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Homosexuality in Australia (2 Viewers)

What do you think of homosexuality in Australia?

  • Yes, i strongly support it.

    Votes: 674 48.5%
  • I somewhat support it.

    Votes: 201 14.5%
  • No opinion

    Votes: 182 13.1%
  • I do not support it.

    Votes: 334 24.0%

  • Total voters
    1,391

jhopkins

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what do u mean to homos dont cause trouble to anyone?
isnt there politicians, religious people, us and plenty of other people discussing and using because of them
isnt the fact that such a view could endanger the procreation of men
isnt such a fact that it could endanger the level of morakls and alues are children live in

and by the way animals that do homosexual acts are purely because of their retriction to mate with other animals of the opposite sex.
 

Se!zuRe.

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Dagwomen i just have one question on the situation of animal homosexuality. Now this is serious im not sure if u know or not but i was wondering if animals (besides humans) are neglected or outcast by their species once discovering they are infact homosexuals.... if this isnt the case (which i wuld be surprised if it is) then it just supports my earlier idea that the topic of whether homosexuality is normal or abnormal is only based on peoples opinions on the subject matter, which is influenced by their own sexual preferences
 

Generator

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skip89 said:
I'm saying you can't argue that homosexuality is alright because it happens in other animals and then refer to morality. you have reduced humanity to animals and then referred to what distinguishes us from them.
Ah, but we are animals, it's just that our pack and social systems are far more advanced than those of any creature on this world. As far as I'm concerned, our 'morality' is nothing more than a natural construction that many consider to be 'divine'.
 
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dieburndie

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jhopkins said:
isnt the fact that such a view could endanger the procreation of men
Uh oh! Not the procreation of men!
What would happen then?
If such a view could endanger the procreation of men, I think the Islamic world needs more gays.
 

Se!zuRe.

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ur_inner_child said:
You give nothing to the argument except that it's wrong and that is all.

Back up your statements.
ZING.!!! <3 although statements can be based purely on opinions im not sure who or wat ur referring to unless of course they are making statements on the behalf of the population, other than themselves =p
 

ur_inner_child

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jhopkins said:
what do u mean to homos dont cause trouble to anyone?
isnt there politicians, religious people, us and plenty of other people discussing and using because of them
How is that trouble?

isnt the fact that such a view could endanger the procreation of men
Do you believe in protected sex and contraception? Because that too endangers the procreation of men.


isnt such a fact that it could endanger the level of morakls and alues are children live in
By endanger you mean change. Again, why are some morals and values mutable and this one isn't? Does a child even know about sexual orientation at a small age? How different would a child percieve her upbringers if they were a single mother and her sister instead of a female homosexual couple?

and by the way animals that do homosexual acts are purely because of their retriction to mate with other animals of the opposite sex.
You sound so confident in your answer about homosexuality in animals. Daresay more confident than the scientists who dedicate their lives to finding the reason for their behaviour. Could you please supply us with a source?
 

Se!zuRe.

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ur inner child i have one quick Question on ur idea of being raised with a single mother and older sister... i was wondering if this wuld infact affect the childs upbringing and physcolgcially hinder the sexual preferences of the child in adulthood...? for example a young male raised with his older sister and mothers guidance and possibly be educated as to men by his sister and be dressed as a girl, be used to test make-up etc... just wondering if this might make the young boy become more feminine and possibly lead to homosexuality?
 

jhopkins

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so ur saying the amount of time politicians have to spend on deciding whtyher homoseul marrigaes are right could not be used in mayb e more imporatnat and relevanrt issues suchas war poverty and the countries economical status.

tyhee values of a person are inflicted by his parent, faily ans on.
if a child is brought up aMONGST HOMOSEXUALS HELL BELIEVE IT AS RUIGHT, IF Achild is broguth up byu a sister and a single mother, it mweans that family can still tell him that a man and a woman is the right thing. role models are about values about gendser, the gender of the role model is unimportant. single mother, family, brother or sisters, if they are not gay the child will learn not to be gay
 

ur_inner_child

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Se!zuRe. said:
ur inner child i have one quick Question on ur idea of being raised with a single mother and older sister... i was wondering if this wuld infact affect the childs upbringing and physcolgcially hinder the sexual preferences of the child in adulthood...? for example a young male raised with his older sister and mothers guidance and possibly be educated as to men by his sister and be dressed as a girl, be used to test make-up etc... just wondering if this might make the young boy become more feminine and possibly lead to homosexuality?
I've never had the confidence to come up with my idea of what causes homosexuality. Living in particular places, going to a music institution and working at Oxford St in the past, the more homosexual people I meet or befriend, the more hazy my idea of its cause becomes.

Are you asking me if a boy was raised by his mother and mother's sister, and if they got him to wear girls clothes and wear makeup if he'd grow up to be a homosexual? Well I could see how he could possibly get warped, but I don't see how this could guarantee that he will become gay.

