important - emma and clueless (1 Viewer)

[emskii]

heres some stuff our teacher told us which i thought might be useful:

your answer must be IN BALANCE of both texts and must include these six things
1. thesis answering the given question - argument , case, position (need flair)
2. context - social and historical
3. values - what does this text value, values linked to context
4. form - genre - novel, film
5. language devices - how
6. quotations

balance is verything. too much context makes it a history essay but you have to deal with it. discuss context by showing your knowlege of the text

how to get a c or less:
write a shopping list of minor transformations
prove you have never read Emma
take a thematic approach

this last one is most important!!!
i have read too many peoples notes on BOS that talk about themes within clueless/emma. you musnt do this you must talk about values!!!
difference between values and themes:
love is a theme in both texts, the value is to marry for love (mr knightly and emma vs the eltons)

must look at: purpose of the text and how the text conveys that value

ok that is all. i hope it helps some of you!!

 

[pirate]

thankyou, thankyou thankyou. i'll have to go back and reorganise all of my stuff now, i was talking about themes way to much. oh thankyou. lol, ur a life saver.

 

[pirate]

what do u suggest could a be a general structure of an essay, like what should it involve

 

[emskii]

values: emma
- marrying for love not jst economic advantage
- class system - inherited wealth (old money) most highly valued
- marrying within social class
- burkeon society valued (celebrates english was of life where family is cornerstone of societ etc)

clueless
- antidrugs
- hard work to get money
- how money can be used for the good of others
- values the society as egalitarian
- loving relationships
- sexual responsibilty

hrmmm.. theres probably more but thats all i have for now

 

[cricketscorer]

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket emskii, but I think that Emma values a marriage which is a balance between love and economic advantage. I mean to say, the marriage between Elton and Augusta is frowned upon, because she is "as elegant as pearls and lace" could make her, and crass with her "Mr. E"s, but she has a rich pedigree. But, the marriage between Frank and Jane is criticised too; Mr. Weston says "there is one part of [his] conduct we cannot excuse" and Frank has to write and justify himself to Emma. So I think it values a balance. 'Clueless' is the same, because the Cher/Josh, Murray/Dionne and Tai/Travis matches are all a balance of love and money - even Murray drives the BMW convertible.

Sorry to criticise, but I think it's an important point.

 

[tennille]

Originally posted by Pirate
what do u suggest could a be a general structure of an essay, like what should it involve

It really depends on the question, Pirate. For this module, questions can differ to a significant extent that what you have planned to write can be difficult to adapt to the question.

Many essays I have read focus on the themes of social status, marriage and status of women. Personally, I think they are too similar to talk about so the marker may find it hard to distinguish between themes.

I recently viewed the standard's package of last year's HSC question for this module. To be perfectly honest, those essays weren't too great. The themes were all over the place, hence, it didn't appear to have a clear structure (this is my opinion, sorry if I offended anyone).

I would set the essay theme by theme. I would focus on something else other than status of women or marriage because they are similar. Make the ideas you are discussing clear. I would probably mention three themes and discuss them in detail, then relate it back to the question clearly.

This is what I'd do, but it's up to you.

I hope that helped.

 

[Beats]

Right. I don't know why i'm asking because it seems a little late to change.. but at least i'll know just how horrible a mark i'm in for... I'm doing, how the idea of the heroines growth to self knowledge, importance of marriage, and social class concepts change between texts. Where should i include all the stuff on medium etc?..and what is the stuff on medium etc?- is it just a comment on contemporary society that the film is fast-paced and uses crass colours , suggesting that modern audiences do not have the attention span or the subtlety that Austen's work demands? Could this be a separate paragraph? Please help! ...And i actually read emma!...twice

 

[tennille]

I would incorporate it within the paragraphs you write...you're pretty much going to write that same stuff as me. As you talk about each theme and mention narrative and film techniques, you mention the difference in mediums.

What they mean by medium is the difference in text types. One is a film, and the other is a prose fiction novel.

 

[jhakka]

Right. I don't know why i'm asking because it seems a little late to change.. but at least i'll know just how horrible a mark i'm in for... I'm doing, how the idea of the heroines growth to self knowledge, importance of marriage, and social class concepts change between texts. Where should i include all the stuff on medium etc?..and what is the stuff on medium etc?- is it just a comment on contemporary society that the film is fast-paced and uses crass colours , suggesting that modern audiences do not have the attention span or the subtlety that Austen's work demands? Could this be a separate paragraph? Please help! ...And i actually read emma!...twice

You should be using techniques, examples and quotes from both texts to back up your comments, so your comments about the techniques and text type should be there all the time.

