how exactly will moderation work in this scenario? (2 Viewers)

[zizi2003_]

so throughout the year my marks for eng were ok except for my online trial which brought my rank down by a considerable amount
so if i did better in my hsc (say high 80s or possibly even touch a 90), how will they moderate my english internals (which is somewhere in the low 80s) ? or will my exam mark be reduced to align with my internal rank ??

 

[jimmysmith560]

Your Examination Mark does not get reduced/affected in a way to "align" with your internal rank. That would be unfair to you as it would likely reduce your HSC mark (final mark) for English. Your Examination Mark is the result of your own performance in the English HSC exam and is subject to the process of alignment. It is not affected by factors such as your rank relative to your cohort or your school rank.

Considering that your internal performance (i.e. your performance in your school-based assessment tasks/exams) has somewhat deteriorated due to unfavourable performance in your online trial exam, your final rank will be negatively impacted by this, which could result in a potentially lower Assessment Mark than what would have otherwise been achievable had you performed better in your trial exam, which would have in turn possibly resulted in a higher rank.

To answer your question, your Assessment Mark will be moderated using the Examination Mark that is equivalent to your rank. In the case of ranks other than first/last, your Assessment Mark will not be made equal to its equivalent Examination Mark, although it will end up being similar. Assuming that you end up performing better in the HSC exam than you did in your school-based assessment tasks/exams, it is unlikely that your Assessment Mark will be adjusted using your own Examination Mark. Instead, it would be used to determine the Assessment Mark of another student who likely ranked higher than you internally.

I hope this helps!

 

[zizi2003_]

Your Examination Mark does not get reduced/affected in a way to "align" with your internal rank. That would be unfair as it would likely reduce your HSC mark (final mark) for English. Your Examination Mark is the result of your own performance in the English HSC exam and is subject to the process of alignment. It is not affected by factors such as your rank relative to your cohort or your school rank.

Considering that your internal performance (i.e. your performance in your school-based assessment tasks/exams) has somewhat deteriorated due to unfavourable performance in your online trial exam, your final rank will be negatively impacted by this, which could result in a potentially lower Assessment Mark than what would have otherwise been achievable had you performed better in your trial exam, which would have in turn possibly resulted in a higher rank.

To answer your question, your Assessment Mark will be moderated using the Examination Mark that is equivalent to your rank. In the case of ranks other than first/last, your Assessment Mark will not be made equal to its equivalent Examination Mark, although it will end up being similar. Assuming that you end up performing better in the HSC exam than you did in your school-based assessment tasks/exams, it is unlikely that your Assessment Mark will be adjusted using your own Examination Mark. Instead, it would be used to determine the Assessment Mark of another student who likely ranked higher than you internally.

I hope this helps!

so, hypothetically speaking, what if someone in my grade gets a 70% in the hsc exam and is equivalent to my internal rank, but i end up getting 90% in the exam.
does this mean my internal mark will be around 70 whilst my exam mark will remain 90?
how will this discrepancy be sorted and how is this fair (given i did better in my internals than the person who got an exam mark of 70% equivalent to my rank)

 

[jimmysmith560]

so, hypothetically speaking, what if someone in my grade gets a 70% in english and is equivalent to my internal rank, but i end up getting 90% in the exam.
does this mean my internal mark will be around 70 whilst my exam mark will remain 90?
how will this discrepancy be sorted and how is this fair (given i did better in my internals than the person who got an exam mark of 70% equivalent to my rank)

In the event where the student whose Examination Mark is equivalent to your internal rank performs at a substandard level, NESA will ensure you are not affected by this, especially if your own Examination Mark is favourable. It is unclear as to how exactly NESA does this (as opposed to the general moderation process which is a rather simple process), although they state that they have "tried-and-true processes to make sure that no one is disadvantaged if this happens".

 

[zizi2003_]

In the event where the student whose Examination Mark is equivalent to your internal rank performs at a substandard level, NESA will ensure you are not affected by this, especially if your own Examination Mark is favourable. It is unclear as to how exactly NESA does this (as opposed to the general moderation process which is a rather simple process), although they state that they have "tried-and-true processes to make sure that no one is disadvantaged if this happens".

aaaahhh okay okay, hopefully that's what they do.. thank you!!!

