If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong (2 Viewers)

[Generator]

We aren't athiests, and we are merely trying to question the arguments that have been presented, arguments that seem to suggest that a god's existence is essentially a known fact, the one entity that exists without a creator and that it exists beyond all that is.

Quite frankly, your post added nothing to the debate.

 

[SashatheMan]

so if god is eternal , what did he do all the time before he created the universe? why did he do it at this spedific time?

 

[rink]

im sure there r ppl on this thread who R athiests, theres nothing wrong with questioning the existence of god...i would encourage it, but to say that there is no god period without being open to the possibility of a god is ridiculous
and sasha didnt u read what i wrote, god isnt bound in time

anyway, im all for debating the existence of god coz it encourages logical thinking, as long as when someone comes to the truth they accept it. Im enjoying the debate with sepulchres and moonlight

 

[ks21]

Maybe all you people (athiests) should appreciate the positives that have come from religion.

Without religion society would be in a state of disorder, imagine a world of athiests, how can you systematically keep society in order, when everyone think they know everything. Atleast in this sense religion (believing in god), has helped the cause of human advancement from those ancient times.

What the hell, there might be no god, but you can't disprove it either, and you should accept the fact it has done good to this world for such a long time.

I suggest you quit while your ahead, or you might end up going nuts like all the people before you (athiests), who don't believe in god, and thus have a void in their reasoning about the creation of the universe. The universe just being created out of nothing ain't reasoning that would keep me satisfied if i were a athiest.

 

[erawamai]

im sure there r ppl on this thread who R athiests, theres nothing wrong with questioning the existence of god...i would encourage it, but to say that there is no god period without being open to the possibility of a god is ridiculous
and sasha didnt u read what i wrote, god isnt bound in time

anyway, im all for debating the existence of god coz it encourages logical thinking, as long as when someone comes to the truth they accept it. Im enjoying the debate with sepulchres and moonlight

If you believe in god you have faith because there is no outward proof of god. But if base your beliefs on things that can only be proved you would not believe in god and you would not have faith.

Faith is where there is nothing to prove it but you believe it anyways. Faith and questioning are not very compatiable. If you question too much you loose faith.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

im sure there r ppl on this thread who R athiests, theres nothing wrong with questioning the existence of god...i would encourage it, but to say that there is no god period without being open to the possibility of a god is ridiculous

I'll explain an atheist line of thought. It might make you realise why atheists can confidently believe that there is no God.

Do you believe in a flying pink elephant? No. Why not?

Because, considering the exceptional claim being made, you've never, ever encountered a flying pink elephant before, you have no evidence of such a thing. For a lot of atheists, believing in God is something that is very similar. Their default position is that they must be shown for this thing to exist before they start re-arranging their lives around it.

I'm sure if I told you I saw a UFO last night, you'd want some evidence. Until I provided you with such evidence your default view would be that there was none.

and sasha didnt u read what i wrote, god isnt bound in time

u athiests are always on about how god has to have been created and what not.....u need to understand that god is the CREATOR of relative physics, he created time, matter and space......therefore, he cannot be bound by something he created

1. What caused God, again.

You still face a blatant contradiction. You say that 'everything that exists has a cause'. So, if God exists, therefore God must have a cause. Your only way around this has been to change the premise to:

"Everything that exists has a cause, except God."

There is no reason to believe this premise. Firstly it begs the question and secondly it does not actually explain anything.

Begging the question -- It does not answer the question to say "God is infinite/outside of the universe and the rules do not apply". You are trying to prove that God exists. You cannot rely on the premise that "God is infinite, outside of time, etc" as part of your premises -- that is circular reasoning. It presupposes what you are trying to prove (ie. that there is a God).

Doesn't explain -- Not only that, but it does not answer the question - it does not actually explain anything at all. It's the same as saying "its magic".


2. Inconsistent reasoning.

Again you make a fallacy of begging the question, but I'll ignore that for now. Putting aside that obvious problem, you say that:

1. God created relative physics, he created time, matter and space.
2. Everything that exists has a cause.
3. The universe exists.
4. Therefore the universe must have had a cause.
5. That cause was God.

But if God created the laws of physics, time, matter, space, etc, then before the universe came into existence the laws of physics, etc did not apply. Hence at that point in time, everything did not necessarily need a cause. Thus, by your reasoning the universe did not actually need a cause.


3. Implausibility.

Why did God take 15 billion years to create the universe as we know it today? Maybe this God is a little slow?

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

have u ever thought that the human mind is limited. we just cant understand some things. it seems illogical to us on this earth as we always obey the rules of this earth. but out of this earth, there are different laws.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Maybe all you people (athiests) should appreciate the positives that have come from religion.

You mean like war, oppression, abuse, discrimination, ignorance, inhibition of truth/science?

