How good to u have to be to pass law? (1 Viewer)

[~ ReNcH ~]

Indeedy. My lowest is 65. My Highest is 83.

I've also seem some wild marking in some law subjects.

People who, in my opinion, are of similar ability, with marks that differ by up to 25. As in people getting 55 and others getting 80. When you KNOW that their ability is NOT THAT FAR apart.

And so there's nothing actually done to prevent discrepancies like that? How can you possibly get HDs and uni medals etc. if the marking system is so fickle? In other words, getting high marks is about 75% skill with about 25% luck?

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

Btw. you know how some people said that you can just enrol in one lecturer's classes but attend someone else's?...with Law, aren't you in a small tutorial class for all contact periods anyway? If so, how could you possibly "sneak" into a lecture you're not enrolled into?

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

Yeah some people do that. Just go to that class. Usually the popular teacher will have full classes (40 people) x 2 or 3 classes. Often the teacher will not be bothered to mark the role or he/she wont even notice you.

Do you get kicked out if they do take the role?
So I guess there's no real set "timetable" that you have to follow at uni is there? You can virtually just rock up to any lecture or tutorial, even if they aren't officially on your timetable...

 

[04er]

Do you get kicked out if they do take the role?

Yes, unless you have an acceptable excuse (I've changed my timetable, I missed my allocated tute this week etc)

So I guess there's no real set "timetable" that you have to follow at uni is there?

not entirely...

You can virtually just rock up to any lecture or tutorial, even if they aren't officially on your timetable...

lol not as a full-time habit... some tutes have minimum attendance requirements, participation can be assessed, some subjects require group work as part of their assessments (e.g. a presentation) and so on. So if you're not on the role in those classes, you can't really just rock up to any tute every week otherwise your grades will be affected. But with lectures you definitely can.

 

[04er]

Law is indeed a good complement for commerce. But is it worth it if you're going to get poor grades? Probably not. You will still need to devote some time to law, so you'll drag commerce down. That means you're getting passes/credits in both degrees. Okay... but nothing spectacular. Doesn't separate you out from the average unis.

If you were applying for ACCOUNTING in Big 4, then I think you can get by. Corporate Finance, probably not. I'm sure if you wanted to get into Investment Banking, poor law marks will make that nearly impossible. Areas of law such as 'Contract Law', 'Tort Law', 'Equity', 'Property Law' are things that commerce and consultancy firms do look at a bit.. and they are very useful just as skills for the rest of your life.

Having said that... is it actually hard to get credits and distinctions? Not really. I've seen people get by pretty easily. Marking in law is pretty random. If your UAI gets you into law, I'm sure you will get credits/distinctions if you put the effort in.

I actually agree with that

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

I actually agree with that

So at USyd doing Com/Law, have you found that the workload has been quite heavy i.e. in having to manage both Commerce and Law?

 

[04er]

So at USyd doing Com/Law, have you found that the workload has been quite heavy i.e. in having to manage both Commerce and Law?

well last semester i found the workload heavy due to the amount of reading for law. This semester it's commerce that is giving me a hard time... so much friggen information to absorb whereas Law seems like a breeze with only some principles from cases to remember every week (which are usually logical anyway). Plus we can bring our notes into the law exams.

But yeah, the workload has been quite heavy (heavier than year 12) because I'm trying to improve my poor grades from last semester (where I studied for commerce only when an assessment forced me to).

EDIT: But I don't think that the workload is heavy as a result of having two degrees to manage at the same time - at usyd we do the same number of hours as people who do commerce by itself (not sure about unsw). And the number of subjects per semester is also the same. So there really isn't THAT much difference in my opinion.

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

EDIT: But I don't think that the workload is heavy as a result of having two degrees to manage at the same time - at usyd we do the same number of hours as people who do commerce by itself (not sure about unsw). And the number of subjects per semester is also the same. So there really isn't THAT much difference in my opinion.

How do you manage to fit in two degrees in the same amount of time without diluting one course or both? I understand that at UNSW you can only do a single Commerce major and that at USyd you can only do an Accting/Fin double major or a single major come 2nd year. But in 1st year, isn't the Commerce content common to every student regardless of whether they're doing a double degree, single degree or a single or double major in 2nd year?