Especially if you consider the idea of gender as a construct: girls are socially conditioned to be modest, pink, dainty, look pretty. Boys are socially conditioned to be loud, bold, blue, do aggressive sports, never cry. These are social conditions that some are not necessarily engrained into our genes. When asking such questions, you must consider what is a social construct and what is in fact genetic. Wearing makeup and wearing a dress doesn't necessarily boost your estrogen levels, so I'm going have to say no.
 

Se!zuRe.

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ur_inner_child said:
I've never had the confidence to come up with my idea of what causes homosexuality. Living in particular places, going to a music institution and working at Oxford St in the past, the more homosexual people I meet or befriend, the more hazy my idea of its cause becomes.

Are you asking me if a boy was raised by his mother and mother's sister, and if they got him to wear girls clothes and wear makeup if he'd grow up to be a homosexual? Well I could see how he could possibly get warped, but I don't see how this could guarantee that he will become gay.

Especially if you consider the idea of gender as a construct: girls are socially conditioned to be modest, pink, dainty, look pretty. Boys are socially conditioned to be loud, bold, blue, do aggressive sports, never cry. These are social conditions that some are not necessarily engrained into our genes. When asking such questions, you must consider what is a social construct and what is in fact genetic. Wearing makeup and wearing a dress doesn't necessarily boost your estrogen levels, so I'm going have to say no.
iight cool thanx for the reply and just to clarify i wasnt just like saying he will have boosted eostrogen levels just stating that possibly physcologically have an impact on his perceptions of the opposite sex... xD
 

ur_inner_child

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jhopkins said:
so ur saying the amount of time politicians have to spend on deciding whtyher homoseul marrigaes are right could not be used in mayb e more imporatnat and relevanrt issues suchas war poverty and the countries economical status.
That's not the fault of homosexuals. If people just accepted homosexuality as a human condition rather than some perverted fetish, and moved marriage soley to the church, then perhaps we could get on with "more important issues". Just because the government chooses to dwell on such matters does not mean that it causes trouble. Women voters caused much of a stir, but it does not mean that it should be warranted as trouble to be disregarded.

tyhee values of a person are inflicted by his parent, faily ans on.
if a child is brought up aMONGST HOMOSEXUALS HELL BELIEVE IT AS RUIGHT, IF Achild is broguth up byu a sister and a single mother, it mweans that family can still tell him that a man and a woman is the right thing. role models are about values about gendser, the gender of the role model is unimportant. single mother, family, brother or sisters, if they are not gay the child will learn not to be gay
Why do you feel that gay couples will encourage their children to be gay? I believe if you are a loving parents, you will accept your child's orientation, especially if you are gay and your child is straight.

Again you are worried that children will believe that homosexuality is right. What exactly is "wrong" about homosexuality? And before you say anal sex is wrong like you did before, I'll repeat that anal sex is not exclusive to homosexuals.

If your idea that homosexuality is wrong because such coupling does not result to children, then does the coupling of infertile couples worry you?
 

dagwoman

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jhopkins, I find your views extremely bigoted and uninformed, and I cannot bring myself to bother arguing with you (and other people have already very eloquently begun to do so for me- thanks guys!) about them as it will gain nothing, so I'll reply only to your comment on animals. The incidence of homosexuality in animals has NOTHING to do with whether or not the opposite sex is around. Even when the opposite sex is around, they still exhibit homosexual behaviour.
 

Se!zuRe.

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dagwomen can u plz answer my question on the homosexuality of animals i think its on the previous page kta xD
 

dagwoman

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No, homosexual animals are not outcast by their flock/group etc.
 

Se!zuRe.

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ur_inner_child said:
Why do you feel that gay couples will encourage their children to be gay? I believe if you are a loving parents, you will accept your child's orientation, especially if you are gay and your child is straight.
i strongly agree with this point cause even if u do indeed have gay parents they most definately accept ur sexual preferences without thinking twice (once again in most cases :p) This is strongly due to the fact that most gays when first "coming out" do have a difficult time getting their parents to understand and accept this about them and they would not wish to put the same strain and pressure on their own kids that they went through...
 
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ur_inner_child

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I've posted this before but

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate
James Owen in London
for National Geographic News
July 23, 2004

Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. So go the lyrics penned by U.S. songwriter Cole Porter.

Porter, who first hit it big in the 1920s, wouldn't risk parading his homosexuality in public. In his day "the birds and the bees" generally meant only one thing—sex between a male and female.

But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.

Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.

Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests, and even raise foster chicks.

Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)

The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.

"The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."

Well, perhaps, in a roundabout way, they are seeking males, suggests primatologist Amy Parish.

She argues that female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success. Parish says, "Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another female—if it leads to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner, that could directly impact your reproductive success."

Sexual Gratification

On the other hand, they could just be enjoying themselves, suggests Paul Vasey, animal behavior professor at the University of Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada. "They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable," he says. "They just like it. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff."

