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Homosexuality in Australia (3 Viewers)

What do you think of homosexuality in Australia?

  • Yes, i strongly support it.

    Votes: 674 48.5%
  • I somewhat support it.

    Votes: 201 14.5%
  • No opinion

    Votes: 182 13.1%
  • I do not support it.

    Votes: 334 24.0%

  • Total voters
    1,391

*Ninny-mole*

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sam04u said:
It's hard to accept something which conflicts with your ideals, but sometimes you must.
I have accepted homosexuality and the prospect of gay marriages - you have not...so what the hell is your point. And that whole it's a natural thing in an unnatural environment...what does that mean? And what does that make heterosexuality? An unnatural thing in a natural world. That is stupid, really really stupid logic.

sam04u said:
Did homosexual dinosaur's exist? Can you show me a natural occurence of 'Homosexuality'?
If you're arguing that Homosexuality is a natural process then you're wrong, It's been proven through experimentation that it only occurs when the natural environment is changed.
Maybe homosexual dinosaur's did exist? Can you prove they didn't? And what exactly are you saying about how homosexuality occurs? You don't make sense. This is illogical. "It only occurswhen the natural environment is changed"... uh, no it doesn't. You are 100% wrong.
 

sam04u

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Optophobia said:
But then you wouldn't be around and we enjoy having you so much on planet earth.
I hate to dissapoint you but, I'm not a homosexual. Also, I'm enjoyed? I thought people hate what I dish-out. (reality).
 

Optophobia

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sam04u said:
and we would be 'better off' if homosexuals didn't exist.
But then you wouldn't be around and we enjoy having you so much on planet earth.
 

ur_inner_child

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sam04u said:
Oh, this is where they're taken out of their natural environment and put into zoo's. (they're taken out of their natural environment). It's exactly what I was saying earlier.
Wrong

I found it

From link:

Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate
James Owen in London
for National Geographic News
July 23, 2004

Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. So go the lyrics penned by U.S. songwriter Cole Porter.

Porter, who first hit it big in the 1920s, wouldn't risk parading his homosexuality in public. In his day "the birds and the bees" generally meant only one thing—sex between a male and female.

But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.

Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.

Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests, and even raise foster chicks.

Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)

The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.

"The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."

Well, perhaps, in a roundabout way, they are seeking males, suggests primatologist Amy Parish.

She argues that female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success. Parish says, "Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another female—if it leads to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner, that could directly impact your reproductive success."

Sexual Gratification

On the other hand, they could just be enjoying themselves, suggests Paul Vasey, animal behavior professor at the University of Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada. "They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable," he says. "They just like it. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff."

Matthew Grober, biology professor at Georgia State University, agrees, saying, "If [sex] wasn't fun, we wouldn't have any kids around. So I think that maybe Japanese macaques have taken the fun aspect of sex and really run with it."

The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual. Frans de Waal, author of Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, calls the species a "make love, not war" primate. He believes bonobos use sex to resolve conflicts between individuals.

Other animals appear to go through a homosexual phase before they become fully mature. For instance, male dolphin calves often form temporary sexual partnerships, which scientists believe help to establish lifelong bonds. Such sexual behavior has been documented only relatively recently. Zoologists have been accused of skirting round the subject for fear of stepping into a political minefield.

"There was a lot of hiding of what was going on, I think, because people were maybe afraid that they would get into trouble by talking about it," notes de Waal. Whether it's a good idea or not, it's hard not make comparisons between humans and other animals, especially primates. The fact that homosexuality does, after all, exist in the natural world is bound to be used against people who insist such behavior is unnatural.

In the U.S., in particular, the moral debate over this issue rages on. Many on the religious right regard homosexuality as a sin. And only this month, President Bush vowed to continue his bid to ban gay marriages after the Senate blocked the proposal.

Already, cases of animal homosexuality have been cited in successful court cases brought against states like Texas, where gay sex was, until recently, illegal.

Yet scientists say we should be wary of referring to animals when considering what's acceptable in human society. For instance, infanticide, as practiced by lions and many other animals, isn't something people, gay or straight, generally approve of in humans.

Human Homosexuality

So how far can we go in using animals to help us understand human homosexuality? Robin Dunbar is a professor of evolutionary psychology at the University of Liverpool, England. "The bottom line is that anything that happens in other primates, and particularly other apes, is likely to have strong evolutionary continuity with what happens in humans," he said.