So in your opinion there wouldn't be a great difference between the workload in a straight BCom and the workload in a BCom/LLB?

 

[04er]

How do you manage to fit in two degrees in the same amount of time without diluting one course or both? I understand that at UNSW you can only do a single Commerce major and that at USyd you can only do an Accting/Fin double major or a single major come 2nd year.

Yes they do dilute the Commerce degree. I *think* this is how it's done... for B.Commerce you normally do a total of 144 credit points over 3 years while with BCom/LLB you also do a total of 144 credit points over 3 years, but with only 96 credit points from the Faculty of Economics and Business and 48 credit points from the Faculty of Law. So in that way your B.Com degree has less credit points then it would outside of a combined degree program.

But in 1st year, isn't the Commerce content common to every student regardless of whether they're doing a double degree, single degree or a single or double major in 2nd year?

Yes - if the single degree students choose to only do 1st year compulsory units of study. But normally B.Com students choose to do an extra unit of study from the faculty of Economics and Business for both semesters in 1st year. So after 1st year most B.Com students have completed 2 extra units for their B.Com when compared to combined students.

So in your opinion there wouldn't be a great difference between the workload in a straight BCom and the workload in a BCom/LLB?

No i don't think the difference is that great for 1st year students. Not sure about the later years though.

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

Yes - if the single degree students choose to only do 1st year compulsory units of study. But normally B.Com students choose to do an extra unit of study from the faculty of Economics and Business for both semesters in 1st year. So after 1st year most B.Com students have completed 2 extra units for their B.Com when compared to combined students.

I think I read about these 2 additional units on the UNSW or USyd website. Are these the 1st year electives where they advise that you select a unit that is related to the major or co-majors that you're going to do in 2nd year? I remember reading something about selecting a subject that will assist you in your specialisation in 2nd year, but I'm not sure if this is what it refers to.

So in some ways, double degree students are slightly disadvantaged by the inability to take up the additional 2 units of study?

 

[Omnidragon]

I think if I were to do straight commerce I'd have a substantially lighter workload in 1st and 2nd years. Some early law subjects, such as contracts and torts, required a bit of reading. Criminal law was a joke. I did no reading and got straight HDs.

I find commerce very easy. In my first year, I skipped nearly all my lectures and attended around 80% of my tutes and got HDs or high Ds. All you have to do is memorise a few formulae and a few principles. BTW, I specialise in Accounting/Finance.

However, it does get harder in 3rd year. There's a lot more to learn - and 3rd year finance subjects on investments (shares, bonds etc) are actually mathematically challenging. 3rd year accounting requires a fair bit of reading - I'd say as much as law subjects like contracts. But definitely not on par with constitutional law. But the thing is... if you are good at maths, you'll be fine with finance. If you're good with memory work, you'll get through accounting.

But with law, there's always more and more reading to be done. And the judgments are so bloody confusing...

You shouldn't be so worried about it. If you do get into Comm/Law, you'll get by... presumably if you got into it you're a high performer. Therefore, you should maintain pretty good standards (credits, distinctions). One thing to be aware of is that it's a lot harder to get 90s in uni. In fact, it's hardish to get 80s. So don't be too disappointed if you're grades fall back to 70s.

Also... Comm/Law isn't the be-all-and-end-all degree. Comm/Engineering is also looked upon very highly to the extent that if you get good marks, there's no difference as far as looking for a commerce job goes. I know a few Comm/Eng people who got into those IB or consultancy graduate positions...

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

I think if I were to do straight commerce I'd have a substantially lighter workload in 1st and 2nd years. Some early law subjects, such as contracts and torts, required a bit of reading. Criminal law was a joke. I did no reading and got straight HDs.

I find commerce very easy. In my first year, I skipped nearly all my lectures and attended around 80% of my tutes and got HDs or high Ds. All you have to do is memorise a few formulae and a few principles. BTW, I specialise in Accounting/Finance.

However, it does get harder in 3rd year. There's a lot more to learn - and 3rd year finance subjects on investments (shares, bonds etc) are actually mathematically challenging. 3rd year accounting requires a fair bit of reading - I'd say as much as law subjects like contracts. But definitely not on par with constitutional law. But the thing is... if you are good at maths, you'll be fine with finance. If you're good with memory work, you'll get through accounting.

