How can I do well at school without tutoring?? (1 Viewer)

[umuwu]

To cut to the chase: I go to a high ranking selective school where the majority of people go tutoring. This "pay to win" mindset has always annoyed me because:

1. Not everyone can afford tutoring. There are so many students who get tutored for EVERY subject they do
2. I've noticed that tutored students tend to not engage with class, but still do exceptionally well in exams.
3. A lot of the time, assignments (essays especially) are the tutor's work and not the student's.

I had always been a high achiever but recently I've come to realise that I may not be able beat the tutored kids anymore. I would say I'm rank in the top 10 out of 100 people (might not seem bad to you, but I'm really serious about school haha). So my question is this: how can I do well at school without tutoring? And how do I work smart and not hard? If it helps, I do phys, chem, bio, maths and english.

PS. Please don't give me tips like 'sleep more, have a balance between study and play, remove distractions'. I'm all good with them already.

 

[Drdusk]

To cut to the chase: I go to a high ranking selective school where the majority of people go tutoring. This "pay to win" mindset has always annoyed me because:

1. Not everyone can afford tutoring. There are so many students who get tutored for EVERY subject they do
2. I've noticed that tutored students tend to not engage with class, but still do exceptionally well in exams.
3. A lot of the time, assignments (essays especially) are the tutor's work and not the student's.

I had always been a high achiever but recently I've come to realise that I may not be able beat the tutored kids anymore. I would say I'm rank in the top 10 out of 100 people (might not seem bad to you, but I'm really serious about school haha). So my question is this: how can I do well at school without tutoring? And how do I work smart and not hard? If it helps, I do phys, chem, bio, maths and english.

PS. Please don't give me tips like 'sleep more, have a balance between study and play, remove distractions'. I'm all good with them already.

There is something called the Pomodoro method. It's very simple but I've noticed it boosting my productivity.
Really the only difference between tutored and non-tutored kids is that tutored kids go ahead by a lot and receive heaps of great resources. You could self teach yourself and go ahead so your always ahead of your school. As for the resources you could ask one of your friends who go to tutoring to perhaps share their resources with you and I'm sure they won't mind.

 

[coldpole]

Isn't 10/100 rank in a top selective school technically a mid-high band 6?

 

[abdulrahmanbhatti02]

Hey. I received a 99.85 ATAR at a 249th ranked school, and was never tutored for any subjects throughout my school life. My biggest advice would be to not rely on anybody. You know yourself best, and you should do whatever suits you best. Keep organised and be consistent. Capitalise on non-assessment periods by completing as much practice responses as possible; and get feedback on them. Have a goal and be internally motivated, don't to it for your teacher or your parents, do it for yourself. Teachers can be great resources too, make use of their feedback and improve accordingly.

 

[andrew12678]

To cut to the chase: I go to a high ranking selective school where the majority of people go tutoring. This "pay to win" mindset has always annoyed me because:

1. Not everyone can afford tutoring. There are so many students who get tutored for EVERY subject they do
2. I've noticed that tutored students tend to not engage with class, but still do exceptionally well in exams.
3. A lot of the time, assignments (essays especially) are the tutor's work and not the student's.

I had always been a high achiever but recently I've come to realise that I may not be able beat the tutored kids anymore. I would say I'm rank in the top 10 out of 100 people (might not seem bad to you, but I'm really serious about school haha). So my question is this: how can I do well at school without tutoring? And how do I work smart and not hard? If it helps, I do phys, chem, bio, maths and english.

PS. Please don't give me tips like 'sleep more, have a balance between study and play, remove distractions'. I'm all good with them already.

Although I went to tutoring for most of my subjects, I'm convinced I could have achieved similar results without it (note that I said could, not would). For me, I only see tutoring as only advantageous in learning content ahead of time so when learnt again at school it is revision and you won't be left behind. I believe you can easily supplement this with self study ahead of time and with sufficient resources (although this requires dedication and many people give up, hence I said 'could' earlier as I may have fallen into this category).

