Honour Killings (2 Viewers)

[wrxsti]

http://www.kessbenfm.com/news_read.php?nid=1207

i dont get it....
a man committed murder...
he was arrested..... ? is there a problem here?

 

[flappinghippo]

Islam is such a fucked up, vile, sexist, ancient and dangerous religion.

It is true that Christianity was to a large extent similar with regard to violence and treatment of women etc. However, the key word here is was.

How many hundreds of thousands of young girls have to suffer genital mutilation before we stop making excuses for this insane religion?

Why do we have to be so tolerant for Muslim culture when their countries deny entry to Jews? Why do we have to put up with the inevitable trouble caused by people from such an outdated and polar culture and pay for it from our own pockets? What do we get out of it?

 

[wrxsti]

why the fuck do we need to put up with racist mother fuckers like you, dickhead.


Answer that question

If Islam wasnt around you would be saying the same fucking thing about Jews
If Judaims wasnt around you would be saying the same fuken thing about Africans .

So SHUT THE FUCK UP. sit down and deal with it you racist fukhead.

what are you gana do about ti? build an atomic bomb and blow up the middle east...

AND YES.... of course ... everyone is tolerant of muslims....... yes definetely
FUK UP thats why a report was circulated which stated Australians are racist.

There are so many instances of clear racism which goes unheard of.
Before you go about saying how fucking barbaric Islam is. Look at yourself fuckhead.

As usual your fukt up sterotypes ignore all rationailty and logic.
you know..... ill give you a life tip

Become a lawyer.... cause dude... your FULL OF CRAP

 

[sam04u]

Alright moron, I suppose it's time to back a few of those statements up.

sexist

First back up this statement.

vile

Then this one.

hundreds of thousands of young girls have to suffer genital mutilation

Yeah, that one too. Evidence that Islam either supports Genital Mutilation, or practices Genital mutilation on a broad scale. To the effect of "hudreds of thousands", will be good enough.

insane religion

Unless you believe all relgions are insane, which is your right as a disbeliever. This statement needs to be backed up too. What part of Islam is "insane"?

when their countries deny entry to Jews?

Yeah, another lie here. Back this up too.

for it from our own pockets

Once more, what have you been charged or us collectively.

 

[Cookie182]

this is horrible...im appauled that such acts even occur in this world and so thankfull that i live in Australia. I highly doubt ill ever leave.

What i dont understand is why any RELIGION should be so heavily tied into laws- i mean i see a lot of people on here quoting this ancient book (not just muslims, i realise there is bible fanatics as well). I assume you are all intelligent people, why do u feel compelled to follow its word-to-word teachings? Who said that is the best way to live life?

If people choose to live like this i guess its ok but i reckon that every one should have the right to complete freedom- the ability to choose no religion. So many people in other countries are born into a religoius family and have no way out of that life- particulalry girls. I know a lot of them probably like it but they have never been exposed to anything else- they should be given the opportunity not yo follow the religion of their family, and not be killed for senseless crap like this.

Religon to me is personal, you beleive because you want to. If a country bases its laws around it (and ur born in that country, u dont have a choice) but u dont beleive the religion then the laws should not apply to you.

Are girls allowed to freely leave their family and the country?

 

[sam04u]

this is horrible...im appauled that such acts even occur in this world and so thankfull that i live in Australia. I highly doubt ill ever leave.

What i dont understand is why any RELIGION should be so heavily tied into laws- i mean i see a lot of people on here quoting this ancient book (not just muslims, i realise there is bible fanatics as well). I assume you are all intelligent people, why do u feel compelled to follow its word-to-word teachings? Who said that is the best way to live life?

If people choose to live like this i guess its ok but i reckon that every one should have the right to complete freedom- the ability to choose no religion. So many people in other countries are born into a religoius family and have no way out of that life- particulalry girls. I know a lot of them probably like it but they have never been exposed to anything else- they should be given the opportunity not yo follow the religion of their family, and not be killed for senseless crap like this.

Religon to me is personal, you beleive because you want to. If a country bases its laws around it (and ur born in that country, u dont have a choice) but u dont beleive the religion then the laws should not apply to you.

Are girls allowed to freely leave their family and the country?

Well all law is based on morals (bare in mind I'm not condoning something even the religion doesn't). So lets say for instance I was in an the U.S and I did something like commit murder or treason or some other offence. (Which I believed to be fine based under the circumstances.) The morals by which the laws are formed would dictate my punishment. Which might be execution.