But with law, there's always more and more reading to be done. And the judgments are so bloody confusing...

You shouldn't be so worried about it. If you do get into Comm/Law, you'll get by... presumably if you got into it you're a high performer. Therefore, you should maintain pretty good standards (credits, distinctions). One thing to be aware of is that it's a lot harder to get 90s in uni. In fact, it's hardish to get 80s. So don't be too disappointed if you're grades fall back to 70s.

Also... Comm/Law isn't the be-all-and-end-all degree. Comm/Engineering is also looked upon very highly to the extent that if you get good marks, there's no difference as far as looking for a commerce job goes. I know a few Comm/Eng people who got into those IB or consultancy graduate positions...

Do you mind if I ask what subjects you did in the HSC? Would you say that doing Economics, Business Studies and/or Legal Studies would help with Commerce and/or Law, even if it is only in the initial foundations of each course? I enjoy maths, so hopefully I can get through finance and luckily, my memory isn't too bad either

I really enjoy Eco and Business now and I have a keen interest in Commerce, so I'm hoping that that will make it somewhat easier to study for Commerce subjects. However, I'm still unsure about Law - the time required, the reading, the workload etc...but I know that it's probably necessary to take on an additional degree to remain competitive in the commercial job market.

I wanted to continue studying maths and possibly chemistry, but none of the engineering courses really appealed to me. As far as I can tell, Com/Eng is more for engineers who want a commerce background as opposed to the other way around...which is why I'm hesitant about doing that double major.

Btw. Omnidragon, I assume that you're studying at USyd or a uni other than UNSW since UNSW doesn't offer a double major when combining Com with Law.

Edit: 85=HD, 75=D, 65=C, 50=P, <50=F - am I correct?

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

the unsw people will vouch for the alternative. Crim at unsw is heavy reading.

Do you actually have to enjoy reading to get through Law? Or is the content such that even avid readers will find judgements both confusing and boring?

 

[04er]

Judgements are pretty easy once you get used to them.

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One thing that UNSW does is that it does TWO sessions of

1. Criminal law

2. Property

3. Contracts

4. Litigation

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umel only does one session of property...one session of crim...one session of contracts....one session of litigation.

------------

Not sure about usyd? Anyone want to tell everyone about usyd law and their course structure?

what do you mean by 'session'?

 

[§eraphim]

Law School Parent & Student Information Evening
Area: Faculty of Law
Tue Aug 23, 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM

Location: The Scientia, UNSW
Description: The Law School is hosting an information evening for parents and prospective law students in Year 11 or Year 12 to answer questions regarding law careers and courses.
This event is open to: Other
The number of seats available is: 180
Cost:
Other information: Year 11 & Year 12 Students and their Parents

Elissa McBain Tel: (02) 9385 1519
Fax: (02) 9385 1175
e.mcbain@unsw.edu.au
More information can be found http://www.law.unsw.edu.au

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

Thanks Seraphim
I might just go to that next week. Hopefully it will give me a better understanding of what I'd be up against if I were to do Law next year.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I went to that in yr 11. They just feed your parents expensive finger food and champers. You will be impressed! Well I was at the time!

Hmm

maybe I can adopt a first year and go along

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

I went to that in yr 11. They just feed your parents expensive finger food and champers. You will be impressed! Well I was at the time!

Hehe...lol.
Oh well, then I guess the free food will pay for the Eastern Distributor toll

 

[~ ReNcH ~]

Btw. seeing as in final year you get to choose your law electives, does this make it easier to study for? If I reach Year 5, then I'd probably choose things like the Law of Banking, Financial Law etc. Even though there'd still be a lot of reading, is there anyone here who found 1st year Law content (or the 1st 3 years of a combined degree) dry, but then found final year to be much better?

 

[04er]

Btw. seeing as in final year you get to choose your law electives, does this make it easier to study for? If I reach Year 5, then I'd probably choose things like the Law of Banking, Financial Law etc. Even though there'd still be a lot of reading, is there anyone here who found 1st year Law content (or the 1st 3 years of a combined degree) dry, but then found final year to be much better?

i don't find 1st year dry... well, not torts anyway in my opinion commerce is much drier than torts in every way imaginable. I hope later law subjects are like torts.