At the end of the day, everyone 'knows' the content to similar extents close to an exam so what really matters is practice. The resources that many tutoring centers offer can easily be matched with tonnes of past papers and time spent reviewing mistakes

 

[jazz519]

To cut to the chase: I go to a high ranking selective school where the majority of people go tutoring. This "pay to win" mindset has always annoyed me because:

1. Not everyone can afford tutoring. There are so many students who get tutored for EVERY subject they do
2. I've noticed that tutored students tend to not engage with class, but still do exceptionally well in exams.
3. A lot of the time, assignments (essays especially) are the tutor's work and not the student's.

I had always been a high achiever but recently I've come to realise that I may not be able beat the tutored kids anymore. I would say I'm rank in the top 10 out of 100 people (might not seem bad to you, but I'm really serious about school haha). So my question is this: how can I do well at school without tutoring? And how do I work smart and not hard? If it helps, I do phys, chem, bio, maths and english.

PS. Please don't give me tips like 'sleep more, have a balance between study and play, remove distractions'. I'm all good with them already.

You will be fine just keep doing what you are doing to achieve high marks. I also didn't get tutoring till year 12 so before that I was just doing self study and still probably on a similar trajectory to the atar I got, unlike a lot of my peers who started tutoring earlier. There's nothing wrong in getting tutoring early if you need the help but a lot of kids just get tutoring for the sake of it but don't actually use it properly.] Meaning they just go there learn something for like 1-2 hours and then go home and don't even do the homework or think about the subject much till the next school lesson or tutoring lesson. Those kind of students don't really benefit from tutoring because they don't use it to ask questions or improve their abilities.

However, for a student who is average or a bit above average that is really hard working and although they might not be as intelligent naturally they can really benefit from tutoring because it provides them guidance and a structured plan on how to improve, which a teacher can't really provide because they have to help 30 kids in a classroom.

Other kids are smart and technically don't need the tutoring but they go to tutoring not to learn content but for the knowledge of how to structure answers or get access to hard questions which are sometimes difficult to just find yourself (that's what I probably fell into when I went tutoring, because usually I already knew the content but used it for the purpose of exam questions). That is probably what the majority of students in selective schools do and the reason they go tutoring.

If it's not possible to get tutoring for you it doesn't mean you are going do crap, you seem like a student who is very smart if you are ranking well in a selective school and as such you don't have the same issues that an average student would have without tutoring. Instead of a tutor pushing you to study or motivating you, you are going to have to do that yourself but these days honestly if you have the motivation and will power to do something in studying you can do it because there is so much free materials you can use online to study like Khan Academy for sciences and other youtube videos from people like Eddie Wu for maths. English is though perhaps a subject if you are not naturally good at it yourself then a tutoring intervention can help a lot. For the other subjects like sciences and maths, tutoring is maybe 20% of the work done for getting a decent ATAR, the other 80% is actually the student studying for themselves and doing the work required to achieve that ATAR, as when exam time comes ur tutor isn't going to sit ur exam for you and a tutor isn't a magician who can put all the content in a student's head, as they can only give you the pathway or advice to get a good mark. So overall actual ability and hard work will get you better mark vs getting tutoring everything

 

[TeheeCat]

Yes it's 100% possible to do well without tutoring! At my school, the few people who achieved all-rounders (i.e. band 6/E4s in at least 10 units) did so without tutoring; they studied consistently throughout the entire year and had lots of self-motivation. I myself succeeded in reaching my ATAR goal and actually scored band 6/E4 in both 2U and 3U without spending a single cent on tutoring during the entire Year 11/12. You are ranked top 10 in your cohort which already shows you are more than capable of doing well. You just need to keep it up! It seems to me that you're a highly motivated person which is absolutely essential in competing well against your peers.