Matthew Grober, biology professor at Georgia State University, agrees, saying, "If [sex] wasn't fun, we wouldn't have any kids around. So I think that maybe Japanese macaques have taken the fun aspect of sex and really run with it."

The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual. Frans de Waal, author of Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, calls the species a "make love, not war" primate. He believes bonobos use sex to resolve conflicts between individuals.

Other animals appear to go through a homosexual phase before they become fully mature. For instance, male dolphin calves often form temporary sexual partnerships, which scientists believe help to establish lifelong bonds. Such sexual behavior has been documented only relatively recently. Zoologists have been accused of skirting round the subject for fear of stepping into a political minefield.

"There was a lot of hiding of what was going on, I think, because people were maybe afraid that they would get into trouble by talking about it," notes de Waal. Whether it's a good idea or not, it's hard not make comparisons between humans and other animals, especially primates. The fact that homosexuality does, after all, exist in the natural world is bound to be used against people who insist such behavior is unnatural.

In the U.S., in particular, the moral debate over this issue rages on. Many on the religious right regard homosexuality as a sin. And only this month, President Bush vowed to continue his bid to ban gay marriages after the Senate blocked the proposal.

Already, cases of animal homosexuality have been cited in successful court cases brought against states like Texas, where gay sex was, until recently, illegal.

Yet scientists say we should be wary of referring to animals when considering what's acceptable in human society. For instance, infanticide, as practiced by lions and many other animals, isn't something people, gay or straight, generally approve of in humans.

Human Homosexuality

So how far can we go in using animals to help us understand human homosexuality? Robin Dunbar is a professor of evolutionary psychology at the University of Liverpool, England. "The bottom line is that anything that happens in other primates, and particularly other apes, is likely to have strong evolutionary continuity with what happens in humans," he said.

Dunbar says the bonobo's use of homosexual activity for social bonding is a possible example, adding, "One of the main arguments for human homosexual behavior is that it helps bond male groups together, particularly where a group of individuals are dependent on each other, as they might be in hunting or warfare."

For instance, the Spartans, in ancient Greece, encouraged homosexuality among their elite troops. "They had the not unreasonable belief that individuals would stick by and make all efforts to rescue other individuals if they had a lover relationship," Dunbar added.

Another suggestion is that homosexuality is a developmental phase people go through. He said, "This is similar to the argument of play in young animals to get their brain and muscles to work effectively and together. Off the back of this, there's the possibility you can get individuals locked into this phase for the rest of their lives as a result of the social environment they grow up in."

But he adds that homosexuality doesn't necessarily have to have a function. It could be a spin-off or by-product of something else and in itself carries no evolutionary weight."

He cites sexual gratification, which encourages procreation, as an example. "An organism is designed to maximize its motivational systems," he adds.

In other words, if the urge to have sex is strong enough it may spill over into nonreproductive sex, as suggested by the actions of the bonobos and macaques. However, as Dunbar admits, there's a long way to go before the causes of homosexuality in humans are fully understood.

He said, "Nobody's really investigated this issue thoroughly, because it's so politically sensitive. It's fair to say all possibilities are still open."
I don't particularly like bringing up the animal argument in this debate, because it usually brings up points that require me to delve for other souces, but it is very interesting nevertheless.
 

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dagwoman said:
No, homosexual animals are not outcast by their flock/group etc.
Didnt think so, so this once again supports my theories as to normal and abnormal activities xD
 

skip89

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I can never reach a consensus with you dagwoman so long as you view morality as (correct me if i'm wrong but this is the impression i got) merely an advancement in beastial instinct. I believe that there is an infinite gulf between actions dictated solely by instinct (as the case with homosexual animals) and actions which are influenced by morality. I'm against homosexuality. You are for it. We'll have to agree to disagree. None of this has anything specifically to do with homosexuality in Australia.
 

Se!zuRe.

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skip89 said:
I can never reach a consensus with you dagwoman so long as you view morality as (correct me if i'm wrong but this is the impression i got) merely an advancement in beastial instinct. I believe that there is an infinite gulf between actions dictated solely by instinct (as the case with homosexual animals) and actions which are influenced by morality. I'm against homosexuality. You are for it. We'll have to agree to disagree. None of this has anything specifically to do with homosexuality in Australia.
agree to disagree....?? uve let me down skippy
 

dagwoman

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skip89 said:
I can never reach a consensus with you dagwoman so long as you view morality as (correct me if i'm wrong but this is the impression i got) merely an advancement in beastial instinct. I believe that there is an infinite gulf between actions dictated solely by instinct (as the case with homosexual animals) and actions which are influenced by morality. I'm against homosexuality. You are for it. We'll have to agree to disagree. None of this has anything specifically to do with homosexuality in Australia.
I don't see what morality has to do with it. Why are you against homosexuality? Obviously we've gone off topic, but everyone has. I think it's okay that we're discussing views on homosexuality as a whole rather than specifically homosexuality in Australia.
 

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