So you see I wouldn't have a choice (if that was my situation), does that mean the death penalty shouldn't apply to me? Does that mean I shouldn't be convicted for the crime I commited? All laws and punishments are dictated by the morals which the majority of the people in a country believe in.

Are girls allowed to freely leave their family and the country?

Technically, yes. But in reality they usually come from poor countries and have a strong connection to their families. So leaving would be psychologically and sometimes monetarily impossible.

 

[banco55]

Well all law is based on morals (bare in mind I'm not condoning something even the religion doesn't). So lets say for instance I was in an the U.S and I did something like commit murder or treason or some other offence. (Which I believed to be fine based under the circumstances.) The morals by which the laws are formed would dictate my punishment. Which might be execution.

So you see I wouldn't have a choice (if that was my situation), does that mean the death penalty shouldn't apply to me? Does that mean I shouldn't be convicted for the crime I commited? All laws and punishments are dictated by the morals which the majority of the people in a country believe in.


Technically, yes. But in reality they usually come from poor countries and have a strong connection to their families. So leaving would be psychologically and sometimes monetarily impossible.

The US has freedom of religion and a seperation of church and state. Go to Saudi Arabia and start preaching christianity and see how long you last. For that matter ask S1MO how well the coptic christians are treated in Egypt.

 

[sam04u]

The US has freedom of religion and a seperation of church and state. Go to Saudi Arabia and start preaching christianity and see how long you last. For that matter ask S1MO how well the coptic christians are treated in Egypt.

You missed the point I was making. The point I was making is that law is dictated by the majority of a population. That's true in the U.S it's true in Australia and it's true even in Saudi Arabia. If we're going to talk about ill-treatment, why not talk about the U.S's inhumane treatment in military bases and torture camps throughout the world, and in the middle-east. Like Guantanamo bay, where people are held against their will, without even being charged of a crime.

Don't try and make U.S and its policies seem like a haven of freedom.

 

[ari89]

Well all law is based on morals (bare in mind I'm not condoning something even the religion doesn't). So lets say for instance I was in an the U.S and I did something like commit murder or treason or some other offence. (Which I believed to be fine based under the circumstances.) The morals by which the laws are formed would dictate my punishment. Which might be execution.

no

 

[S1M0]

In the arab countries such as Egypt capital punishment still applies. Even Indonesia...

I'm pretty sure that it doesn't apply for adultery. Drug smuggling perhaps would carry that penalty. Isn't Egypt officially a secular country?

 

[flappinghippo]

Alright moron, I suppose it's time to back a few of those statements up.

"sexist"
First back up this statement.

Women are treated as second class citizens, nothing but chattels to wealthy men. They are not allowed to WALK outside without their husbands, not allowed to book hotels, start businesses. Oh, and they aren't even allowed to talk above a whisper in public because it 'arouses men'. Men have many wives, and are allowed to divorce them for whatever reason. Can't be said the other way around.

Girls and boys are segregated as soon as they reach schooling age and are forbidden to speak to a member of the opposite sex.

This would go on. I assumed everyone would know. For basic reference however; imagine a 5th century AD desert lifestyle and attitude. Bingo! Islam is about emulating the life of a dude from the 5th Century who was married to a 14 year old.


"vile"
Then this one.

Hmm. You got me there. I've got nothing. They're not vile at all; in fact I'd go so far as to say they're supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

"hundreds of thousands of young girls have to suffer genital mutilation"
Yeah, that one too. Evidence that Islam either supports Genital Mutilation, or practices Genital mutilation on a broad scale. To the effect of "hudreds of thousands", will be good enough.

I read this in a book called Nine Parts of Desire: The Hidden World of Islamic Women by Geraldine Brooks, an Australian journalist. It is not present in the Koran, but apparently 1 in 6 of Islamic women, predominantly in the poorer regions of Africa, are castrated. What does that say? It certainly fucking does have something to do with the religion.

"insane religion"
Unless you believe all relgions are insane, which is your right as a disbeliever. This statement needs to be backed up too. What part of Islam is "insane"?

I hope you're joking. I guess getting stoned to death for adultery is pretty tame nowadays. Or blowing yourself and 40 other infidels up for 72 imaginary virgins.

To answer your question, I would indeed say all religions are insane (except Buddhism, everybody likes Buddhism). I would say its hypocrisy is pretty insane, compared to others. And among other things..