I would say that one benefit of not attending tutoring includes not being forced to attend extra classes. This leaves you a lot of free time for you to focus on your own studies as opposed to following the tutoring centre. Sure a lot of people argue tutoring is great for staying ahead of the class in content, but who says you can't achieve this on your own either? With the summer holidays coming up now, you can use this time to consolidate knowledge in sciences and possibly study ahead in math. IMO, I recommend staying ahead by a few exercises or at most 1-2 topics for math. Not sure about you but I think if I stayed ahead by 2+ topics, I would have forgotten what I learnt by the time it's taught in class... just something I experienced! If this doesn't apply to you then you may disregard this and do what works for you.

Another helpful tip for math: After attempting papers, record ALL of the questions you got wrong (whether it's from silly errors or complete struggle). Then either reattempt these questions or ask for help from peers/teachers so you can gain an understanding of how to approach those type of questions in the future and maybe even pick up some useful tricks!

You are disadvantaged in a sense that you have less resources available compared to those attending tutoring. So to remedy this, it's important to find resources as well, whether it's from scavenging through the internet, asking peers for resources or even making use of resources from the old syllabus and just picking out the relevant stuff. Good thing is that you're the second cohort to be examined on the new syllabuses for English and Science so hopefully there should be plenty of trial papers floating around somewhere.

I second the Pomdoro technique suggested above; it really is the most efficient way to study I feel. I would also like to recommend incorporating spaced repetition as a study technique (especially in the form of flashcards). To oversimplify: new flashcards + ones you experience difficulty in recalling are shown more frequently as opposed to flashcards you're more familiar with (comes back to my point of focusing on your weaknesses). There's definitely more to it, search up on it if you want to know more If this study technique interests you, definitely get the Anki app! Keep in mind that I primarily used this for Business Studies and Economics which relied lots on memorisation. This technique would probably be beneficial for Biology, not sure about Chemistry. As for Physics: most helpful for Module 7 and 8 as these topics have lots of theory and history to memorise.... Just make sure you practise the mathematical problems though.

Also for English, maybe have one or more study friends where you can bounce ideas off from each other while discussing pescribed texts. You can also consider completing essays and short answer responses to unseen texts and then exchange to give peer feedback. Send works to your teachers too!

 

[s97127]

I think you need to find someone who is willing share tutoring resources with you. I've asked many people (andrew12678 was one of them haha) to sell their resources but unfortunately most of them refused to do it. Once you got good resources, the rest should be easy if you have the motivation.
Btw, English is harder to master unless you have someone to mark your essays on a regular basis. Good luck!

 

[gudetamago]

Short answer: YES!

I went to a low ranking school (in the mid to low 200s) and duxed in the HSC. I was afraid that my school ranking was going to drag down my HSC marks since I knew that 70% or so of my cohort already received early offers to uni and so weren't going to try their best in the exams, but I didn't go to a single tutoring lesson. And this was for many reasons:
1. I couldn't afford it
2. My parents were somewhat against it (they believed that good grades came from hard work and not the help of others)
3. I didn't think I needed to have a tutor? Well mainly because I consider myself to be hard-working and motivated enough to learn things on my own.

In fact, I would say my marks came from my own efforts and none from my school. I rarely received any support from teachers because since I was almost ranking first in all my classes, they assumed I was well off to do things alone. Which sucked big-time by the way. But anyways, I came out of the HSC with a high enough atar to do the course I want, so the assistance of a tutor wouldn't have made a huge difference for me in the end. Personally, I would only opt to get a tutor if you're really struggling in a subject or consistently getting low marks.

 

[jimmysmith560]

What are your thoughts @jimmysmith560 @CM_Tutor @Eagle Mum @jazz519

1. If at a tutoring company, tutoring for every single subject would definitely be quite expensive. However, I think that, at the end of the day, provided the family is able to comfortably afford such expenses and the student is genuinely in need of tutoring across all their subjects, it is justified. If tutoring is sought for the sake of showing off (and other sorts of backward/primitive behaviour), then it's a waste of time and money. There is of course the case of private tutoring, which would be much more affordable, particularly if the student is able to find a tutor that tutors most (and possibly all in some cases) of their subjects at a relatively low rate.