 

[Life'sHard]

In the event where the student whose Examination Mark is equivalent to your internal rank performs at a substandard level, NESA will ensure you are not affected by this, especially if your own Examination Mark is favourable. It is unclear as to how exactly NESA does this (as opposed to the general moderation process which is a rather simple process), although they state that they have "tried-and-true processes to make sure that no one is disadvantaged if this happens".

Oh wow I always wondered how they would account for this discrepancy. Thanks Jimmy.

 

[JacktheChristian]

In the event where the student whose Examination Mark is equivalent to your internal rank performs at a substandard level, NESA will ensure you are not affected by this, especially if your own Examination Mark is favourable. It is unclear as to how exactly NESA does this (as opposed to the general moderation process which is a rather simple process), although they state that they have "tried-and-true processes to make sure that no one is disadvantaged if this happens".

So what happens if its the other war around? If Kid 1's internal is 90 and Kid 2's internal is 85 but Kid 2 gets 90 in external and Kid 1 gets 85 in external. Would they boost up Kid 1's external mark?

 

[jimmysmith560]

So what happens if its the other war around? If Kid 1's internal is 90 and Kid 2's internal is 85 but Kid 2 gets 90 in external and Kid 1 gets 85 in external. Would they boost up Kid 1's external mark?

The internal mark (the technical term for which is the Assessment Mark) will be boosted up, not the external mark. As I mentioned above, the external mark (the technical term for which is the Examination Mark) is the result of your own performance in the HSC exam of a particular subject and is subject to the process of alignment. It is not affected by factors such as your rank relative to your cohort or your school rank.

Your suggestion ultimately depends on the actual internal ranks of the student with a 90 and the student with an 85. Suppose the student with a 90 is ranked first and the student with an 85 is ranked second. As per the moderation process, if the student ranked second internally achieves a 90 as their Examination Mark, and if this 90 ends up being the highest Examination mark, the student with the highest internal rank will have their Assessment Mark adjusted to equal the highest Examination Mark, meaning that, in this particular case, their Assessment Mark will be 90 (although it doesn't really change in this example, this is not an impossible outcome). However, with ranks other than first, Assessment Marks may somewhat vary, although one thing is certain, which is that the Assessment Mark of the highest-ranking student internally will most likely be boosted.

 

[quickoats]

so, hypothetically speaking, what if someone in my grade gets a 70% in the hsc exam and is equivalent to my internal rank, but i end up getting 90% in the exam.
does this mean my internal mark will be around 70 whilst my exam mark will remain 90?
how will this discrepancy be sorted and how is this fair (given i did better in my internals than the person who got an exam mark of 70% equivalent to my rank)

Let's say you're 12th in your cohort. If the 12th highest HSC mark is 70%, then you will receive somewhere in the ballpark of 70 for your internal mark. If this is a middle of the pack rank, then there are rarely any discrepancies, so it's a fair reflection of your in school performance.

I am a little bit confused on why this student is of your concern if you ranked higher than them internally? It might be good if you gave a little explanation because I think you might be misunderstanding how the moderation process actually works. You don't really "swap positions" with anybody (even though people do tend to say that).

 

[zizi2003_]

Let's say you're 12th in your cohort. If the 12th highest HSC mark is 70%, then you will receive somewhere in the ballpark of 70 for your internal mark. If this is a middle of the pack rank, then there are rarely any discrepancies, so it's a fair reflection of your in school performance.

I am a little bit confused on why this student is of your concern if you ranked higher than them internally? It might be good if you gave a little explanation because I think you might be misunderstanding how the moderation process actually works. You don't really "swap positions" with anybody (even though people do tend to say that).

i thought that the examination mark of any person, that's equivalent to my rank in the school, will be my final assessment mark ?
so my main question was that, if someone in my grade gets say 70% in the hsc exam that's equivalent to my internal rank, would I end up getting 70% as my final assessment mark (despite getting, say, a 90 in the hsc)?

