is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs UTS (3 Viewers)

[vaguespecifics]

so a few days ago, i mentioned to my father as to how i would look into UTS' global studies course as i'd like to keep all options open and would rather not limit myself to usyd and usyd alone. my current first preference is international & global @ usyd, to the delight of my father. but with an atar of 95.70, i understand that there may be a slight possibility of me not making into the course if many others with higher atars have it as their first choice too (2008 cut-off: 94.45). furthermore, the content of global studies @ UTS appears to be broader and seems suit my interests quite a lot more than usyd's, and i've heard that UTS is a lot more vocational which i thought would please my father. however, the expression of interest over a UTS course generated a considerable sense of peevishness within my father, hence - as whenever two stubborn heads clash - a massive debate was conceived over lunch up to the point whereby the bill was entirely forgotten (dad went back to pay the next day).

according to my father, reputation is everything. it determines the strength of the faculty and nature of the student body. he claims that in his experience, he could and can tell the difference between someone who graduated from a uni such a UTS and a usyd graduate (with the usyd graduate being the *~better~* one, of course). in the workforce, as he said, when two similar degrees from different unis are laid out to the employer, the one from the more reputable university automatically outweighs the other. thus, in his words, should i go to a uni such as UTS, my job prospects would be diminished in comparison to those with usyd or unsw qualifications. he added that for an arts/humanities degree, the technological foundations of univeristy of technology sydney would not do me much good. conclusively, my father exclaimed that he would rather i do a generic BA at usyd rather than a specific degree at UTS.

my father's sentiments are very much contradictory to what i've heard from teachers, friends and other adults. i've been told that the degree is what really matters albeit the university; employers do not look too much into the university you graduated from; a newcastle graduate is currently a successful doctor; a usyd law graduate is fierecely competing with graduates from other univeristies for a job at the law firm; the graduate's capability is the most important factor.
i understand that my father is merely being a parent concerned for his child's future, and that a graduate's capability could very well be largely shaped by the faculty.
good people of BOS, what do you reckon? superior rep = stronger faculty and student body? in the arts/humanities faculty and international/global studies course, what is the longstanding difference between usyd and UTS? this uni thing has been really quite frustrating for me; i'm even starting to question my choice of course/career direction.
all sensible response would be greatly appreciated. thank you in advance!

(please pardon the length, i know it's a total tl;dr post so thank you very much if you've bothered to read it all)

 

[jet]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

It was very long, and extremely hard to read with your font choice. Please go with the default next time (will probably save you a few troll comments).

I think that you can definitely make a name for yourself after graduating from what might be perceived as a university of lesser quality.

Though at the same time, I also acknowledge the fact that reputation would have some sort of influence over an employer. (Think about this - if you were going to hire someone from Harvard or any run-of-the-mill university, it would certainly be impressive that the applicant went to Harvard, at least in my eyes.)

 

[throwaway]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

go to usyd seriously.

if you go to uts, you will regret that decision for the next 3-6 years of your life

 

[vaguespecifics]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

It was very long, and extremely hard to read with your font choice. Please go with the default next time (will probably save you a few troll comments).

I think that you can definitely make a name for yourself after graduating from what might be perceived as a university of lesser quality.

Though at the same time, I also acknowledge the fact that reputation would have some sort of influence over an employer. (Think about this - if you were going to hire someone from Harvard or any run-of-the-mill university, it would certainly be impressive that the applicant went to Harvard, at least in my eyes.)

noted, thanks for heads up & quick reply

and thankyou for your opinion, i trust that there is an extent of truth in my father's words. how would usyd and UTS differ, though? would usyd be the sydney equivalent of harvard and UTS a run-of-the-mill uni? while i know that atar cut-offs aren't everything, intl/global studies course @ UTS are very much 90+ as well... ok i think i'm starting to sound very ignorant, correct me if you must

 

[throwaway]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

not to mention that the sun doesn't even shine at uts and the building looks like allah did a massive dump in the middle of the city and called it a uni

 

[vaguespecifics]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

go to usyd seriously.

if you go to uts, you will regret that decision for the next 3-6 years of your life

would you mind elaborating on that?

