Intolerance: Christians vs. Atheists (2 Viewers)

[toadstooltown]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

I don't think it's really a case that Atheists are smarter or more logical. It depends whether they were religious previously.

For a person to be brought up in a fairly religious manner, with all the aspects of that religion, and for them to seriously question their beliefs about that and then come to a conclusion that they do not believe in a god might not make them 'smart' but at least they've challenged their own ideas.

Conversely, for a person brought up in a completely non-religious environment (but not believing that there isn't a god) to then say "I don't believe in a god" because they want to separate themselves from 'religious nutters' as they may see it isn't smart or logical at all.

I can completely understand how religious people would get very offended when they are told "there is no god" and someone tries to 'convert' them to atheism. Being told that this 'safety-net' and deep meaning you find in your life is baseless is pretty offensive, perhaps to the same extent as a gay person is when they are told 'you're going to hell' or something simliar. I wouldn't know.

I'm atheist but that just means that I believe that there is no god. It doesn't mean I have to go around shouting at religious people and telling them that they're "wrong" and I'm right. It's just what I beileve. The whole point is that no one can prove anything or have 'truth' when it comes to something like religion, they just beileve what they do.

 

[S1M0]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

I don't think it's really a case that Atheists are smarter or more logical. It depends whether they were religious previously.

For a person to be brought up in a fairly religious manner, with all the aspects of that religion, and for them to seriously question their beliefs about that and then come to a conclusion that they do not believe in a god might not make them 'smart' but at least they've challenged their own ideas.

Conversely, for a person brought up in a completely non-religious environment (but not believing that there isn't a god) to then say "I don't believe in a god" because they want to separate themselves from 'religious nutters' as they may see it isn't smart or logical at all.

I can completely understand how religious people would get very offended when they are told "there is no god" and someone tries to 'convert' them to atheism. Being told that this 'safety-net' and deep meaning you find in your life is baseless is pretty offensive, perhaps to the same extent as a gay person is when they are told 'you're going to hell' or something simliar. I wouldn't know.

I'm atheist but that just means that I believe that there is no god. It doesn't mean I have to go around shouting at religious people and telling them that they're "wrong" and I'm right. It's just what I beileve. The whole point is that no one can prove anything or have 'truth' when it comes to something like religion, they just beileve what they do.

Quoted for truth.

 

[YankeeChica]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

Stalin the most famous Atheist was just smart enough to kill 60 million people of his own! Smart Atheist huh?

 

[Legham]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

Smart Atheist huh?

If he kept getting away with it, then yes :O

 

[blahmeh]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

True to some extent, but I do have a problem with the hatebreeding that goes on. eg. Muslim countries. Those people are being taught to hate ideas/people because of their religious beliefs. Look at the reaction to the Jyllands-Posten Mohammed cartoons, where some Muslims were burning things(like flags, embassies) down etc.

No religion, goes ahead encouraging violence and war, and killing of women and children, and islam is no exception to this.

Don't even start me on the danish cartoons? What the muslims did in response was stupid and ahh... really really there's no exscuse, however those cartoonists have no right whatsoever to insult one of the major prophets of one of the worlds biggest religions- especially in this hype and in the Situation we are in today.

The danish cartoons weren't right, however the actions of those muslims were not right eaith.

So yeah.

 

[dagwoman]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

Stalin the most famous Atheist was just smart enough to kill 60 million people of his own! Smart Atheist huh?

Yeah, that totally had to do with a) intelligence and b) being an athiest! Gold star.

 

[ellen.louise]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

Actually, in regards to the original poster, I have nothing against people who believe in God, merely institutionalised religion and those who push their faith on others.

Believe all you want, just A) don't force it on me or B) quote the Bible.

I've met so many people who have said that they have been to church and told how bad they were. I think it's crap how people pretend to have the moral highground because they beleive in God. I'm Christian and I have about as much clue about how to be good as the next person.

I think you could make an argument for athiests being smarter.