 

[DaRanjed]

I'm so worried about this..

Shouldn't you choose similar themes between Emma and Clueless so you can compare ?

Themes like status: You can talk about what makes a person 'respectable' in Emma's society and compare to Cher's.

I'm confused...so we should choose themes that aren't similar bwteen the two texts?

 

[tennille]

That's what I plan to do. Most themes are similar, except status of women.

 

[laracroft]

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket emskii, but I think that Emma values a marriage which is a balance between love and economic advantage. I mean to say, the marriage between Elton and Augusta is frowned upon, because she is "as elegant as pearls and lace" could make her, and crass with her "Mr. E"s, but she has a rich pedigree. But, the marriage between Frank and Jane is criticised too; Mr. Weston says "there is one part of [his] conduct we cannot excuse" and Frank has to write and justify himself to Emma. So I think it values a balance. 'Clueless' is the same, because the Cher/Josh, Murray/Dionne and Tai/Travis matches are all a balance of love and money - even Murray drives the BMW convertible.

Sorry to criticise, but I think it's an important point.

i can see where you're comming from with the whole balance thing, but thats jsut what Austen wnated. Her characters that marry for love, in the end, always get what they deserve, so she wished that life would be so easy as to have a marraige with some1 who u love, and is wealthy....
but for 19th as a whole, the emphasis was on marraige almost purely for monetary gain and status...

 

[Beats]

just wondering - how could u manipulate this question to suit material on changes in social values...the transformation creates a new text that both reinforces and undermines responses to the old text."" Discuss with reference to yor texts.
Also, same with this question, "Receations of an existing text provide not only a new text but also a new reading of a prior text"- the second part of the question is a worry - i was counting on always being able to write stuff on values- any advice?

 

[tennille]

You can talk about values...in fact, you should always talk about values no matter what the question is. For the 2nd question you can mention how Clueless has enabled a clearer understanding of Emma; we are a 20th century society that relies on film more than novels and by watching Clueless, you can understand the values in Emma more which would never have been possible before watching Clueless. Also, you could mention that regardless of the difference in context, both texts explore similar values/issues and themes and therefore we could view Emma as a society that we can relate to which never would have happened prior to watching Clueless. Hence that can be a new reading of the text.

The 1st question is more of a discussion. You mention themes that are both similar and different. You could mention social status, which is similar, and then mention status of women, which is different. Don't forget to mention values.

 

[KungPow]

Komaticom: Do you mean Clueless?

And let me get this straight. Do we talk about themes or values? Or is it both? Or either (depending on the question)?

 

[frazzle]

I've always done it by themes, but the values come through in that, so don't fret too much. and answer the question.

 

[steph@nie]

i can see where you're comming from with the whole balance thing, but thats jsut what Austen wnated. Her characters that marry for love, in the end, always get what they deserve, so she wished that life would be so easy as to have a marraige with some1 who u love, and is wealthy....
but for 19th as a whole, the emphasis was on marraige almost purely for monetary gain and status...

Austen still focuses on the financial security that one gets from marriage- Miss Bates is looked down upon because she isn't married. By the match between Knightley and Emma she makes the statement that marrying a person of the same social class (and hence wealth) makes a sucessful marriage. Also, Knightley is an asexual character and that also shows that she belives that love doesn't make a sucessful marriage, and that marriage should be based upon reason and practicality. Same goes for Frank and Jane.

 

[littledrummer]

its going to be hard to write an essay that isnt goin to bore the markers... so many of us are doing it and there are only so many ideas to use, bummer! good luck everyone!
Not ready for this!
It will be over soon, yay!

 

[Komaticom]

its going to be hard to write an essay that isnt goin to bore the markers...

Not true...
There's a facet of the transformation that has been omitted by most previous candidates...
Give you a hint... relates to the fact that Cher thinks Bosnia is in the Middle East and Kuwait is in The Valley. If you find think this is an useful incorporation to your essay, feel free to rep.

 

[em276]

in regards to emma/clueless, just wondering, have any of you prepared critics views. my teacher and other teachers have said i need to put them in to up the marks. any idea where i could find them????
good luck in the hsc!!