Homosexuality in Australia (4 Viewers)

[skip89]

Are you implying that people have to be religious to have morals? That's extremely offensive. Furthermore, rape, murder etc. are choices, not sexualities we are born with. I don't see homosexuality as a moral issue. You do. Why is that?

I just dont see the point of following morals and virtues if we are just animals.
Animals can not be guilty of murder, or cruelty or adultery. At what point did we develop a conscience, a sense of right and wrong?
And i would have thought it'd be bleeding obvious as to why i see homosexuality as a moral issue.

 

[dagwoman]

We are just animals, but as I've said, we're further evolved. I don't know at what point we developed a conscience, but the fact is, we have.

I don't think it's "bleeding obvious" how homosexuality is a moral issue, and you are yet to provide any evidence for why it is.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I just dont see the point of following morals and virtues if we are just animals.
Animals can not be guilty of murder, or cruelty or adultery. At what point did we develop a conscience, a sense of right and wrong?
And i would have thought it'd be bleeding obvious as to why i see homosexuality as a moral issue.

I too would like to see how homosexuality is a moral issue.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

And i would have thought it'd be bleeding obvious as to why i see homosexuality as a moral issue.

Homosexuality in its self? As in "Is homosexuality a good thing?"

 

[skip89]

Its hard to respect an argument that is in disagreement with an issue soley because their religion disagrees with it.

Particularly if their religion is some sort of Christianity, where we are all sinners, and such "disagreement" is a personal matter (that you do not become homosexual yourself), not something you condemn and judge others for.

You dont have to be God to advise someone on morlity. It just means you might be wrong, which i might be.
My religion does not just say homosexuality is wrong and leave it at that.
Also, i never said homosexuals go straight to hell for being homosexual.
my religion views homosexuality in the same light as womanisng, paedophilia, and really any permission of the will offending chastity.
That is why I, MYSELF, ME see homosexuality as a moral issue,

 

[Se!zuRe.]

on this subject of homosexuality as a moral issue morals are based on your concepts of wat is right and wat is wrong.. if u are in fact a homosexual than u will see nothing wrong with being a homosexual or partkaing in the acts that follow.. this is then seen as moral by the individual... although others who arent a homosexual and do see homosexuality as being in same way "wrong" then they have a right to call it immoral based just own their own concepts of morality...

as for me not bothering to read the title i read a post b4 stating that the topic was gay marriage so simply making a reference to that as i was not to sure WTF we were discussing... as for ur own opinions dagwoman i may have been wrong i guess u are jsut a firm believer in ur own opinions and will defend them to the death xD

 

[dagwoman]

You dont have to be God to advise someone on morlity. It just means you might be wrong, which i might be.
My religion does not just say homosexuality is wrong and leave it at that.
Also, i never said homosexuals go straight to hell for being homosexual.
my religion views homosexuality in the same light as womanisng, paedophilia, and really any permission of the will offending chastity.

What does your religion say about homosexuality?

As for the last line, do you not see something wrong with placing womanising and paedophilia on the same level as the consensual sex between two people who happen to be of the same sex?

And please provide evidence for why homosexuality is a moral issue.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Also, i never said homosexuals go straight to hell for being homosexual.
my religion views homosexuality in the same light as womanisng, paedophilia, and really any permission of the will offending chastity.

Sex before marriage?

And to NTB, liger's and mules do not have the capacity to reproduce. Homosexuals do.
And i have acknowledged time and time again the theological roots to my beliefs

Er yes... I'm aware of that.

If you wanna have a good discussion, I think you could help by quoting some of what I've said and then responding to it? The quote tags are [ quote ][ /quote ] without the spaces

 

[ur_inner_child]

You dont have to be God to advise someone on morlity. It just means you might be wrong, which i might be.

If you could be wrong, who are you to assert your ideals on anyone?
Why should you tell people how to live their life and who they should love?

My religion does not just say homosexuality is wrong and leave it at that.

If you're going to leave it at that, then don't bring up religion as your evidence again.

Also, i never said homosexuals go straight to hell for being homosexual.

I don't think anyone has suggested that

my religion views homosexuality in the same light as womanisng, paedophilia, and really any permission of the will offending chastity.

You still have failed to explain why homosexuality is a moral issue.

That is why I, MYSELF, ME see homosexuality as a moral issue,

What I am trying to gather from you is WHY it is wrong in a moral sense, which you have not expressed yet.

 

[Se!zuRe.]

What does your religion say about homosexuality?

As for the last line, do you not see something wrong with placing womanising and paedophilia on the same level as the consensual sex between two people who happen to be of the same sex?

And please provide evidence for why homosexuality is a moral issue.

i dont understand wat evidence u need as to whether its a moral issues corrrect me im wrong (which i prob will be ) but isnt a moral issue based on peoples concepts of ethics and wat is in fact 'right or wrong', and if this is the case people have different views on morality and morals are based on ones own concepts, so i dont seee how homosexuality culdnt be a moral issue..

 

[ur_inner_child]

i dont understand wat evidence u need as to whether its a moral issues corrrect me im wrong (which i prob will be ) but isnt a moral issue based on peoples concepts of ethics and wat is in fact 'right or wrong', and if this is the case people have different views on morality and morals are based on ones own concepts, so i dont seee how homosexuality culdnt be a moral issue..

If it was a moral issue, you would be able to explain why it is a moral issue.

eg: Killing is a moral issue

WHY?

Because it takes the life of someone and no one has the right to take that life away.

not

"because my religion says so"

 

[KFunk]

The only decent rebukes to my arguments have been from KFunk.
He is right. Without my religious beliefs i would have no problem with sexuality whatsoever.