Dunbar says the bonobo's use of homosexual activity for social bonding is a possible example, adding, "One of the main arguments for human homosexual behavior is that it helps bond male groups together, particularly where a group of individuals are dependent on each other, as they might be in hunting or warfare."

For instance, the Spartans, in ancient Greece, encouraged homosexuality among their elite troops. "They had the not unreasonable belief that individuals would stick by and make all efforts to rescue other individuals if they had a lover relationship," Dunbar added.

Another suggestion is that homosexuality is a developmental phase people go through. He said, "This is similar to the argument of play in young animals to get their brain and muscles to work effectively and together. Off the back of this, there's the possibility you can get individuals locked into this phase for the rest of their lives as a result of the social environment they grow up in."

But he adds that homosexuality doesn't necessarily have to have a function. It could be a spin-off or by-product of something else and in itself carries no evolutionary weight."

He cites sexual gratification, which encourages procreation, as an example. "An organism is designed to maximize its motivational systems," he adds.

In other words, if the urge to have sex is strong enough it may spill over into nonreproductive sex, as suggested by the actions of the bonobos and macaques. However, as Dunbar admits, there's a long way to go before the causes of homosexuality in humans are fully understood.

He said, "Nobody's really investigated this issue thoroughly, because it's so politically sensitive. It's fair to say all possibilities are still open."
 
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Not-That-Bright said:
Becuase governments serve the people that elect them, and incase you havent noticed the homo-loving labor party isnt in power.

edit: and never will be probably in our lifetime
 
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sam04u

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*Ninny-mole* said:
I have accepted homosexuality and the prospect of gay marriages - you have not...so what the hell is your point. And that whole it's a natural thing in an unnatural environment...what does that mean? And what does that make heterosexuality? An unnatural thing in a natural world. That is stupid, really really stupid logic.


Maybe homosexual dinosaur's did exist? Can you prove they didn't? And what exactly are you saying about how homosexuality occurs? You don't make sense. This is illogical. "It only occurswhen the natural environment is changed"... uh, no it doesn't. You are 100% wrong.
Okay, I'm 100% right, but I'll elaborate to help you understand. A female dog is locked in a cell with only one other female dog. Soon they will become aroused by one another and resort in masturbation or mutual-masturbation. Evidence of this is prisons where an EXTREME change in environment takes place, and as a result an astounding number of people 'become' homosexual. Unless you want to suggest they were 'born homosexual', which is another stupid thing you could say. That would be saying 'homosexuals' are more likely to commit crimes... (would you say that?)

I'm 100% right on this issue, whether you will make the compromise and accept it or not. I'm ALL FOR THE RIGHTS of homosexuals. Get that into your head, and quit arguing where you're wrong.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Did homosexual dinosaur's exist?
I don't know, maybe. But even if they didn't, did muslim dinosaurs exist? or dinosaurs that wear clothes?

Can you show me a natural occurence of 'Homosexuality'?
Well can you explain to me what you mean by 'natural'? You seem to be using the word as a replacement for 'normal' but that's not how I usually use the word.

I agree sex only needs to take place ONCE in our lifetime, but sexual attraction needs to take place most of our lifetime.
You don't need to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex to actually have sex with them. Also, with science these days you don't even need to have sex.

(Lesbian get pregnant in other ways.)
Right. Donor sperm from friends.

You did not answer properly, how can someone who does not find interest in the opposite sex reproduce?
Well I don't think I need to answer the 'how', seeing as you seem to accept that they do. Tho I do know the how also ;)

If you're arguing that Homosexuality is a natural process then you're wrong
I'm not necessarily arguing that it is the result of genetics, tho I do believe that probably does have somewhat to do with it. What I'm mainly arguing about is that it doesn't matter even if it isn't natural because the big fear you've described (that our population will disappear) simply isn't true. Humans do alot of things which some may claim aren't 'natural' (usually being used in place of normal), but we don't see them as wrong just because of that.

Becuase governments serve the people that elect them, and incase you havent noticed the homo-loving labor party isnt in power.
Oh ok, doesn't this have some ramifications for your views on abortion?
 
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Optophobia said:
Sam04u, it's time........ its TIME TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET BABY.

Come on, stand up and say "I'M HERE... I'M QUEER" Do it baby, do it.
Hating gays isnt the same as being one. I hate gays becuase they're annoying pricks who clout the public agenda with their marriage crap and they're tied in with all the leftie scumbag socialists, abortionists and feminists, I actually have nothing against homosexuals per se, heh their loss, my woman gain =)
 
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ur_inner_child

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sam04u said:
Okay, I'm 100% right, but I'll elaborate to help you understand
You're not 100% right, read the damn article.