They may not have a higher IQ or anything but what kind of person makes a decision to believe in god based on the evidence we have now... in my opinion a fairly stupid (or maybe just an emotionally weak) person.

I've never been that interested in science: thus I don't actually know that much about evolution theory, etc. But I don't think this kind of stuff has ever been solidly proven. Really, atheists take a lot of it on faith: they beleive in science, or they just never think about it. People who beleive in different gods do the same thing: take it on faith. I'm not stupid, and I'm a strong person. I just... also beleive in God.

Religion or Faith does not render people emotionally weak. You've gotta be who you are. <cliche, i know...>

 

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

I've never been that interested in science: thus I don't actually know that much about evolution theory, etc. But I don't think this kind of stuff has ever been solidly proven. Really, atheists take a lot of it on faith: they beleive in science, or they just never think about it. People who beleive in different gods do the same thing: take it on faith. I'm not stupid, and I'm a strong person. I just... also beleive in God.

Religion or Faith does not render people emotionally weak. You've gotta be who you are. <cliche, i know...>

ellen.louise has made a statement that shows a horrible misunderstanding of science and how it works; Newton would be spinning in his grave (if acted upon by an unbalanced force).

Some will conclude that this is because she has some amount of religious faith (though obviously not a huge or fanatical amount) and is therefore less logical and is making blanket statements about atheists and science to try to equate them with faith

I claim that it's just because she's (admittedly) uneducated about these things, and if taught about them in some way would be no less able to understand than someone who had religious beliefs (or lack of) completely different to her

I also claim that someone with no belief in any religion or God might just as easily be fooled or unable to apply logical thinking in some area not related to religion, as another person who does believe in God. The differences would be on an individual basis.

Don't be surprised if wealthy secular nations take up with some other cult in future.

 

[ellen.louise]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

ellen.louise has made a statement that shows a horrible misunderstanding of science and how it works; Newton would be spinning in his grave (if acted upon by an unbalanced force).

Some will conclude that this is because she has some amount of religious faith (though obviously not a huge or fanatical amount) and is therefore less logical and is making blanket statements about atheists and science to try to equate them with faith

I claim that it's just because she's (admittedly) uneducated about these things, and if taught about them in some way would be no less able to understand than someone who had religious beliefs (or lack of) completely different to her

I also claim that someone with no belief in any religion or God might just as easily be fooled or unable to apply logical thinking in some area not related to religion, as another person who does believe in God. The differences would be on an individual basis.

Don't be surprised if wealthy secular nations take up with some other cult in future.

I got lost 1/2way through. what were you trying to say?

 

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

1. Not believing in God doesn't preclude anyone from making errors in logic, thus the idea that 'atheists are more logical' is silly

2. The stats dagwoman presented above really just show how tragically poor african countries need education

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

I've never been that interested in science: thus I don't actually know that much about evolution theory, etc. But I don't think this kind of stuff has ever been solidly proven. Really, atheists take a lot of it on faith: they beleive in science, or they just never think about it.

The theory of evolution is not faith.

 

[ellen.louise]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

The theory of evolution is not faith.

S'pose not. But a lot of people firmly beleive it despite lack of solid evidence.

 

[YankeeChica]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

Yeah, that totally had to do with a) intelligence and b) being an athiest! Gold star.

yes it totally had to with the topic of this thread intolerance. Diamond star!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

1. Not believing in God doesn't preclude anyone from making errors in logic, thus the idea that 'atheists are more logical' is silly

Ok...

Do you accept that it's possible for a group of people to be better at X than others, for whatever reason? If so then isn't it possible atheists are more logical than others, despite atheism not being an automatic ticket to making no mistakes (lol, your words not mine) of logic?

2. The stats dagwoman presented above really just show how tragically poor african countries need education

Sure it did...

I don't think it's really a case that Atheists are smarter or more logical. It depends whether they were religious previously.

