If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

But just think about it, if what you believe in doesnt answer every question, why do you believe in it?

What I believe in does answer every question, there is a logical 'naturalistic' and scientific explanation to everything. Just because we have not currently worked out this answer is no reason not to follow logic. It's much like when you don't understand an answer on a math test, you don't look to the bible for the answer, you will try to work out what the objective answer is.

edit: I believe her argument is "The universe is so perfectly complex, and works so well, so naturalistic/scientific theories cannot explain it", this comes from the common misconception that evolution works like a tornado going through a metal yard and making a 747".

 

[hipPo3]

And just a point for the people who believe that the people of Iraq should be happy with thier lives. Why dont u try to imagine your being killed 'accidently' by soldiers, your mothers and sisters getting raped, living in fear every single day of your lives. The Americans have no right to simply invade thier country with no basis at all, it it blatantly obvious that oil and control of the middle east was thier aim. Don't you all remember that it was the WMD's that they enetered there for, not to get rid of Saddam or help the people, it was so they can ensure they had total world power that no one can danger.

Bush did it to fund him self via his company, he's stealing from the american poeple and putting the money in his pocket (just like his father), that's why America will economically go down... I dont think that was part of this arguement .. arent we talking about God not existing?

The belief in God is all subjective, poeple use God to answer miracles or questions they need answers to. I dont think there ever was evidence on the existance of God .. or the only evidence is through folk tale or heresay. The bible cannot be used as evidence in the existance of god.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Bush did it to fund him self via his company, he's stealing from the american poeple and putting the money in his pocket (just like his father), that's why America will economically go down...

Unless bush is stealing 300 billion dollars or something, he won't ruin their economy.

 

[gerhard]

see, ive always thought the other way around about arrogance.

Ive always thought that it was incredibly arrogant to believe in god, to believe that you're somehow this 'special' being, who gets to go to heaven, and that this universe has been created for humans alone.

To think that we are all just a random chance event is not arrogant, its incredibly humbling.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I will answer a few arguments that are half-way attempted --

But just think about it, if what you believe in doesnt answer every question, why do you believe in it?

1. That is very bad logic.

Simply because we do not understand something does not call for the adoption of a fantastical belief that does not actually explain anything at all. This is your argument:

1. There are things that remain unanswered.
2. The concept of God answers those questions.
3. There must be a God.

The argument is logically invalid. Premise 3 does not necessarily follow from Premises 1 & 2. Allow me to demonstrate:

1. I do not know where my socks have gone.
2. The concept of a spider living under my bed that drags my socks away answers that question.
3. There must be a spider living under my bed that drags my socks away.

Your argument is even worse because your Premise 2 is false. God does not answer those questions at all. It only accommodates – it doesn’t actually explain anything. An explanation tells us why something is one way and not another way. But a theory that accommodates anything explains nothing because it doesn’t exclude any possibilities. Accommodating all possibilities makes a theory worthless.

(Not only that, the God version is worse even further because it relates to the supernatural – in contrast at least spiders exist and a spider dragging away socks are physically possible, though very unlikely.)


2. We don’t know some things.

In contrast to the ego of some, we are prepared to admit that there are things that still remain unexplained in human knowledge. With every day that goes by science makes further progress to boost that understanding.


3. Bad assumption.

You assume humans have the capacity to understand everything in the universe.


4. Apply your own reasoning.

The exact same thing can be said about religion. There are many, many questions that religion cannot answer, for example "Where did God come from?" So why do you believe in it?


5. Our beliefs have answered our questions, thus far.

Reason and science has not only answered our questions so far, but it has produced material illustrations of its success. Look around at everything you see - the complex workings of machinery, the computer circuitry and the electricity that powers our society. Our civilisation has advanced through the application of reason and it has proven results. It lets us attain truth and understanding. Religion does none of this.

 

[Sepulchres]

I see. So your argument is:

1. Stuff exists.
2. Therefore, God exists.

Very convincing!

And please do not say that "faith" is evidence. Faith means belief in something without evidence.

I love it how you try to simplify arguements but miss the point completely. Let me help you:

1) Stuff exists
2) Therefore it must have been created.
3) So, mono/ploytheistic religions relate creationism as an act of God rather than what Darwin has put forward.

And I did not say faith was evidence but it is something which religion builds its evidence upon. ie. If you do not have faith, you'll find it difficult to believe in religion, whichever it may be.