"when their countries deny entry to Jews?"
Yeah, another lie here. Back this up too.

A family friend who lives and teaches in Qatar told us.

"for it from our own pockets"
Once more, what have you been charged or us collectively.

You cannot deny some immigrant group youths have a higher unemployment rate than others. And it's universally expected that there is a pretty strong link between "young unemployed man" and "crime". There is a cost to society as a whole economically, to enforce rule of law, and socially, for those who lived there beforehand who experience crime and are expected to adapt to THEM. It's very easy for us to call this racist blah blah, but we don't pay the taxes, we don't really bear the cost.

Look at European countries that have allowed thousands of Muslim immigrants in. Hardly picturesque, don't you agree?

You can keep your opinion, but I bet in years to come when our generation is older and we're paying for the running of the country, you'll realise "hey you know, fuck this. I'm not going to pay for the problems caused by people who never understood our culture, won't pay for that understanding to be fully embedded 2, 3 generations down the track. Stay in your own country if you think it's so much better."


You have to draw a line somewhere. I'm not saying all Muslims are bad people. It seems to me that the religion makes good people into paranoid, sex-obsessed, and narrowminded drones. Can be said for Christianity; just the body count favours one over another.

 

[banco55]

You missed the point I was making. The point I was making is that law is dictated by the majority of a population. That's true in the U.S it's true in Australia and it's true even in Saudi Arabia. If we're going to talk about ill-treatment, why not talk about the U.S's inhumane treatment in military bases and torture camps throughout the world, and in the middle-east. Like Guantanamo bay, where people are held against their will, without even being charged of a crime.

Don't try and make U.S and its policies seem like a haven of freedom.

Of course the US has problems. But it has a much better human rights record then any majority muslim state and the degree of freedom that its citizens enjoy is far beyond what citizens of most majority muslim states enjoy. Actually we dont' really know what the majority of Saudia Arabia want because they can't vote (that would be unislamic of course).

 

[sam04u]

nothing but chattels to wealthy men. They are not allowed to WALK outside without their husbands

I suppose that is also true to the Islamic Republic of Iran, where the Vice President is a woman. I take it she has to conduct all diplomacy with her husband by her side. It's untrue that Islam prohibits women to walk outside without their husbands. Perhaps in oppresive Saudi Arabia, where corruptions and additions of Islam are in place that can be true. Then again, you have to realise that governments such as that one, and the one in Afghanistan have the U.S and Britains hands intertwined with them.

Basically, they like Shah's and Monarch's controlling the country. So long as it's in their interest.

Not allowed to book hotels, start businesses.

You know Muhammad (PBUH)'s first wife was a business women? It's not in Islamic principles that women can't work or vote, because they've been doing both before European and Western women even got into universities. (Bare in mind the womens suffrage occured in modern history in Europe and the West.)

Women got the right to vote in 1900's in the west and Europe.
In Islam women had the right to vote in 600's.

Which is backwards?

Oh, and they aren't even allowed to talk above a whisper in public because it 'arouses men'.

Again, the news reporters in Egypt, or the lady vending the Fruit Stands in the many Bazaar's in exotic parts of the Arabian peninsula shan't raise for voice. (Obvious sarcasm.) That's a lie, considering you can hear a strong, passionate, muslim womens voice in every corner of the Middle East.

Men have many wives, and are allowed to divorce them for whatever reason. Can't be said the other way around.

A man may have a four wives according to Islamic principles. Tunisia recently banned polygamy, along with many other Islamic countries.

This would go on. I assumed everyone would know. For basic reference however; imagine a 5th century AD desert lifestyle and attitude.

Islam was founded in the 7th century, and led the world into the next era when Europe was facing the "Dark Ages", so that's a lie. Also considering the United Arab Emirates, probably has a higher "Average" GDP than we do, I don't think they live desert lives there. Infact, that's a complete lie.

but apparently 1 in 6 of Islamic women, predominantly in the poorer regions of Africa, are castrated.

I call bullshit. Islam doesn't condone genital mutilation. There's no reason for it.

Or blowing yourself and 40 other infidels up for 72 imaginary virgins

That's a lie used to discredit those fighting against oppresion.

To answer your question, I would indeed say all religions are insane (except Buddhism, everybody likes Buddhism)

Okay, you keep waiting for that Avatar meitreya to appear. He'll change the world, etc.