 

[uniqueusername1]

i thought that the examination mark of any person equivalent to my rank in the school will be my final assessment mark ?
so my main question was that, if someone in my grade gets say 70% in the hsc exam that's equivalent to my internal rank, would I end up getting 70% as my final assessment mark (despite getting, say, a 90 in the hsc)?

na i think you get the average of 70 and 90 which is 80. As you keep your external

 

[zizi2003_]

na i think you get the average of 70 and 90 which is 80. As you keep your external

but isnt the gap of 20 marks too big then- does this usually even happen for ppl?
plus isnt it unfair to get 70% (someone else's exam mark) when say, your actual internal average was in the 80s ??

 

[uniqueusername1]

but isnt the gap of 20 marks too big then- does this usually even happen for ppl?
plus isnt it unfair to get 70% (someone else's exam mark) when say, your actual internal average was in the 80s ??

i think this is why they prefer selective schools haha. But yea it is unfair if people are giving up. Thats why many teachers hate early entry.

 

[quickoats]

i thought that the examination mark of any person, that's equivalent to my rank in the school, will be my final assessment mark ?
so my main question was that, if someone in my grade gets say 70% in the hsc exam that's equivalent to my internal rank, would I end up getting 70% as my final assessment mark (despite getting, say, a 90 in the hsc)?

If you are ranked xth in school, and the xth highest mark is 70, then yes, you will (in most cases) receive 70 as your internal mark. This is probably the best reflection of your performance in school and a fair measure. Unless your cohort is very small, this is actually quite a good standardised reflection, since marks tend to be clustered relatively close together. . There is no way to know that the xth highest mark is 70 however.

Maybe an example will set things straight. There are 3 people in the class and they achieve the following (internal rank and mark) and HSC exam mark.
A (1st - 100%) 80
B (2nd - 85%) 70
C (3rd - 70%) 90

To reflect their in school performance, C will be assigned 70 as their internal mark, A gets 90, and B gets 80. See how this allocation reflects the relative gaps between their internal scores, as well as their rank.

but isnt the gap of 20 marks too big then- does this usually even happen for ppl?
plus isnt it unfair to get 70% (someone else's exam mark) when say, your actual internal average was in the 80s ??

The gaps are rarely huge since it is rare for all you peers performing of a similar rank to all flop and flunk. Think of it like you're being padded by the people with ranks next to you.

And no, it isn't unfair. Let's say the internal top mark at school was 100% and the lowest was 65%. You scored 80%. Now, in the HSC, the highest scored by your school is 92% and the lowest was 57%. This shows that your school was marking a bit too easy compared to the HSC. So it makes sense that your 80% in school is 'worth' around 72% relative to the HSC.

 

[O01x]

If you are ranked xth in school, and the xth highest mark is 70, then yes, you will (in most cases) receive 70 as your internal mark. This is probably the best reflection of your performance in school and a fair measure. Unless your cohort is very small, this is actually quite a good standardised reflection, since marks tend to be clustered relatively close together. . There is no way to know that the xth highest mark is 70 however.

Maybe an example will set things straight. There are 3 people in the class and they achieve the following (internal rank and mark) and HSC exam mark.
A (1st - 100%) 80
B (2nd - 85%) 70
C (3rd - 70%) 90

To reflect their in school performance, C will be assigned 70 as their internal mark, A gets 90, and B gets 80. See how this allocation reflects the relative gaps between their internal scores, as well as their rank.


The gaps are rarely huge since it is rare for all you peers performing of a similar rank to all flop and flunk. Think of it like you're being padded by the people with ranks next to you.

And no, it isn't unfair. Let's say the internal top mark at school was 100% and the lowest was 65%. You scored 80%. Now, in the HSC, the highest scored by your school is 92% and the lowest was 57%. This shows that your school was marking a bit too easy compared to the HSC. So it makes sense that your 80% in school is 'worth' around 72% relative to the HSC.

Is this also consistent in a small cohort though, will NESA adjust it? Lets say there's a 5 person cohort, first place external gets 94, second gets 85 and then rest get low 80s and mid 70s. But if first place is ranked 2nd internally he/she gets punished a lot since second place is 85, will NESA compensate or will they just get 85 as their internal mark?