WILD ANIMAL homosexuality is talked about
 

sam04u

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ur_inner_child said:
Wrong

I found it

From link:
Please quit proving your stupidity by providing me with links that actually agree to what I'm saying.

The article you posted: In other words, if the urge to have sex is strong enough it may spill over into nonreproductive sex, as suggested by the actions of the bonobos and macaques. However, as Dunbar admits, there's a long way to go before the causes of homosexuality in humans are fully understood
 

ur_inner_child

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Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests, and even raise foster chicks.

Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)

The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.

"The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."
....
 

goldendawn

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sam04u said:
Please quit proving your stupidity by providing me with links that actually agree to what I'm saying.
It actually disproves what you're saying. Bonobo's in their natural habitat regularly engage in homosexual behaviour, and some wild ostriches are attracted only to individuals of the same sex.
 

sam04u

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sam04u said:
Okay, I'm 100% right, but I'll elaborate to help you understand. A female dog is locked in a cell with only one other female dog. Soon they will become aroused by one another and resort in masturbation or mutual-masturbation. Evidence of this is prisons where an EXTREME change in environment takes place, and as a result an astounding number of people 'become' homosexual. Unless you want to suggest they were 'born homosexual', which is another stupid thing you could say. That would be saying 'homosexuals' are more likely to commit crimes... (would you say that?)

I'm 100% right on this issue, whether you will make the compromise and accept it or not. I'm ALL FOR THE RIGHTS of homosexuals. Get that into your head, and quit arguing where you're wrong.
for emphasis.
 

Not-That-Bright

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What you don't see tho, Steph, is that by observing these animals in the wild... they have been affected by an 'un-natural' process, thus making them susceptible to becoming gay.

Hating gays isnt the same as being one. I hate gays becuase they're annoying pricks who clout the public agenda with their marriage crap and they're tied in with all the leftie scumbag socialists, abortionists and feminists, I actually have nothing against fudgepackers per se, heh their loss, my woman gain =)
I find it interesting how the argument against gays is often targetted to male gays and not females.
 
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ur_inner_child

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sam04u said:
Please quit proving your stupidity by providing me with links that actually agree to what I'm saying.
No need for that abuse please
 

sam04u

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Optophobia said:
How do you explain people becoming gay when they have never been in isolation or gaol.
It's to do with the environment, they may be 'influenced' by particular things in todays society, which leads to it. Nobody is 'born a homosexual.', I've also seen 'animals' that eat shit, therefore humans should too right? Bonobos, well it does seem like as 'nolanistic would say' some pseudo-science crap which national geographic uses to 'gain an audiesnce', but it isn't as breakthrough as the other scientific research and evidence. (Like environment in prisons where a direct link can be made).
 

Not-That-Bright

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Really?

I don't particularly like gay activists, to me it's a minor issue and they're often overly flamboyant and annoying. I don't particularly like feminists (at least those who like to call themselves such a word often, or womyn), I think they're overbaring and a little unfair to men. I'm not the biggest fan of socialism either....

But Nazi's over them? :|

It's to do with the environment, they may be 'influenced' by particular things in todays society, which leads to it.
Well perhaps but surely it also has to do with the way our biology has allowed us to get sexual gratification from almost anything. I also really don't see the point of this argument... I mean, to me, human society is a part of 'nature' and if it isn't we already do alot of things which seem quite odd compared with other species.
 
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Optophobia

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Not-That-Bright said:
Really?

I don't particularly like gay activists, to me it's a minor issue and they're often overly flamboyant and annoying. I don't particularly like feminists (at least those who like to call themselves such a word often, or womyn), I think they're overbaring and a little unfair to men. I'm not the biggest fan of socialism either....
|
Is that what that "womyn's room" shit at UWS is about?

That's it.. I'm bombarding the room with "make my dinner bitch" flyers.
 

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Not-That-Bright said:
Really?

I don't particularly like gay activists, to me it's a minor issue and they're often overly flamboyant and annoying. I don't particularly like feminists (at least those who like to call themselves such a word often, or womyn), I think they're overbaring and a little unfair to men. I'm not the biggest fan of socialism either....

But Nazi's over them? :|.
Sadly yes.
 

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Everyone, calm down. Sam, try and read what is before your eyes before you try and trumpet your own supposed superiority.
 

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