iraq war controversy in its third year. please respond. (1 Viewer)

[lonesniper]

@ Not-That-Bright, Sorry, my mistake, I do think that Afganistan had connections to Al-Quaeda, but was referring to Iraq.

The removal of Saddam was a good thing, but if this is their reasoning why didn't they remove Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung?

The invasion is illegal - what is their Casus Belli? - 'Cause he's a bad man?'

I don't like Australia towing the line to any foreign power, but if we have to then we should look towards China for our future.

 

[katie_tully]

Oh noes. Australia strengthening ties with America?

BUT AMERICA IS TEH EVIL1111!!!11!!!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

What do you mean?

preemptive strike (while many disagree / feel threatened by Australia on this one, alot of them have similar policies in place),
refugees (their policies are similar),
howard's well-covered immigration views (they have similar ones)
and drug markets (I spose you mean to say we're 'too soft' ? I don't think so, I mean while Australia may be softer than them, we're certainly alot tougher than Europe et al. so I don't think our policy is that different)...

I also think we need to try to differentiate between what the people of these societies feel, and what the policies of their governments indicate.

As for being percieved as a racist society, well that may be true and some of the people there may dislike it... but generally they have their own human rights issues etc, that they're willing to not complain that much about our racism/refugees if we don't complain about their problems.

Also, lets look at the war on terror... on the whole, ASEAN nations have roughly the same position as Australia does. There are several whom have assisted in Iraq / Afghanistan...

Generally I think Australia and the ASEAN nations are on about the same page.

 

[katie_tully]

Lone, I'm not sure what it is you have against America.
It would not be beneficial for Australia to just look towards China only, as our future. Whether you like America or hate America, it is still a political and economic force far greater than our own at the moment. Alliances with such powers can only be beneficial for our country in the long run.
China is currently good for trade, and are indeed proving to be quite formidable in other areas. But that doesn't mean we should narrow our sights.

 

[Comrade nathan]

Lone, I'm not sure what it is you have against America.
It would not be beneficial for Australia to just look towards China only, as our future. Whether you like America or hate America, it is still a political and economic force far greater than our own at the moment. Alliances with such powers can only be beneficial for our country in the long run.
China is currently good for trade, and are indeed proving to be quite formidable in other areas. But that doesn't mean we should narrow our sights.

The alliance with the US is highly overated.

If you look at the CIA factbook you can see China, Japan and the US are very similar in position in regards to trade(the statistics are for 2004). The main benefit that Australia see with the US is the millitary alliance. The reason we want a military alliance with the US is so we have some support in the northern region (fighting terrorists or "failed states"). Though the short sightness of this that some claim is that there is no gaurentee that the US would come to help us and if we further develop alliances in with the South East Asian region then we can rely on joint military intelligence and training. Then with the trade we get with the US, some say this can easily be replaced with increased trade from the South-East Asian countries.

I doubt we would just shrivel up and die if we toned down our commitments to the US.


http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/as.html

 

[breaking]

Oh noes. Australia strengthening ties with America?

BUT AMERICA IS TEH EVIL1111!!!11!!!

yeah! jorje w bush sux! lol!!!!!11

 

[ccmariners4life]

im not sure what you have against america, geez are you insane, the country run by a mad, gay cowboy (much like what is found on brokeback mountain).
+look what they have done to iraq, it might have been bad before, but there wasnt a civil fucking war! with on avg 100 people dying a day as a result !

and if america try to claim that sudam was the reson for invading irag, thats utter bull shit

like one of there 10,000 cia agents couldnt knock him out with a single BULLET.

in the end its all about oil, and a place for a nice big army base in the middle east. america knows something. theres no reson to waste so much money, merely to knock out a dictator.

 

[davin]

ignoring, of course that the u.s. is forbidden from assassinations and that if saddam had been killed, one of his sons would mostly likly rise to power.

 

[Iron]

preemptive strike (while many disagree / feel threatened by Australia on this one, alot of them have similar policies in place),
refugees (their policies are similar),
howard's well-covered immigration views (they have similar ones)
and drug markets (I spose you mean to say we're 'too soft' ? I don't think so, I mean while Australia may be softer than them, we're certainly alot tougher than Europe et al. so I don't think our policy is that different)...

I also think we need to try to differentiate between what the people of these societies feel, and what the policies of their governments indicate.

As for being percieved as a racist society, well that may be true and some of the people there may dislike it... but generally they have their own human rights issues etc, that they're willing to not complain that much about our racism/refugees if we don't complain about their problems.

Also, lets look at the war on terror... on the whole, ASEAN nations have roughly the same position as Australia does. There are several whom have assisted in Iraq / Afghanistan...

I was giving reasons why we are not friendly with ASEANs. The fact that they may hold comparable views is neither here nor there.
With Drugs, I was leaning more to Australian demand (in Bali for instance) leading to illegal production in their countries, with all the social/political problems entailed.
I wont even touch Western neo-colonial tourism which hugely sharpens resentment/rich-poor divide there.