 

[vaguespecifics]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

not to mention that the sun doesn't even shine at uts and the building looks like allah did a massive dump in the middle of the city and called it a uni

admittedly speaking i don't reckon the UTS campus is very flattering either

 

[jet]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

noted, thanks for heads up & quick reply

and thankyou for your opinion, i trust that there is an extent of truth in my father's words. how would usyd and UTS differ, though? would usyd be the sydney equivalent of harvard and UTS a run-of-the-mill uni? while i know that atar cut-offs aren't everything, intl/global studies course @ UTS are very much 90+ as well... ok i think i'm starting to sound very ignorant, correct me if you must

That was the intention of my analogy, albeit a very extreme one. ATAR cut-offs indicate the relative demand of the courses - higher ATAR corresponds to a higher demand, so universities raise the cut-offs to take less people (it's slightly different to that - the cut off is the lowest ATAR of a person they accepted into that degree).

Perhaps you can compromise - go to USyd for the first year, and see how it is. Then, if you don't feel it suits your needs, transfer. You would be doing similar degrees, so you would most probably be able to apply for credit transfer. That would possibly placate your father.

 

[philphie]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

to be honest if i was you i'd go to the uni where i thought catered to my personal needs better therefore you most likely will learn better and be more proficient.

if we're talking about employment the amount of work experience will always be more highly regarded than where you went to uni from what i see when my mates go after jobs.

and like you said, uts has a much stronger vocational aspect hence more work experience opportunites.

personally i;d prefer usyd because the core units look like they would suit me better

 

[runnable]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

Plus it's not that hard to get into Harvard.

Are you serious? I'm astounded anyone would say that.

 

[akqjt]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

All else being equal, going to USYD over UTS cannot be a bad thing - it may not benefit you but you will never be disadvantaged, which *could* happen if you went to UTS over USYD and ended up competing for the same jobs.

Friends of mine say the Media/Comm degree at UTS is better than UNSW/USYD, where USYD/UNSW is typically considered a 'better' uni overall. So you should really look into the specifics of your course. I don't really know anything about the industry you are heading into or any degree-specific details. Good luck

P.S At least in the business and law arena, university prestige DOES matter. A majority of people at the top tier finance/accounting/law firms went to UNSW/USYD. What majority? I don't think any one can say (at some places it would be 90%+ others maybe as low as 60%).

 

[spence]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

UTS is good for certain disciplines. Media/Comms for example is good at UTS. It's not amazing for everything. And yes, those majors can get you work in the fields, but obviously it takes a bit more to get certified as a lawyer etc.

Actually it takes less, as UTS allows you to do PLT as part of your degree

All else being equal, going to USYD over UTS cannot be a bad thing

Yes it can, if you're trying to get a job as a journalist, against a UTS graduate would be just one example

 

[runnable]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

Haha I only said it cuz I wanted to astound. And if so many people go there, do you really think it was super hard for every single one to get in? I doubt it. If your Dad's a law professor there maybe you'd get an advantage,lol

Harvard isn't the king shit of universities. A Journalism degree from UTS is amazing. A nursing degree from UTS is the best one you can get in the Southern Hemisphere. UTS is awesome, unlike USYD they teach you how to do the job, not how to teach your discipline. USYD is too academic for practical things like Journalism. Jennifer Duke (BoS avatar=jennieTalia) is doing UTS Journalism and she loves it. She wouldn't have done it at USYD if you paid her.

All the "good" universities don't earn their reputation in a valid way/form. Saying that you're good cuz of successful graduates is obviously a flawed statement. The graduates are the successful ones because they worked hard and smart. The Uni gave very limited guidance and some structure for a prescribed pattern of study

Gone are the days where one would learn for the sake of learning, and not to earn and store and use some useless paper. Economics boofheads neg rep all you like; but money has got us nowhere. It's started wars (e.g. Iraq War where the US invaded because of "terrorism" (oil) and it just stuffs things up and makes people uneccessarily miserable because they never learn how to survive without money, which is highly possible and an ideal)

What kind of reasoning is that? Many people apply for Harvard, that doesn't make it harder for those who got in? Harvard has some of the lowest acceptance rate in the world. There is just no argument against Harvard being extremely desirable and selective. There is no aspect of UTS that wins against Harvard, Journalism or not.