For a person to be brought up in a fairly religious manner, with all the aspects of that religion, and for them to seriously question their beliefs about that and then come to a conclusion that they do not believe in a god might not make them 'smart' but at least they've challenged their own ideas.

Conversely, for a person brought up in a completely non-religious environment (but not believing that there isn't a god) to then say "I don't believe in a god" because they want to separate themselves from 'religious nutters' as they may see it isn't smart or logical at all.

I can completely understand how religious people would get very offended when they are told "there is no god" and someone tries to 'convert' them to atheism. Being told that this 'safety-net' and deep meaning you find in your life is baseless is pretty offensive, perhaps to the same extent as a gay person is when they are told 'you're going to hell' or something simliar. I wouldn't know.

I'm atheist but that just means that I believe that there is no god. It doesn't mean I have to go around shouting at religious people and telling them that they're "wrong" and I'm right. It's just what I beileve. The whole point is that no one can prove anything or have 'truth' when it comes to something like religion, they just beileve what they do.

Hmm I used to think this way, but I'm really not sure. It's definately true though that a sign of intelligence would be someone who's willing to look at their surroundings and come to a new conclusion, on their own.

 

[Legham]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

ellen.louise has made a statement that shows a horrible misunderstanding of science and how it works; Newton would be spinning in his grave (if acted upon by an unbalanced force).

I felt like the biggest nerd for laughing at that

 

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

Ok...

Do you accept that it's possible for a group of people to be better at X than others, for whatever reason? If so then isn't it possible atheists are more logical than others, despite atheism not being an automatic ticket to making no mistakes (lol, your words not mine) of logic?

No, because if someone on this forum tries to make any other generalisations about atheists you're the first person who rushes to say they have no common characteristics as a group except lack of belief in God.

Sure it did...

If you read the link to the pdf that shows where they got the religiosity stats from (the Pew Poll) it shows that the top nations are
Senegal 97%
Nigeria 92%
Iv. Coast 91%
Mali 90%
S. Africa 87%
Kenya 85%
Uganda 85%
Ghana 84%
Tanzania 83%
Angola 80%

so these are countries where most of the population aren't educated, are poor, etc. so it's hardly fair to compare their 'intelligence' to people in Europe.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

No, because if someone on this forum tries to make any other generalisations about atheists you're the first person who rushes to say they have no common characteristics as a group except lack of belief in God.

You need to actually pay attention to the way arguments work and not just try to get a general feel for what they are. I don't think I say that, or at least if I do I retract such statements. It's silly to say groups don't share common characteristics, but at the same time I think what you need to realise is perhaps my point is that it's not a virtue of their atheism? I.e. you can say atheists as a whole are jerks or something, but you can't say that non-belief in god makes people jerks by the same token.

edit: so many redundancies.

2. The stats dagwoman presented above really just show how tragically poor african countries need education

Think about it, if with education comes atheism doesn't that mean that with more intelligent people comes atheism? Perhaps you might want to mount an argument that it's mere wealth and not education, that's what I'd do.

 

[bshoc]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

The theory of evolution is not faith.

With the record of the Cambrian Explosion and some of the things they're digging up in Chinese fossil beds, it can't be anything other ..

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

With the record of the Cambrian Explosion and some of the things they're digging up in Chinese fossil beds, it can't be anything other ..

You're still going on with the cambrian explosion thing... a) there are alternative hypotheses b) even if we can't explain the cambrian explosion, so what? Evolution works for every other part, over that one we can say 'does not currently completely fit', awesome.

 

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

Re: intolerance Christians vs. atheists

Think about it, if with education comes atheism doesn't that mean that with more intelligent people comes atheism? Perhaps you might want to mount an argument that it's mere wealth and not education, that's what I'd do.

If the African nations were richer and therefore better educated they mightn't necessarily have the same levels of religion as in Europe. America doesn't.
So there's really social and cultural affects that are obviously different in Europe compared to America even though they have similar intelligence.