2. I believe this depends on each individual student, and is more of a psychological matter rather than whether or not the student uses a tutoring service, i.e. there is the possibility that a student who gets tutoring may engage in class and vice versa, i.e. a student who does not get tutoring may not engage in class.

3. Under normal circumstances (i.e. assuming there are no cheating allegations), I believe a teacher's reaction to tutored students who don't engage in class but perform favourably in exams would be identical to that of a non-tutored student who engages in class and performs favourably in exams. The only minor difference would be that the teacher may not have expected the student who didn't engage in class to perform well, as opposed to the student who regularly participates, causing a bit of a surprised reaction.

 

[CM_Tutor]

3. How do teachers react to tutored students who don’t engage in class but do well in tests? Would irritate them that people who care about their lessons do better than those who do

In my experience, teachers often don't like tutors and disregard their contribution, assuming that strong results reflects their teaching skill. I have had a few students who have upset their teachers by bluntly offering a different view.

Many teachers also dislike students who are being tutored who point out mistakes or show them up in class.

 

[CM_Tutor]

I get how this would occur subjects like maths,physics and chem by pointing out errors in working out. But could this also occur in wordy subjects like biology?

I recall one case where a question from an exam came up. My student was the only one in the class who could answer it - it was an application of theory that doesn't come up much. When the teacher asked why the class found it difficult my student asked "isn't it because it's about XXX", the XXX being the area of theory, and then added "which you haven't taught us yet?"

So, yes, it can come up in lots of ways, and some students enjoy showing their teachers up (a habit I strongly discourage, I might add).

 

[CM_Tutor]

He was showing off for classmates and I told him it was unwise to provoke the people who mark you.

 

[jimmysmith560]

2. Wouldn’t it also be that since they know everything, they see that there is nothing to gain in clsss and don’t participate

Possibly, such students may fulfill needs relative to showing off their knowledge (if applicable), prior to/outside of the school environment, such as within the tutoring environment. It is also possible that they are just not interested in participating and adopt a purely results-based approach.

 

[jazz519]

1. Wouldn’t it be ridiculously expensive to get a tutor for every subject? Although public schools are free for the most part, so it’s like spending the money on a private school for tutoring?
2. Why don’t the tutored students engage in class? Wouldn’t they want to show off their enhanced knowledge?
3. How do teachers react to tutored students who don’t engage in class but do well in tests? Would irritate them that people who care about their lessons do better than those who do

1. Depends on the type of tutoring. Tutoring centre for example then yeah it's a ridiculous price to afford as the lessons are usually like 3 hours and 40 an hour. If it's private tutoring for 1-2 hr and at an okay price then it's probably fine. Most people though don't go tutoring for every subjects, it's only really in specific subjects because it's not worth it and you won't have that much time to go all the tutorings, study and do homework from school.

2. This is student dependent. I engaged in the class even though I had tutoring for some subjects because I found it useful for revision and strengthening my knowledge. Don't think most people apart from a select few go to tutoring for flexing their knowledge during class. Most people go tutoring to improve or get better in their ability

3. No clue about this, since I'm not a teacher so don't know how they would feel. From my experiences though with going tutoring and teachers knowing they didn't mind, they actually were very welcoming of alternative perspectives on questions or concepts. This was maybe because my school culture was based on everyone working together to improve, rather than trying to secretly keep away knowledge to get a better rank and not help other students.

 

[CM_Tutor]

Chemistry is a "wordy" subject, the least wordy of the sciences is physics, but even it is quite wordy the way the HSC has been since around 2000. As for approaches to tutoring, that's really off topic for this thread, but we can chat about it in a PM if you like.