 

[O01x]

but isnt the gap of 20 marks too big then- does this usually even happen for ppl?
plus isnt it unfair to get 70% (someone else's exam mark) when say, your actual internal average was in the 80s ??

Yeah unfortunately this happens quite a bit if you don't go to a selective school, I've known people that had got Band 4 internals and then Band 6 external marks, it was pretty common. Amongst my selective friends that got similar external marks to their comprehensive high school peers they didn't get "dragged down" as much, it was actually more common they got dragged up (Assessment mark was higher).

 

[quickoats]

Is this also consistent in a small cohort though, will NESA adjust it? Lets say there's a 5 person cohort, first place external gets 94, second gets 85 and then rest get low 80s and mid 70s. But if first place is ranked 2nd internally he/she gets punished a lot since second place is 85, will NESA compensate or will they just get 85 as their internal mark?

It depends of the distribution of the internal school marks. If the internal second is just trailing behind first, and well ahead of internal third, then they might see a higher mark than 85, as NESA aims to preserve the relative spaces between students.

 

[zizi2003_]

Maybe an example will set things straight. There are 3 people in the class and they achieve the following (internal rank and mark) and HSC exam mark.
A (1st - 100%) 80
B (2nd - 85%) 70
C (3rd - 70%) 90

To reflect their in school performance, C will be assigned 70 as their internal mark, A gets 90, and B gets 80. See how this allocation reflects the relative gaps between their internal scores, as well as their rank.

what if C got 85% in their internals, and B got say 90% in the internals
but B gets a 60% (the lowest in the grade) in the exam whilst C gets a 90% in the exam. Will C keep the 60% in place of their actual averaged internals (which is 85)?
my question is that how is it fair to reduce the internal mark of someone in a particular rank just because their cohort performs poorly in the HSC exam (perhaps because of low motivation levels or whatever)?

 

[quickoats]

what if C got 85% in their internals, and B got say 90% in the internals
but B gets a 60% (the lowest in the grade) in the exam whilst C gets a 90% in the exam. Will C keep the 60% in place of their actual averaged internals (which is 85)?
my question is that how is it fair to reduce the internal mark of someone in a particular rank just because their cohort performs poorly in the HSC exam (perhaps because of low motivation levels or whatever)?

This is quite unlikely and NESA have their undisclosed measures to make sure this process is fair as I'm sure there are outliers. In general, at a school with a cohort of more than 3, it is very likely that a few people would've achieved scores in the 70s and 80s (you are padded out by those neighboring you in ranks). This means C's moderated mark will probably not be 60. It also depends on A's mark, and the relative mark distribution.
C will only be assigned the 60% (the lowest mark in the grade) if they are the bottom of the class (assuming the cohort is way bigger than 3).

You cannot just give someone their averaged internals as I've outlined earlier. If you'd like to provide your rank and maybe marks maybe we could figure out if it's likely that the scenario will even happen? unless you're dead last at school, then magically climb to a high rank in the HSC, as well as someone completely bombing the HSC, I'm not sure why you'd think this is a bad reflection of your in school performance.

 

[Life'sHard]

This is quite unlikely and NESA have their undisclosed measures to make sure this process is fair as I'm sure there are outliers. In general, at a school with a cohort of more than 3, it is very likely that a few people would've achieved scores in the 70s and 80s (you are padded out by those neighboring you in ranks). This means C's moderated mark will probably not be 60. It also depends on A's mark, and the relative mark distribution.
C will only be assigned the 60% (the lowest mark in the grade) if they are the bottom of the class (assuming the cohort is way bigger than 3).

You cannot just give someone their averaged internals as I've outlined earlier. If you'd like to provide your rank and maybe marks maybe we could figure out if it's likely that the scenario will even happen? unless you're dead last at school, then magically climb to a high rank in the HSC, as well as someone completely bombing the HSC, I'm not sure why you'd think this is a bad reflection of your in school performance.

That’s an interesting scenario. What if you are bottom last for your school and then smash it in the HSC. What would happen to that persons internal mark? Would he still get the lowest in the grade for his internals?