Even if we do appreciate the good parts of religion (which I do), such as comfort, modern day values of love and sharing (for the most part), etc -- I don't see how that is relevant to our understanding of whether God exists or not.

Without religion society would be in a state of disorder, imagine a world of athiests, how can you systematically keep society in order, when everyone think they know everything. Atleast in this sense religion (believing in god), has helped the cause of human advancement from those ancient times.

Highly improbable. Besides which, whatever good it once had we no longer need it. Welcome to humanism. Reason and compassion are the best guides to ensuring human happiness. More info.

What the hell, there might be no god, but you can't disprove it either, and you should accept the fact it has done good to this world for such a long time.

It has caused great harm as well. Would you prefer to be comfortable but blind to the truth? It is perfectly understandable. "Ignorance is bliss" is the attitude that you espouse. I know a lot of people who stick to that mantra. But personally I prefer truth.

I suggest you quit while your ahead, or you might end up going nuts like all the people before you (athiests), who don't believe in god,

No idea who you're referring to there.

and thus have a void in their reasoning about the creation of the universe.

1. Unlike some we are quite comfortable with currently not being able to know everything.

2. You assume that humans have the capacity to understand everything.

3. Religion does not actually explain the origins of the universe anyway.

The universe just being created out of nothing ain't reasoning that would keep me satisfied if i were a athiest.

It's more plausible as saying it was a supernatural being who is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving [a contradiction], who created everything but who is outside of time and the laws of physics, who took 15 billion years to set up the universe the way it is today, and who we have no evidence whatsoever of. Don't you see? You're replacing one unknown with another unknown.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

have u ever thought that the human mind is limited. we just cant understand some things. it seems illogical to us on this earth as we always obey the rules of this earth. but out of this earth, there are different laws.

Perhaps (though irrelevant one a sense, considering the material results we can observe) but that does not in any way whatsoever support the existence of God.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Without religion society would be in a state of disorder, imagine a world of athiests, how can you systematically keep society in order, when everyone think they know everything. Atleast in this sense religion (believing in god), has helped the cause of human advancement from those ancient times.

Atheists aren't the people who are claiming they have all the answers, it is theists, and atheists challenge this. I do not buy the argument that religion has helped, because I believe it is very likely that those who do good (or bad) in the name of religion would do it without the religion. Also, if god does not exists... think of all the time/resources/money we have spent worshipping nothing.

have u ever thought that the human mind is limited. we just cant understand some things. it seems illogical to us on this earth as we always obey the rules of this earth. but out of this earth, there are different laws.

That's possible, but even if the human mind is limited that's no reason to believe.

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

ur trying to find evidence to support the existence of God?? I Promise you. you will never find any evidence. If God exists you wont find evidence. If he doesnt exist you wont find evidence. Religion is not about the evidence. the whole point is u dont need evidence.

This means one must make there own choice. think about that. if there was evidence one is being given a path, theres no choice involved. i see god therefore i believe. Its up to u to make a choice. thats why theres life.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

ur trying to find evidence to support the existence of God?? I Promise you. you will never find any evidence. If God exists you wont find evidence. If he doesnt exist you wont find evidence. Religion is not about the evidence. the whole point is u dont need evidence.

This means one must make there own choice. think about that. if there was evidence one is being given a path, theres no choice involved. i see god therefore i believe. Its up to u to make a choice. thats why theres life.

If there is no evidence, then there is no reason to believe in it.

Do you believe that I was abducted by a UFO last night? No. You would not believe me without evidence.

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

ok then dont believe it. youll never believe it. theres no evidence in God. therefore u youll never believe in God. faith isnt in ur vocab. if u think like that youll have a miserable life.

i bet ur adopted moon guy. i guess youll be wanting photos of ur mum giving birth to you. OH . u want a photo of god giving birth to you?

 

[JamacaMan]

The belief in God has little to do with how the universe was created; the main concern is why it was created. The book of Genisis is written in a poetic way, not to give a physical account of how the universe came into existence but to make clear why the universe came into existence. Science and religon are by no means opposed to each other; the Bible tells us that God created the universe and science explains some of the processes that may have been involved. I don't see why the fact the universe has been around for billions of years is of importance; if God is outside of time then time is no limit and a day or a year or thousands of years makes little difference to Him.
The pain and suffering all over the world is seen by many as proof that God doesn't exist; however, if there is no chance of an after-life, if this world is all there is, then there can be no meaning found in such pain. The Bible tells us that human corruption and sin bought suffering into the world; the fact that we are given free-will means that we are free to do either evil or good to our brothers and sisters. If we had no choice between good and evil there would be no suffering but we would be little more than robots. The suffering as a result of sin, such as greed causing starvation of children all though Africa, can only be justified if there in some afterlife; I cannot see how meaning can be found without such a concept. Our own humanity, our knowledge of right and wrong, tells us that there must be more. Cheers.