A family friend who lives and teaches in Qatar told us.

The Jews fled Europe and countries around the world to live with Muslims. Because they weren't persecuted in the Middle East.

You have to draw a line somewhere. I'm not saying all Muslims are bad people.

So you're saying most are? Who are you to judge what's good or bad? I think it's universally accepted that lieing or being mislead is bad. In which case I would say you're much worse. Going around spreading lies based on fallacy and propoganda.

It seems to me that the religion makes good people into paranoid, sex-obsessed, and narrowminded drones.

Irony? I really hope you're a troll. Because you're narrow minded, probably paranoid. And worse still you buy into lies which are being propogated by mass media.

 

[flappinghippo]

You know Muhammad (PBUH)'s first wife was a business women? It's not in Islamic principles that women can't work or vote, because they've been doing both before European and Western women even got into universities. (Bare in mind the womens suffrage occured in modern history in Europe and the West.)

That's not relevant. Women have many more rights and are far more equal to men than those in Islamic countries today (that's what this is about). Only the more progressive ones are on par.

Still sexist. ie. inheritance

In Islam, women are entitled the right of inheritance,[Qur'an 4:7] but often a woman's share of inheritance is less than that of a man's. In general circumstances, Islam allows females half the inheritance share available to males who have the same degree of relation to the deceased.[16] Some argue that this difference derives from men's obligation to support their wives financially, while the women's share would be entirely at her own disposal.[1]
In most Muslim nations, the law of the state concerning inheritance is in accordance with this law.

I concede my statements were too general. They still happen though, as a direct result of Islamic preachings and the ways they are implemented.

Women got the right to vote in 1900's in the west and Europe.
In Islam women had the right to vote in 600's.

Which is backwards?

The status of women's testimony in Islam is disputed. Some jurists have held that certain types testimony by women will not be accepted.[21]. In other cases, the testimony of two women can equal that of one man.[21][Qur'an 2:282][22] The reason for this disparity has been explained in various manners, including women's lack of intelligence,[23] women's temperament and sphere of interest,[24] and sparing women from the burden of testifying.[25] In other areas, women's testimony may be accepted on an equal basis with men's.[21][26]

Again, the news reporters in Egypt, or the lady vending the Fruit Stands in the many Bazaar's in exotic parts of the Arabian peninsula shan't raise for voice. (Obvious sarcasm.) That's a lie, considering you can hear a strong, passionate, muslim womens voice in every corner of the Middle East.

At each corner, just not everywhere in between.

A man may have a four wives according to Islamic principles. Tunisia recently banned polygamy, along with many other Islamic countries.

I thought a man could have as many wives as he could support?

Muhammed was married to 11 (now that we're making references to Muhammed's life).

Islam was founded in the 7th century, and led the world into the next era when Europe was facing the "Dark Ages", so that's a lie. Also considering the United Arab Emirates, probably has a higher "Average" GDP than we do, I don't think they live desert lives there. Infact, that's a complete lie.

I don't think that's very relevant. So what if he 'led the world'? Yes, good for him and the world. Of 7th Century AD.

I said Islam is about emulating Mohammed's lifestyle. He lived in desert country. Make some connections. Hint: I am not saying, "Islam says you must live in the desert".

Once you have, ask yourself what parts of a 7th Century lifestyle haven't been improved on in the 21st Century?

Oh, and Mohammed was married to a 9 year old.

I call bullshit. Islam doesn't condone genital mutilation. There's no reason for it.

I did not say they condone it. It is just prevalent in poorer regions of Africa (and other places) where, due to a multifaceted combination of factors, one of them religion, poor understanding brings incorrect implementation of a small verse in the Koran in order to cohere to the religion (or so it is believed). Link

Attitudes and Beliefs:
According to the study, Kemayoran community women in Jakarta believe that the practice is mandated or recommended by Islam. The more educated mothers believe the practice is "sunnah" (recommended or encouraged by the prophet Muhammad). The less educated mothers believe the practice is "wajib" (mandatory).

The rural mothers of the West Java community of Cijeruk said the procedure was performed according to sunnah and was meant to purify female babies. It was also regarded as a local custom and believed to promote good hygiene.

Some religious leaders believe that the removal or partial removal of the clitoris is beneficial to marriage because a woman would be more likely to remain faithful to her husband if she had no sexual drive. Some religious Islamic leaders consider this practice a mandate of Islam. Other religious leaders believe that this practice is recommended by Islamic teachings but not mandated.