Support for Iraq would have been based on the hope of free US assistance in dealing with their considerable terrorist problems (Thailand/Malaysia/Philippines have on-&-off war with radical resistance groups, often teetering on civil war)
This is what Latham and the ALP meant about leaving Iraq and engaging with local terrorism.

I agree with you that much of what Asia stands for deserves to be opposed. That doesnt make us pals though.

 

[HotShot]

Lone, I'm not sure what it is you have against America.
It would not be beneficial for Australia to just look towards China only, as our future. Whether you like America or hate America, it is still a political and economic force far greater than our own at the moment. Alliances with such powers can only be beneficial for our country in the long run.
China is currently good for trade, and are indeed proving to be quite formidable in other areas. But that doesn't mean we should narrow our sights.

yess... and thats why america is looking towards india and china....

 

[lonesniper]

@ katie_tully, I'm not a fan of America or Americans, but I'm not saying we should cut off America completely, just that we should stand on our own two feet.

China is the future - we should catch a ride...

 

[loquasagacious]

So we should both stand on our own two feet and attatch ourselves to China?? That seems to be an oxymoron of sorts.

Also the cultural links with the US are too string to allow such a simple change of allegiance in that manner.

It is best for us to continue as we have been and benefit from both, for strategic reasons we should pursue closer ties with our South East Asian neighbours (not China) however for blatantly obvious demographic reasons for the concievable future we will be linked to the US culturally.

 

[ogmzergrush]

Now that the Iraq was has reached its third year what are your views on its neccesity?

I was never a fan, but now that it's all gone pear shaped there's no real choice but to stick it out until things are stable (Here's to the new millennium).

What do you feel is the real incentive of the Iraq war and Ausralias continual involvement?

peer pressure man!

Australia seems to be continually bombarded with horrific images in the media. do
you feel they hold an accurate perception of reality?

I don't imagine we see anything close to the worst of it.

How big is the threat of terrorism in australia?

I think it's inevitable, over a long enough timeframe.

Do you feel it is very likely for you to be attacked by a terrorist?

Unlikely, negligible chance I assume but not substantial enough to lose sleep over.

When someone speaks of a terrorist what image comes to mind?

I'm with breaking on this one.

 

[ogmzergrush]

+look what they have done to iraq, it might have been bad before, but there wasnt a civil fucking war! with on avg 100 people dying a day as a result !

An entire population living indefinitely in a state of scared submission is preferable? ookay!

Take WW2 for example, I mean sure they were toasting jews like there was no tomorrow, but for fuck's sake, it wasn't a waR!!!!!

 

[lonesniper]

"So we should both stand on our own two feet and attatch ourselves to China?? That seems to be an oxymoron of sorts."

Not 'attach' ourselves, I'm talking economics, investment and friendly relations.

America should be condemned by the world for the invasion of Iraq - it's illegal, and they have no right to be there. They are not setting an example to follow by romping around invading countries at will. If the U.S runs around invading countries simply for strategic reasons (no WMDS found!) they are little better than the nations they condemn.

For all their talk of 'spreading freedom' it's not exaclty freedom if they're dispensing it out of a gun barrel now is it!

 

[HotShot]

"So we should both stand on our own two feet and attatch ourselves to China?? That seems to be an oxymoron of sorts."

Not 'attach' ourselves, I'm talking economics, investment and friendly relations.

America should be condemned by the world for the invasion of Iraq - it's illegal, and they have no right to be there. They are not setting an example to follow by romping around invading countries at will. If the U.S runs around invading countries simply for strategic reasons (no WMDS found!) they are little better than the nations they condemn.

For all their talk of 'spreading freedom' it's not exaclty freedom if they're dispensing it out of a gun barrel now is it!

and now the us is starting their nuclear program. i dont see why they need to, looks they are looking bomb someone. (hint Iran..)

 

[banco55]

Nuclear weapons have shelf lives so the US is just maintaining and updating their arsenal. Considering the relatively small amount of money it will cost them it's worth doing.

 

[HotShot]

Nuclear weapons have shelf lives so the US is just maintaining and updating their arsenal. Considering the relatively small amount of money it will cost them it's worth doing.

thats the biggest BS i ever heard. so is that why they are going to build a more productive factory?

BS-BULLSHIT>

 

[bigboyjames]

If the westerners havent been able to accept the casualties and the lives that have been lost in this war on terror i.e. innocent civilians, soldiers, policemen as proof of the fact that the war in Iraq was wrong then this proves that the US/Howard govt/UK/Europe are simply dim-witted or had a different agenda. The ignorant Western elite will always look down upon anything or anyone that does not follow their religion. ..... no not Christianity, but capitalism and materialism.

so many people that live in the west are so ignorant who still think we are fighting a war for freedom. these people are so dumb because they just don't want to know the truth, they don't want to think, they are too materialistic and tend to think in materialistic terms. It just makes me sick whenever i see a country judging the cost, benefit of the war in terms of their local economy, oil prices, unemployment, inflation rather than the lives and casualties at Stake.


toof.

 

[sam04u]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV3qN80hqf0 <--- video about war on Iraq