 

[erawamai]

Do you believe that I was abducted by a UFO last night? No. You would not believe me without evidence.

OMG you got abducted by a UFO!?

The belief in God has little to do with how the universe was created; the main concern is why it was created. The book of Genisis is written in a poetic way, not to give a physical account of how the universe came into existence but to make clear why the universe came into existence. Science and religon are by no means opposed to each other; the Bible tells us that God created the universe and science explains some of the processes that may have been involved. I don't see why the fact the universe has been around for billions of years is of importance; if God is outside of time then time is no limit and a day or a year or thousands of years makes little difference to Him.

The pain and suffering all over the world is seen by many as proof that God doesn't exist; however, if there is no chance of an after-life, if this world is all there is, then there can be no meaning found in such pain. The Bible tells us that human corruption and sin bought suffering into the world; the fact that we are given free-will means that we are free to do either evil or good to our brothers and sisters. If we had no choice between good and evil there would be no suffering but we would be little more than robots. The suffering as a result of sin, such as greed causing starvation of children all though Africa, can only be justified if there in some afterlife; I cannot see how meaning can be found without such a concept. Our own humanity, our knowledge of right and wrong, tells us that there must be more. Cheers.

What on earth was that?

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

wat on earth?? that was out of this world man

 

[zahid]

The belief in God has little to do with how the universe was created; the main concern is why it was created. The book of Genisis is written in a poetic way, not to give a physical account of how the universe came into existence but to make clear why the universe came into existence. Science and religon are by no means opposed to each other; the Bible tells us that God created the universe and science explains some of the processes that may have been involved. I don't see why the fact the universe has been around for billions of years is of importance; if God is outside of time then time is no limit and a day or a year or thousands of years makes little difference to Him.
The pain and suffering all over the world is seen by many as proof that God doesn't exist; however, if there is no chance of an after-life, if this world is all there is, then there can be no meaning found in such pain. The Bible tells us that human corruption and sin bought suffering into the world; the fact that we are given free-will means that we are free to do either evil or good to our brothers and sisters. If we had no choice between good and evil there would be no suffering but we would be little more than robots. The suffering as a result of sin, such as greed causing starvation of children all though Africa, can only be justified if there in some afterlife; I cannot see how meaning can be found without such a concept. Our own humanity, our knowledge of right and wrong, tells us that there must be more. Cheers.

Praise the Lord.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

ok then dont believe it. youll never believe it. theres no evidence in God. therefore u youll never believe in God. faith isnt in ur vocab. if u think like that youll have a miserable life.

In other words, you have no response to my argument.

Additionally, as I have repeatedly said, faith means belief without logical proof or material evidence. You would not believe in a UFO without evidence right? The same goes for God.

i bet ur adopted moon guy. i guess youll be wanting photos of ur mum giving birth to you. OH . u want a photo of god giving birth to you?

Worst analogy ever. The proof of my parents having given birth to me and the proof for a supreme being that created the universe are obviously completely unrelated and disparate arguments.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

The belief in God has little to do with how the universe was created; the main concern is why it was created. The book of Genisis is written in a poetic way, not to give a physical account of how the universe came into existence but to make clear why the universe came into existence. Science and religon are by no means opposed to each other; the Bible tells us that God created the universe and science explains some of the processes that may have been involved. I don't see why the fact the universe has been around for billions of years is of importance; if God is outside of time then time is no limit and a day or a year or thousands of years makes little difference to Him.
The pain and suffering all over the world is seen by many as proof that God doesn't exist; however, if there is no chance of an after-life, if this world is all there is, then there can be no meaning found in such pain. The Bible tells us that human corruption and sin bought suffering into the world; the fact that we are given free-will means that we are free to do either evil or good to our brothers and sisters. If we had no choice between good and evil there would be no suffering but we would be little more than robots. The suffering as a result of sin, such as greed causing starvation of children all though Africa, can only be justified if there in some afterlife; I cannot see how meaning can be found without such a concept. Our own humanity, our knowledge of right and wrong, tells us that there must be more. Cheers.

Um, humans do not cause earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tornados, volcanoes and tsunamis.

 

[StGeorgeDragons]

In other words, you have no response to my argument.

Additionally, as I have repeatedly said, faith means belief without logical proof or material evidence. You would not believe in a UFO without evidence right? The same goes for God.
Worst analogy ever. The proof of my parents having given birth to me and the proof for a supreme being that created the universe are obviously completely unrelated and disparate arguments.

no actually, if u only believe something u can see, then technically u dont believe u have been born. and therefore u do not exist. so go away.

And i dont have faith in UFO's. i have faith in God.