That's a lie used to discredit those fighting against oppresion.

What's the lie? Islamic suicide bombings, or the fact that they do it partly for the fact that there will be 72 virgins waiting up there for them?

I thought they both were true? Tell me how they are not.

Assuming you cannot prove me wrong here, doesn't the fact that violence/martyrdom is condoned by the Koran disturb you? Even if most Muslims disagree with it, it only takes a few fanatics to take it as Allah's word to kill as many infidels as they can. How can you reason with men who are resolved to die for what desert towelheads wrote in a book hundreds of years ago?

The Jews fled Europe and countries around the world to live with Muslims. Because they weren't persecuted in the Middle East.

flappinghippo: hey guys, I heard you Jews came to the Middle East because you were getting persecuted in Europe.
Israel: That's right. Like millenia ago.
Palestine: Yeah.
[silence]
Palestine: -suicide bombing-
Israel: -missile strikes-

Mitchell Bard
More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940's in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Yemen.(13) This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.

So you're saying most are? Who are you to judge what's good or bad? I think it's universally accepted that lieing or being mislead is bad. In which case I would say you're much worse. Going around spreading lies based on fallacy and propoganda.

I will state that most Muslim people are normal people like you and I. I should have said that earlier, sorry.

However, the religion has a tendency to breed outdated mindsets, that combined with the right social/cultural and economic situation produces dangerous, irrational and regressive minds that cause disproportionate damage. More so than any other religion we know today.

Do you recall a cartoon depicting the Prophet?

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

A man known as Sharif has reportedly stoned his fourteen-year-old daughter to death in southeastern Iran because for allegedly having a relationship with a man.

Sharif's wife reported him to police after he and a friend killed the girl in Zahedan, capital of Baluchistan province.

Sharif showed no sign of remorse, telling police who interrogated him: "I suspected that my daughter had a relationship with a man and I had to stone her to death as she had besmirched my honour."

"I had no other choice," he said, telling police how he had carried out the stoning.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Politics/?id=1.0.1889385027

 

[god's pie]

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Politics/?id=1.0.1889385027

I thought it was traditional for them to date young girls in that part of the world, lol.

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

I thought it was traditional for them to date young girls in that part of the world, lol.

They don't date young girls. The young girls get betrothed to men they do not know and are then married to them while they are still children. (Note, Marriage in Islam requires it be consumated by sexual intercourse. Like what Muhammad did with his 9 year old child wife.)

 

[dlahx]

far out i hate how women are always degraded in society, even in the freaking 21st century :|

 

[ippie]

far out i hate how women are always degraded in society, even in the freaking 21st century :|

PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!

nonono they are not sexist. It's their culture. Just because in OUR society, women are pretty equal to men, doesn't mean we're RIGHT.

They prob think we're wrong, for all we know.

I am NOT saying that their rules and stuff are great, because I personally disagree too, EXCEPT, that is their culture.

I think the problem is that they are a little extreme - women must not show any part of themselves except for eyes, women can talk louder than a whisper etc

But again, that's their culture.

I agree with what dlahx says... but for OUR western culture. OUR society isn't completely equal between the sexes, you know. And it prob never will be.

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!
nonono they are not sexist. It's their culture. Just because in OUR society, women are pretty equal to men, doesn't mean we're RIGHT.
They prob think we're wrong, for all we know.
I am NOT saying that their rules and stuff are great, because I personally disagree too, EXCEPT, that is their culture.
I think the problem is that they are a little extreme - women must not show any part of themselves except for eyes, women can talk louder than a whisper etc
But again, that's their culture.
I agree with what dlahx says... but for OUR western culture. OUR society isn't completely equal between the sexes, you know. And it prob never will be.

Just wondering...for this argument to work what are those women in that culture who speak and struggle against it? You know...those women who see the inherent wrong in being treated like animals, having less rights in society and the courts, having to hide themselves or die, having their genitals mutilated etc... Are they not part of their own culture? Are they insane heretics? Maybe it is a hint that there is something wrong with their cultures actions which makes it unacceptable in all contexts?

If people inside and from that culture such as Wafa-Sultan, Nahid Keshavarz, Brigitte Gabriel and other countless men and women see it as wrong why can't we

(Sorry about all the links I just included them incase you were under the impression that the way women are treated in those cultures is similar to the treatment of women pre-feminism in the West.)