWAYS had lower life expectancy and now it is lower compared to non Indigenous australians but it is HIGHER than it used to be. How. Hard. Is. That. To. Comprehend.

we have no way of knowing that their lifespans were shorter BEFORE THE WHITES CAME. you seem to be talking 100-200 years ago.

in fact, if you check the aforesaid textbook, scientists estimate that for a nomadic people, they had a very high quality of life.

 

[cxlxoxk]

and before white's turned up they were a really advanced civilisation where everyone lived to be 10000 right?

FOR THE LAST TIME WHO FUCKING CARES HOW LONG PEOPLE OF CULTURES LIVED!!! IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHEN COMPARING TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOCIETIES/CULTURES.

Lifespan means a lot in our (Western) world...BUT

If there was a society/culture where dying, suicide, murder, genocide and cannibalism is legal and rocks, would our lifespan mean much to them?

 

[gibbo153]

FOR THE LAST TIME WHO FUCKING CARES HOW LONG PEOPLE OF CULTURES LIVED!!! IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHEN COMPARING TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOCIETIES/CULTURES.

Lifespan means a lot in our (Western) world...BUT

If there was a society/culture where dying and cannibalism is legal and rocks, would our lifespan mean much to them?

so basically, we as a western society, value how long we live, but aboriginies don't?

you use the most obscure and strange analogies. in most cases their ridiculousness causes them to be completely useless

we have no way of knowing that their lifespans were shorter BEFORE THE WHITES CAME. you seem to be talking 100-200 years ago.

in fact, if you check the aforesaid textbook, scientists estimate that for a nomadic people, they had a very high quality of life.

you can't state that we don't know anything about their lifespans before whites came, and then go on to use an argument to the contrary. it just doesn't work.


soz

 

[cxlxoxk]

The traditional aborigines probably valued their life for however long it is...they don't go and deliberately try to live longer. They accept that death is a part of life, and it happens. "You get what you are given".

 

[Rockyroad]

ahh right.

the only vague possibility i could come up with was that you posted the first one, then forgot you had posted it to the extent that you didn't even recognise it when you saw it again.

from there it seemed that not only did you not recognise it, but you thought so poorly of the intellect displayed in the post that you patronised it by asking how old the poster was.

thats all i could think of.

seriously though, that would have been the funniest thing ever

I lol'd

 

[Will Shakespear]

FOR THE LAST TIME WHO FUCKING CARES HOW LONG PEOPLE OF CULTURES LIVED!!! IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHEN COMPARING TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOCIETIES/CULTURES.

Lifespan means a lot in our (Western) world...BUT

If there was a society/culture where dying, suicide, murder, genocide and cannibalism is legal and rocks, would our lifespan mean much to them?

alright, let's forget lifespan, since they obviously didn't value that

how about gender equality, surely tribal societies with brutally enforced gender roles, where teen girls were forced to marry dirty old men are worse than a society where gender equality is enforced by the rule of law?

 

[gibbo153]

The traditional aborigines probably valued their life for however long it is...they don't go and deliberately try to live longer. They accept that death is a part of life, and it happens. You get what you are given.

do you realise that you can value life and still want to live for as long as you can? the two ideals can co-exist you silly child.

i greatly enjoy and value my life, yet i don't want to die tomorrow.

 

[gibbo153]

alright, let's forget lifespan, since they obviously didn't value that

how about gender equality, surely tribal societies with brutally enforced gender roles, where teen girls were forced to marry dirty old men are worse than a society where gender equality is enforced by the rule of law?

nah they don't value gender equality, therefore, they have good gender equality.

its really really simple.

 

[cxlxoxk]

do you realise that you can value life and still want to live for as long as you can? the two ideals can co-exist you silly child.

i greatly enjoy and value my life, yet i don't want to die tomorrow.

but can you prove that they deliberately went out of their way and did everything they could to make them live longer, such as transplanting organs, etc...except something they did, not us!

i said...they can coexist, someone can value life for however long it is, but still want to live longer...but PROVE that they actually went out of their way to "live longer", we go out of our way by transplanting organs, life support systems, etc...what did they do? TELL ME

 

[gibbo153]

but can you prove that they deliberately went out of their way and did everything they could to make them live longer, such as transplanting organs, etc...except something they did, not us!

not too bright huh?

sometimes i feel like i don't even need to say anything in reply to what you say, i could just quote you and leave it at that for you to read again.

 

[Misericorde]

If there was a society/culture where dying, suicide, murder, genocide and cannibalism is legal and rocks, would our lifespan mean much to them?

Would you consider this society/culture superior to ours?
And, I thought we've already established before that primitive hunter-gatherers have poor lifespans. They may have health problems now, but it was much worse pre-colonisation.

[here]
[here]
[here]

Furthermore, please give some solid indicative factor of civilisation where the Indigenous people have trumped Western society. Preferably factual, if you could.