 

[zahid]

I love it how you try to simplify arguements but miss the point completely. Let me help you:

1) Stuff exists
2) Therefore it must have been created.
3) So, mono/ploytheistic religions relate creationism as an act of God rather than what Darwin has put forward.

sorry moon... but I think sepulchres got you there.

 

[SashatheMan]

What amazes me is how people prey for somthing from the help of god. and if events unfold that evensomething occur that they praid for, they say god exists and that he has saved me, or healed me etc.
However when a person prays and nothing happens (majority of the time), those people dont use reverse logic and say well god doesnt exist cuase he didnt help me. They say sometihng along the line of, "god will come and save me soon" or "god will help my problem if i continue praying". But most of the times even with those prayer the person may never heal , or get better and that persons prayer wont be answered. Then those people say " god intended it to happen this way".

so basicaly those peoples logic is what ever happens god intended it to happen even though they asked for a totally differnt conclusion.

theres alot of who are born who suffer from illnesses or poor living conditions. majority are people who never done anytihng sinful. And they are told "prey and god will help you."
if god does exist and he helps those misfortunate. Why doesnt god prevent this before hand, instead repairing , after the damage has been done. If he can do anytihng, why does he let innocent people suffer and then maybe from a preyer they can be saved.

It just seems that believers rely on God as a way cushining then selves from what might happen to them in real life. even though that help usually never comes

 

[Not-That-Bright]

1) Stuff exists
2) Therefore it must have been created.
3) So, mono/ploytheistic religions relate creationism as an act of God rather than what Darwin has put forward.

1) God exists
2) Therefore he must have been created.

 

[hipPo3]

1) God exists
2) Therefore he must have been created.

lol pwn3d sepulchres ...

But still sepulchres has a piont, faith is a reason for belief which leads to using thier beliefs as thier evidence.

 

[SashatheMan]

if god created everything. Why did he go by a system of 7 days , isnt it only relevant on earth due to the amount of time a day is measured in. and why did god rest on the seventh day. what did he have to do on the 8th day and 9th ect. didnt he finish creating everything.
and who in the bible actually talks of god creating everything in 7 days. how does he know , did god whhisper it to him, in a trip enduced from smoking some poppy seeds?

 

[gerhard]

But still sepulchres has a piont, faith is a reason for belief which leads to using thier beliefs as thier evidence.

faith is a reason to believe something but what reason do you have to have faith? you cant have a reason, because its faith. its very definition states that it is not a concept that we cant understand through reason.

most religious folks have no problem with this. but they get pissed off if you say that their belief is illogical, which is pretty much what is just said above (as reason and logic go hand in hand), just in different words.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

moses after a trip into the poppy fields.

 

[hipPo3]

if god created everything. Why did he go by a system of 7 days , isnt it only relevant on earth due to the amount of time a day is measured in. and why did god rest on the seventh day. what did he have to do on the 8th day and 9th ect. didnt he finish creating everything.
and who in the bible actually talks of god creating everything in 7 days. how does he know , did god whhisper it to him, in a trip enduced from smoking some poppy seeds?

Thats just a myth .. every religion has thier own "Myth of Creation"
For Hindus, its just the Brahma, Shiva and Vishnuu Cycle ..
For Athiests its the Big Bang

so on and so forth .. its a common practise for religion to have thier own views on creation.

 

[SashatheMan]

lol pwn3d sepulchres ...

But still sepulchres has a piont, faith is a reason for belief which leads to using thier beliefs as thier evidence.

if faith gives reason for belief. do people who believe that faeries and gnomes are real stand on the same level?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Atheists do not strongly believe in the big bang, it is not a part of the 'atheist' religion (atheism is not a religion), it is one of the theories atheists use to present a possible alternative to creationism, but I don't believe many atheists will claim the big bang is the truth.

 

[gerhard]

yeah, because the big bang isnt a scientifically validated fact.

you can believe in god all you want, but to deny the big band is kind of embarressing. do you believe the earth is only 6,000 years old too?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

yeah, because the big bang isnt a scientifically validated fact.

you can believe in god all you want, but to deny the big band is kind of embarressing. do you believe the earth is only 6,000 years old too?

yeah, because the big bang isnt a scientifically validated fact.

This is used by theists alot to downplay alot of theories, they don't seem to have a real grasp of what a scientific theory is, and do not realise that there are no 'facts'.

 

[gerhard]

conclusion = people are stupid

 

[hipPo3]

doesnt faith = belief ?

conclusion = people are stupid

no .. just most poeple.