Regarding USyd, that's a different story as it is no Harvard, but your statement that Harvard is easy is plain wrong.

 

[akqjt]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

You're an idiot. You imbecile, it doesn't matter what university went to provided you know how to do the job and do it well

So you'd hire an arsehole just because he went to USYD over a polite, well-rounded UTS journo?

....Have your balls even dropped yet? You're taking my words WAY out of context. Sorry if I don't appreciate your view of the world when you haven't even finished high school. As to your example, notice the 'all else being equal' part in my post.

Yes it can, if you're trying to get a job as a journalist, against a UTS graduate would be just one example

If you read my whole post I went on later to clarify that the OP should look into the specifics of the course as some UTS degrees are considered superior to UNSW/USYD ones i.e. Media/Comm like I said. I said 'in general' UNSW/USYD is considered to be a better university.

 

[KFunk]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

The Bachelor of International and Global Studies degree program is a complete marketing gimmick used to compete with other similarly named programs (word on the grapevine has it that USyd was losing politics students and whatnot to the UNSW Int Studies program).

Just do a regular BA at USyd and take the same units. There is close to nothing you can do in the B.I.G.S program that you can't do in a BA.

Also, the USyd arts faculty is much larger and better funded than its UTS counterpart (and the same goes for UNSW which is similarly small in comparison). USyd will tend to have more diverse course options which are more likely to be taught by individuals with a research interest in that particular area.

In short: I'm not sure why you would pass up a USyd BA? (unless you view the degree name as another key employment factor)

 

[philphie]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

yeah i've heard most people have issues with the core units. what's so bad about them?

 

[annabackwards]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

Are you serious? I'm astounded anyone would say that.

Ignore him, he's either a a super bad troll or someone who should be removed from the gene pool

You're an idiot. You imbecile, it doesn't matter what university went to provided you know how to do the job and do it well

So you'd hire an arsehole just because he went to USYD over a polite, well-rounded UTS journo?

Yet another example of you resorting to personal attacks and forming an "argument" using ill founded "proof".

@OP - If you really prefer going to UTS because of the prac component to it, do so. However as KFunk said i'd pic USyd not because of the prestige but because from what i've read, USyd has more funding etc etc etc

 

[flamearrows]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

The Bachelor of International and Global Studies degree program is a complete marketing gimmick used to compete with other similarly named programs (word on the grapevine has it that USyd was losing politics students and whatnot to the UNSW Int Studies program).

Just do a regular BA at USyd and take the same units. There is close to nothing you can do in the B.I.G.S program that you can't do in a BA.

Also, the USyd arts faculty is much larger and better funded than its UTS counterpart (and the same goes for UNSW which is similarly small in comparison). USyd will tend to have more diverse course options which are more likely to be taught by individuals with a research interest in that particular area.

In short: I'm not sure why you would pass up a USyd BA? (unless you view the degree name as another key employment factor)

This is a pretty compelling practical argument to add to what you already know - that the reputation of USyd will outweigh that of UTS when it comes time for job applications. I'd say that the choice should be fairly simple.

 

[jasonml]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

I think that in a happy little puppy-dog fairytale world, no it doesn't matter which university you graduate from, your calibre alone determines your success/failure in the workplace.

But in the real world, people are judgemental. Reputation plays a massive role in both the quality of life while you are at uni, and the quality of your career after uni.

I also think that people who tell you the former "it wont make a difference blah blah" are just trying to reconcile with the fact they didnt get into USyd themselves. Those fucks.

 

[runnable]

Re: is my father right - how much of a factor is the 'reputation' of the uni? usyd vs

Companies are not stupid, they know where the more able students go. Let's face it, UAI cut-offs are almost uniformly higher in USyd/UNSW than others. Students with higher ATARs are going into such courses. You can argue university and post-university ability all you want but employers know where they have a better chance in getting a better candidate.

P.S of course not including some niche like Journalism at UTS (so I've heard).