 

[gibbo153]

Furthermore, please give some solid indicative factor of civilisation where the Indigenous people have trumped Western society. Preferably factual, if you could.

wait, you mean baseless speculation on someone else's personal values doesn't suffice as evidence? =O=O=O=O

 

[cxlxoxk]

alright, let's forget lifespan, since they obviously didn't value that

how about gender equality, surely tribal societies with brutally enforced gender roles, where teen girls were forced to marry dirty old men are worse than a society where gender equality is enforced by the rule of law?

by that are you saying that any culture with forced/predetermined marriages sucks? japan used to be like that i think, and i'm sure they still have some parents who would choose their daughter's husband, isn't islamic countries like that too?

and bullshit gender equality is totally protected/enforced by rule of law, how bout the rapists that get given short jail times, and the pedophiles that are still out there taking photos of children, something is being done, but it is still out there...a large number of gender unequal crimes go unreported, that includes sexual harrassment in the workplace.

 

[Misericorde]

by that are you saying that any culture with forced/predetermined marriages sucks? japan used to be like that i think, and i'm sure they still have some parents who would choose their daughter's husband, isn't islamic countries like that too?

and bullshit gender equality is totally protected/enforced by rule of law, how bout the rapists that get given short jail times, and the pedophiles that are still out there taking photos of children, something is being done, but it is still out there...a large number of gender unequal crimes go unreported, that includes sexual harrassment in the workplace.

These civilisations are not perfect, therefore the Aboriginal one is?
For some deluded reason, the burden of proof is on one side of the argument. I haven't seen anybody successfully argue why (Indigenous Culture >= Western), or even why any reason it could be.

 

[gibbo153]

by that are you saying that any culture with forced/predetermined marriages sucks? japan used to be like that i think, and i'm sure they still have some parents who would choose their daughter's husband, isn't islamic countries like that too?

and bullshit gender equality is totally protected/enforced by rule of law, how bout the rapists that get given short jail times, and the pedophiles that are still out there taking photos of children, something is being done, but it is still out there...a large number of gender unequal crimes go unreported, that includes sexual harrassment in the workplace.

so basically YOU'RE saying,

that because some of those crimes are not 100% eliminated from western society, sexual abuse and other gender inequalities being (by population ratio) incredibly more prominant in aboriginal society, is completely justified.

 

[cxlxoxk]

These civilisations are not perfect, therefore the Aboriginal one is?
For some deluded reason, the burden of proof is on one side of the argument. I haven't seen anybody successfully argue why (Indigenous Culture >= Western), or even why any reason it could be.

i have never said Indigenous culture is BETTER, i'm simply trying to say that they are equal.

Nobody has tried to argue that Indigenous Culture is better because the plain and simple fact is that IT'S NOT. But who say's it can't be equal...

I am just trying to bring down the western society/culture, in your eyes, to the same level as the aboriginal society/culture...I am trying to (and it's not working yet) make you to see they are equal.

A large factor of this is "different strokes for different folks" which you can't see completely, because your western world influence makes you think that sociological outcomes matter to EVERY culture among other things.

 

[gibbo153]

These civilisations are not perfect, therefore the Aboriginal one is?
For some deluded reason, the burden of proof is on one side of the argument. I haven't seen anybody successfully argue why (Indigenous Culture >= Western), or even why any reason it could be.

lol the fact that we both immediately pointed out the same fault with his argument just indicates how easy the faults are to see.

well in reply to the second half, you've actually missed quite a lot.

cxlxloxx has taken us through many great truths, ranging from how aboriginies don't value length of life and therefore have a good length of life, to how aboriginal tribes which degrade women are in the right because western society is not without crime.

read more of his posts. you'll have a fantastic array of different points which come together to make up one of the stupidest and embarrassingly pathetic things i've ever seen

 

[Misericorde]

cxlxloxx has taken us through many great truths, ranging from how aboriginies don't value length of life and therefore have a good length of life, to how aboriginal tribes which degrade women are in the right because western society is not without crime.

read more of his posts. you'll have a fantastic array of different points which come together to make up one of the stupidest and embarrassingly pathetic things i've ever seen

Oh, his arguments are perfectly justified. I mean, he's only arguing that it is fair to judge a hunter-gatherer society as equal to an advanced one by the merit of you can't judge anything by any factual factor, you just can't!

 

[Will Shakespear]

so basically YOU'RE saying,

that because some of those crimes are not 100% eliminated from western society, sexual abuse and other gender inequalities being (by population ratio) incredibly more prominant in aboriginal society, is completely justified.

not only that, but

those practices are a systemic part of some societies, e.g. forcing teen girls to marry old men, as in indigenous culture

but something inside him makes him angry about the fact that it still happens in our society

i.e. he's horribly racist

"it's ok if it happens to brown people coz it's part of their culture"