I would also have no problem with rape, murder, paedophilia, stealing and polygamy.
Because hey, we are just animals.

You seem to argue that you can't find a basis for morality without god/religion. I personally feel that an athiest ethic is definately possible. I would type my thoughts here but I've already expressed myself on page 247 of the 'does god exist?' thread (follow the link if you're interested / want to rebut my dodgy claims). In some ways using religion as the basis of morality seems like a 'lower' level of morality because it leads people to engage in actions because they were commanded to do so, rather than because they have done some soul searching and believe the action to be 'right'.

EDIT: Bad spelling

 

[Se!zuRe.]

What I am trying to gather from you is WHY it is wrong in a moral sense, which you have not expressed yet.

morals are based on ur own conscience and ur own sets of beliefs right, as well at wat u concieve as right and wrong.. if u do believe that homosexuality is wrong than that is ur moral beliefs on homosexuality thus making this a moral issue... u dont need evidence to support ur own beliefs as they are what u think and no one can take that away from u buy saying show me evidence to support ur beliefs... therefore no evidence is required to suggest why this is a moral issue simply asking opinions of why people do believe homosexuality is wrong as i infact do not believe this if someone is a homosexual i am completely fine with that. xD

 

[Se!zuRe.]

not
"because my religion says so"

if u are infact reffering this to me i will just let u know i never once mentioned religion in any form of my arguement.. IMO religion has nothing to do with the concept of whether or not homosexuality is a moral issue or not its just something people follow however religion may somewhat influence peoples views as to the matter of whether homosexuality is right or wrong

 

[Not-That-Bright]

u dont need evidence to support ur own beliefs as they are what u think and no one can take that away from u buy saying show me evidence to support ur beliefs...

So there's no need to justify your moral stance on anything in your opinion? While debates regarding morals are generally unsuccessful at swaying either side, I would argue that people's morals can be changed over time through argument, particularily if we find a basis which we can work with.

I.e. - Person Xbelieves it's immoral to not recycle your garbage.
- This is because they believe that recycling leads to less waste.
- They get presented with evidence that recycling does not lead to less waste.
- Their morals change.

 

[ur_inner_child]

morals are based on ur own conscience and ur own sets of beliefs right, as well at wat u concieve as right and wrong.. if u do believe that homosexuality is wrong than that is ur moral beliefs on homosexuality thus making this a moral issue... u dont need evidence to support ur own beliefs as they are what u think and no one can take that away from u buy saying show me evidence to support ur beliefs... therefore no evidence is required to suggest why this is a moral issue simply asking opinions of why people do believe homosexuality is wrong as i infact do not believe this if someone is a homosexual i am completely fine with that. xD

What?

Unfortunatley this world isn't as tolerant as you would like it to be. Everyone doesn't always accept each other's viewpoints like that. But we can learn to understand by a person's reasoning and justification for their beliefs. I believe that you can change a persons opinion through proper reasoning and justification. I can't see how you cannot understand this.

I am not arguing whether or not this is a moral issue. I am arguing for her reasons why she feels homosexuality is wrong, and all she has come up with is that her religious dictates that it is wrong. To me, this seems foolish and would like for her to come up with another reason. I do not believe that someone who is so assertive that homosexuality is wrong has only one reason for such beliefs.

 

[ur_inner_child]

if u are infact reffering this to me i will just let u know i never once mentioned religion in any form of my arguement.. IMO religion has nothing to do with the concept of whether or not homosexuality is a moral issue or not its just something people follow however religion may somewhat influence peoples views as to the matter of whether homosexuality is right or wrong

I am replying to you but I am referring to skip89 whom you appear to be defending.

 

[Se!zuRe.]

So there's no need to justify your moral stance on anything in your opinion? While debates regarding morals are generally unsuccessful at swaying either side, I would argue that people's morals can be changed over time through argument, particularily if we find a basis which we can work with.

I.e. - Person Xbelieves it's immoral to not recycle your garbage.
- This is because they believe that recycling leads to less waste.
- They get presented with evidence that recycling does not lead to less waste.
- Their morals change.

i completely agreee with what ur saying but i am stating u dont need evidence to back up ur own beliefs although, justifying ur beliefs is acceptable and u read one of my posts i stated that we shuld discuss as to why these are infact our beliefs...xD

 

[Se!zuRe.]

What?

Unfortunatley this world isn't as tolerant as you would like it to be. Everyone doesn't always accept each other's viewpoints like that. But we can learn to understand by a person's reasoning and justification for their beliefs. I believe that you can change a persons opinion through proper reasoning and justification. I can't see how you cannot understand this.

I am not arguing whether or not this is a moral issue. I am arguing for her reasons why she feels homosexuality is wrong, and all she has come up with is that her religious dictates that it is wrong. To me, this seems foolish and would like for her to come up with another reason. I do not believe that someone who is so assertive that homosexuality is wrong has only one reason for such beliefs.

Yer tru about the tolerance and i do agree peoples opinions can be changed but i do believe this is a moral issue and once againt the topic that shuld be discussed is why infact we have these opinions about homosexuality and if nething/neone has influenced this.. if so discuss in what ways we have been influenced and why these opinions are present in us...xD

 

[dagwoman]

"i completely agreee with what ur saying but i am stating u dont need evidence to back up ur own beliefs although, justifying ur beliefs is acceptable and u read one of my posts i stated that we shuld discuss as to why these are infact our beliefs...xD"

What a redundant sentence.

Any good argument requires people to back up their beliefs. Otherwise it's not a worthwhile argument. The end. Back to topic.

skip89, please explain WHY you think homosexuality is immoral.